Boiled batteries

[grnhs]

Went out to take out my batteries for winter and the boxes were full of fluid and it obviously came from the batteries.
2nd year on 2- 6volt didn't use them much this year, was plugged into power most of the time.
I have a 150 watt zamp on the roof.
Any ideas what might have caused them to boil out?

[Robbbyr]

Originally Posted by grnhs

Went out to take out my batteries for winter and the boxes were full of fluid and it obviously came from the batteries.
2nd year on 2- 6volt didn't use them much this year, was plugged into power most of the time.
I have a 150 watt zamp on the roof.
Any ideas what might have caused them to boil out?

Possible problem with converter overcharging? Possible issue with charge controller for solar? Seems like diagnostic testing of both those items is in order.
Did it boil the batteries dry? If so, you probably need to have the batteries tested to see how damaged they might be.

[Grumpy]

Which model & year? Not all converters are "smart chargers".

[grnhs]

Its a 2016 jayflight 29rks.
No, did not boil dry. I used a Turkey baster to recover acid from the boxes and put back in batteries, rinsed everything off and hooked up to charger in garage, they showed 95%.
So I'm hoping the are not damaged too bad.
They each have taken a charge.
Thanks for the help I will find someone to check the charging systems.

[oldmanAZ]

It seems to me that if the boxes were vented and the batteries were boiled dry, much of the liquid would have been vented. BUT, if the battery cases had leaks, that could fill the boxes with battery acid.

[grnhs]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

It seems to me that if the boxes were vented and the batteries were boiled dry, much of the liquid would have been vented. BUT, if the battery cases had leaks, that could fill the boxes with battery acid.

Thanks oldmanaz, put the acid back in each one and they are not leaking.

[Robbbyr]

Even though your battery charger shows the batteries at 95%, I believe it would be prudent to also have the batteries tested under load. With the electrolyte boiled out but with the overcharging continuing the possibility of damage is very real. The only way to "really" know is to have them further tested.

[grnhs]

Originally Posted by Robbbyr

Even though your battery charger shows the batteries at 95%, I believe it would be prudent to also have the batteries tested under load. With the electrolyte boiled out but with the overcharging continuing the possibility of damage is very real. The only way to "really" know is to have them further tested.

Thanks Robbbyr, I will do that also.

[Mustang65]

If you take the batteries out of the boxes, be careful as the sides of the batteries are contaminated along with the inside of the battery boxes. Use rubber gloves, wear proper eye protection and OLD clothes. You need to clean the exterior of the batteries, inside of the battery boxes and warn anyone that is going to come in contact with them that they need to wear proper gloves also. If you take them into your car/truck make sure you do not let them come in contact with any rugs or metal. If the tops of the plates were exposed to air (acid was below the tops of the plates), the damage may have been done.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[Robbbyr]

Very prudent precautions!

[Cannon]

Clean everything with baking soda and water. That will neutralize the acid.

[grnhs]

The tops of the plates were exposed. Load testing them tomorrow.
Thanks for the precautions, I worked with sulfuric acid for decades, it deserves all the respect you expressed.
Dave

[grnhs]

Both batteries need replacing,
My battery guy said that if one of the cells was bad it would also lead to overcharging.

[krbjmpr]

Just tossing this out there..

Main reasons of batteries leaking:
1) Being overfilled. Bottom of the 'well funnel' is too much. Look here the manufacturer fills the batteries at, quarter inch or so above plates. Going to bottom of funnel reduces expansion space and dilutes the acid. Stick wooden portion of a kitchen match into the fill funnel, see what level is when new. Also check level first thing in morning when bats are coolest. And in afternoon when are hottest. You will be surprised.

2) I hate most solar chargers, particularly those that are on/off vs pwm and most. Why? Most of the time, they and panels are incorrectly sized for the battery bank and the loads. If plugged in, solar may just keep charging. PWM chops up solar power, but does not regulate voltage from panels. MPPT controllers will regulate, but cost so much more. On/off controllers merely connect panels to batteries, and disconnect at high voltage threshold, disconnect at low battery threshold. Think old car generators before alternator became widely used.

3) converter always charging. Most dumb ones are set for 13.6 to 13.8. Float voltage for most manufacturers is 13.2. Not really a big deal, but higher floats cause batteries to use more water. Shouldn't leak, until you overkill batteries.

4) driving with batteries fully charged and connected. You are essentially applying an equalizing voltage to batteries since vehicle alternator throws out 14.5 bolts or so. 14 to 14.5. If coach batteries are charged, now they are being overcharged, and water can be forced out vents especially if being sloshed around from vehicle motion and are overfilled. Many coaches don't have a way to disconnect batteries from vehicle. Charge converter yes, but not vehicle. Especially with trailers.

5) Temperature Variation. Cell fluid level changes with temperature. Water / acid expands at different rate than water alone. If my batteries need to be watered, I check them when they are coldest and fill when are hottest. I try to use water that is same temp as batteries, my distilled jug is kept in battery compartment.

6) using auto fill devices intended for different batteries. Cell adapter is different for gc2 golf cart vs g24 vs g27 battery sized. The latter will put more water into a battery, possibly overfilling it. Not all autowater systems are the same. I prefer those that use gravity fed water for supply vs those that use a pump or garden sprayer.

7) vibration can cause leakage, but from the point of a cell going bad due to Crap building up under the cell. I have my gc2 pair sitting on pe foam inside boxes, and boxes sitting on board mounted with vibration isolators.

Do the above apply to yours? I don't know. I use the same tricks, and I am going on 9 years of a pair of Energizer Golf Carts from Sam's Club. They still test at 180AH (last test, new rated 225) using impedance meter, and about 170AH doing measured discharge with a 10A load to 11.7Volts. 15 hours, applied projects factor, and came up with 170. In winter time, my boxes are insulated and heated (tank heat pads, 12v). In summer time, boxes are cooled using fans, still insulated. Reflectix Mylar has been glued to inside of compartment door, reflects a lot of heat back out.

[KevTev]

I’m not sure the problem of liquid in the battery boxes is from the batteries themselves- my previous 25rks often had rain water getting into the battery boxes! The batteries may have boiled off the water and rain filled the boxes that was not related. Not sure what rain water would do to the batteries, guess it would depend on “air-borne” contaminants.

[carmelk6]

Purchased this RV early this summer. I couldn’t figure out why I could t start the generator unless the coach engine was running. How on earth did this happen?

[Mustang65]

Originally Posted by krbjmpr

Just tossing this out there..


2) I hate most solar chargers, particularly those that are on/off vs pwm and most. Why? Most of the time, they and panels are incorrectly sized for the battery bank and the loads. If plugged in, solar may just keep charging. PWM chops up solar power, but does not regulate voltage from panels. MPPT controllers will regulate, but cost so much more. On/off controllers merely connect panels to batteries, and disconnect at high voltage threshold, disconnect at low battery threshold. Think old car generators before alternator became widely used.

You did not mention which SOLAR panels or charger you are using or discussing, that is causing you this grief. Most of the time.... you get what you pay for. Not sure what brand(s) your are talking about. If there is a mismatch, I would believe that the person putting together their SOLAR package has no clue as to what they are doing. Renogy and the other kit sellers do not seem to have any issues. If a person has no understanding of putting a SOLAR system together from scratch, then they need to stick with the major brand kits. Maybe they under estimate the size system because they do not know how much energy they use. Planning is the first step in SOLAR. Pretty much the only ones that I know of that are encountering issues are those that are trying to run their Residential fridges off of SOLAR and batteries while dry-camping. They have their systems planned so they can add more SOLAR/batteries if needed. Wait, there are some RVers that invest in Chinese inexpensive SOLAR chargers/panels and like I said you get what you pay for.


4) driving with batteries fully charged and connected. You are essentially applying an equalizing voltage to batteries since vehicle alternator throws out 14.5 bolts or so. 14 to 14.5. If coach batteries are charged, now they are being overcharged, and water can be forced out vents especially if being sloshed around from vehicle motion and are overfilled. Many coaches don't have a way to disconnect batteries from vehicle. Charge converter yes, but not vehicle. Especially with trailers.

My truck only hits 14+ volts when it starts up just to replenish the loss from starting the engine or maybe the overnight losses. While driving the battery voltage is at or just under 13 volts. The SOLAR charge controller works in conjunction with the TV's output, but since I am running my fridge off of 110VAC (inverter) while traveling the SOLAR is always pumping out power. You may want to check your TV's battery or connections.

7) vibration can cause leakage, but from the point of a cell going bad due to Crap building up under the cell. I have my gc2 pair sitting on pe foam inside boxes, and boxes sitting on board mounted with vibration isolators.

If properly filled at about 1/8" below the bottom of the filler tube ring, you should have no spilling or acid exiting the battery. At least I don't. I equalize the batteries (using SOLAR) a few times a year or if I have been bringing them down to the 12.2 area more than normal.

They still test at 180AH (last test, new rated 225) using impedance meter, and about 170AH doing measured discharge with a 10A load to 11.7Volts. 15 hours, applied projects factor, and came up with 170.

Here are the results of the battery industry test done on my old Interstate batteries. I got the test requirements from Trojan engineering. The battery has to be brought down to "0" SG which is 10.5 volts for the test. Not recommended to be done on any regular basis, because you are actually killing the battery with each test.

I am sure that most of the other members that have SOLAR or batteries for dry-camping will agree that the points you bring up are not experienced by the majority of RVers here, well let me add one more item to that … those that buy quality products and properly maintain their SOLAR and batteries, do not encounter those points.

Don

My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[JesseS]

Sorry to say but those batteries are more than likely toast. Either the charger in the converter is bad and overcharging (put a meter on the battery while connected or at the charger and check voltage) or its the solar controller if you have one. More than 14.6v (for 2 6v GC batteries in series) on absorption and/or not switching to 13.8 for float will boil the batteries over time. Putting the electrolyte back in the batteries was not good as any dirt/dust/impurities that got mixed in can cause the plates to short out, doesn't take much. Depending on your battery type these voltages may be slightly different. Most stock chargers are not multi-stage smart chargers and charge at a constant 14.6, which over time is bad for your batteries due to the constant charge over days or weeks. I would recommend you switch to a 4-stage 'smart' charger to protect your batteries.

[JesseS]

I will add that I ran those batteries for years with 700+ watts of solar and a MPPT 40A Tracer 4-stage 'smart' controller without issue. I have since switched to LiFePo4 batteries with a Tracer solar Lithium controller and a PD Lithium charger, so far the setup is hands down better than flooded.

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by carmelk6

Purchased this RV early this summer. I couldn’t figure out why I could t start the generator unless the coach engine was running. How on earth did this happen?

'Small' battery explosion?

We had a battery explode for no apparent reason in the engine compartment of one of our city's buses, but it blew apart more of the battery than yours. The hood was closed, thank goodness, the engine idling at the office at night at the end of the day. No one was near the bus so no apparent ignition source for the battery gasses.

Other than a new battery and a thorough cleaning, there were no problems afterward.


It doesn't answer your question, however, just something I experienced.