Can't lock brakes RB195

[skids]

Originally Posted by GrumpyDad

Just as a note, the Ford factory brake controller will not lock the brakes at any adjustment level in most cases. Usually it is possible to lock the brakes with the manual slide.

That's just how the Ford controller works, even on gravel/mud etc, hitting the truck brakes cannot lock the trailer brakes. This is different than most aftermarket controllers.

Yeah, I couldn't lock them up on a dirt road with the manual slider thing even on the max setting.

[Murff]

From an F150 Owners Manual:

Trailer brakes
Electric brakes and manual, automatic or surge-type trailer brakes are
safe if installed properly and adjusted to the manufacturer’s
specifications. The trailer brakes must meet local and Federal
regulations.
WARNING: Do not connect a trailer’s hydraulic brake system
directly to your vehicle’s brake system. Your vehicle may not
have enough braking power and your chances of having a collision
greatly increase.
The braking system of the tow vehicle is rated for operation at the
GVWR not GCWR.
Integrated trailer brake controller (if equipped)
Your vehicle may be equipped with a fully integrated electronic trailer
brake controller (TBC). When used properly, the TBC helps ensure
smooth and effective trailer braking by powering the trailer’s electric
brakes with a proportional output based on the towing vehicle’s brake
pressure.
WARNING: The Ford TBC has only been verified to be
compatible with trailers having electric-actuated drum brakes
(one to four axles) and not hydraulic surge or electric-over-hydraulic
types. It is the responsibility of the customer to ensure that the trailer
brakes are adjusted appropriately, functioning normally and all electric
connections are properly made. Failure to do so may result in loss of
vehicle control, crash or serious injury.
Tires, Wheels and Loading
270
2011 F-150 (f12)
Owners Guide, 3rd Printing
USA (fus)
The TBC user interface consists of
the following:
1. +/- (GAIN adjustment
buttons): Pressing these buttons
adjusts the TBC’s power output to
the trailer brakes (in
0.5 increments). The GAIN setting
can be increased to a maximum of
10.0 or decreased to a minimum of 0 (no trailer braking). Pressing and
holding a button raises or lowers the setting continuously. The gain
setting displays in the message center as follows: TBC GAIN = XX.X.
The trailer brake controller (TBC) is designed to display three items of
information in the instrument cluster message center. These are: gain
setting, output bar graph, and trailer connectivity status. They appear in
the message center as follows:
• TBC GAIN = XX.X NO TRAILER: The instrument cluster message
center displays the current gain setting during a given ignition cycle
and when adjusting the gain. This message is also displayed during
manual activation without a trailer connected or when gain
adjustments are made with no trailer connected.
• TBC GAIN = XX.X OUTPUT = //////: When the vehicle’s brake pedal
is pushed, or when the manual control is activated, bar indicators
illuminate in the instrument cluster message center to indicate the
amount of power going to the trailer brakes relative to the brake pedal
or manual control input. One bar indicates the least amount of output
with six bars indicating maximum output.
• TRAILER CONNECTED: This message is displayed when a correct
trailer wiring connection (a trailer with electric trailer brakes) has
been sensed during a given ignition cycle.
• TRAILER DISCONNECTED: This message is displayed and
accompanied by a single chime, when a trailer connection was
determined and then a disconnection, either intentionally or
unintentionally, has been sensed during a given ignition cycle. It is also
displayed if a truck or trailer wiring fault occurs causing the trailer to
appear disconnected. This message is also displayed during manual
activation without a trailer connected.
1 2
TRAILER BRAKE
- +
Tires, Wheels and Loading
271
2011 F-150 (f12)
Owners Guide, 3rd Printing
USA (fus)
2. Manual control lever: Slide the control lever to the left to activate
power to the trailer’s electric brakes independent of the tow vehicle’s
brakes (see the following Procedure for adjusting GAIN section for
instructions on proper use of this feature). If the manual control is
activated while the brake is also applied, the greater of the two inputs
determines the power sent to the trailer brakes.
• Stop lamps: Activating the TBC manual control lever illuminates both
the trailer brake lamps and the tow vehicle brake lamps except the
center high-mount stop lamp (presuming proper trailer electrical
connection). Pressing the vehicle brake pedal also illuminates both
trailer and vehicle brake lamps.
Procedure for adjusting GAIN:
The GAIN setting is used to set the TBC for the specific towing condition
and should be changed as towing conditions change. Changes to towing
conditions include trailer load, vehicle load, road conditions and weather.
The GAIN should be set to provide the maximum trailer braking
assistance while ensuring the trailer wheels do not lock when braking;
locked trailer wheels may lead to trailer instability.
Note: This should only be performed in a traffic-free environment at
speeds of approximately 20–25 mph (30–40 km/h).
1. Make sure the trailer brakes are in good working condition,
functioning normally and properly adjusted. See your trailer dealer if
necessary.
2. Hook up the trailer and make the electrical connections according to
the trailer manufacturer’s instructions.
3. When a trailer with electric brakes is plugged in, the TRAILER
CONNECTED message displays in the instrument cluster message
center.
4. Use the GAIN adjustment (+/-) buttons to increase or decrease the
GAIN setting to the desired starting point. A GAIN setting of 6.0 is a
good starting point for heavier loads.
5. In a traffic-free environment, tow the trailer on a dry, level surface at
a speed of 20–25 mph (30–40 km/h) and squeeze the manual control
lever completely.
6. If the trailer wheels lock up (indicated by squealing tires), reduce the
GAIN setting; if the trailer wheels turn freely, increase the GAIN setting.
Repeat Steps 5 and 6 until the GAIN setting is at a point just below
trailer wheel lock-up. If towing a heavier trailer, trailer wheel lock-up
may not be attainable even with the maximum GAIN setting of 10.

A Bit more:

Points to Remember:
• Remember to adjust gain setting before using the TBC for the first
time.
• Readjust gain setting on the TBC (according to procedure above)
whenever road, weather and trailer or vehicle loading conditions
change from those that existed when the gain was initially set.
• The sliding lever on the TBC should be used only for manual
activation of trailer brakes to assist with proper adjustment of the
GAIN. Misuse, such as application during trailer sway, could cause
instability of trailer and/or tow vehicle.
• Avoid towing in adverse weather conditions. The TBC does not
provide anti-lock control of the trailer wheels. Trailer wheels can lock
up on slippery surfaces, resulting in reduced stability of trailer and
tow vehicle.
• The TBC is equipped with a feature which reduces output at vehicle
speeds below 11 mph (18 km/h) so trailer and vehicle braking is not
jerky or harsh. This feature is only available when applying the brakes
using the vehicle’s brake pedal, not the TBC.
Tires, Wheels and Loading
273
2011 F-150 (f12)
Owners Guide, 3rd Printing
USA (fus)
• The TBC interacts with the brake system of the vehicle, including
ABS, in order to reduce the likelihood of trailer wheel lock-up;
therefore, if these systems are not functioning properly, the TBC may
not function at full performance.
• Your vehicle’s brake system and the trailer brake system work
independently of each other; changing the GAIN setting on the TBC
does not affect the operation of your vehicle’s brakes whether a trailer
is attached or not.
• When the vehicle is turned off, the TBC output is disabled and the
display is shut down; turning the ignition from off to on awakens the
TBC module.
• The TBC is only a factory- or dealer-installed item; Ford is not
responsible for warranty or performance of the TBC due to misuse or
customer installation.
• Do not attempt removal of the TBC without consulting the
Workshop Manual; damage to the unit may result.

Murff

[tech109]

I had a 2018 GMC sierra do a the same thing with a customers car trailer but when he hooked it up to another truck the trailer brakes locked . So after some diagnosing I found the trailer brake control module in the truck was faulty . After replacing the control module , the brakes on the trailer would lock every time . Just a thought.

[glenlhein]

Originally Posted by skids

Let me put this another way. I need some help. Can any of you owners with an RB195 or Baja trailers lock your brakes on a dirt road? On pavement? If not, how do you adjust gain on your brake controller?

I have a 2018 195rb baja and I can't lock the brakes on pavement. I've never tried in gravel.



When I first got the trailer, the brakes barely did anything. After 500 miles, they finally got some good grab. But still no lockup.

[CampNow]

Originally Posted by Murff

. . . The TBC interacts with the brake system of the vehicle, including ABS, in order to reduce the likelihood of trailer wheel lock-up; therefore, if these systems are not functioning properly, the TBC may not function at full performance . . .

It would be interesting to know how all this is accomplished. It's obvious the ABS/TBC is making two significant assumptions when the truck's ABS activates: 1) the trailer's brakes are adjusted properly, which also assumes 2) the trailer's brakes are actually capable of lock-up (required as per OEM instructions for the proper adjustment of trailer brakes; establish baseline for lock-up, then adjust "just below" lock-up). Since the truck's ABS/TBC had no idea what the trailer's brakes are actually doing (locked-up, near lock-up, under-braking, over-braking, etc.), I question how this system can work effectively and safely under differing conditions and adjustment scenarios.

In any event, it's obvious it's a hit or miss capability based on the disclaimer. I certainly hope there's a way to turn this function off for situations where it's not possible to adjust the trailer's brakes as per OEM instructions (for whatever reason). Based on these trailer braking threads there appears to be a sizeable number of folks who fall into this category.

[GrumpyDad]

Trust me, if you have brake problems, the issue isn't the brake controller.

[oldmanAZ]

If it was me and I was trying figure out if it was either the brakes or the tow vehicle controller, I'd find a gravel road, stop, and pull out the breakaway pin. Either the brakes would lock up on the gravel or they wouldn't. If they didn't, then nothing I could do with the controller would make them lock up.






(Sorry if this was already mentioned. I scanned the topic but didn't see it.)

[CampNow]

Originally Posted by GrumpyDad

Trust me, if you have brake problems, the issue isn't the brake controller.

If you own a late model Ram truck (with an OEM integrated brake controller) and are having braking problems, it could be the controller. A number of these Ram IBC's (mine included) are only capable of producing 8 volts of braking voltage. Some trailers need the full 12 volts for proper braking.

[CampNow]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

If it was me and I was trying figure out if it was either the brakes or the tow vehicle controller, I'd find a gravel road, stop, and pull out the breakaway pin. Either the brakes would lock up on the gravel or they wouldn't. If they didn't, then nothing I could do with the controller would make them lock up.

If you're going to do this make sure the trailer's batteries have an acceptable charge (12.2 - 12.7 volts).

If your trailer does stop satisfactorily with the breakaway pin pulled, keep in mind all the wiring and connectors (and grounds) between the trailer's 7-pin cord and the truck's brake controller are still suspect. If any of these components are defective your brake controller (even if it's operating properly) won't be able to properly brake your trailer.

Although the above is a decent quick and dirty check, if at all possible, I'd suggest purchasing a clamp-on ammeter with DC current capability to initially troubleshoot your trailer's braking system. Although a voltmeter is helpful, a clamp-on ammeter is easier to use (with one-hand, with no need to stick & probe wires), and allows for more definitive troubleshooting. A clamp-on ammeter will help you quickly determine whether you have an electrical or mechanical problem (or both). If your brake controller (BC) is capable of providing 2.8 - 3.0 amps to each brake assembly (which is a good reading with the BC set for maximum "manual" output), then it may be time to pull the brake drums to check for mechanical issues.

[Jmelvin]

Knowing the volts the controller is putting out is almost useless. You need to measure the amps in the trailer brakes circuit. You need about 3.8 amps @13.8volts per brake to get the brakes working. The easiest way to measure it is to get a clamp on DC ampmeter and measure it.
A few years ago I helped a friend of mine who had a four year old trailer at the time, rework his bakes so they would work. When I applied 13.8 volts to the system he only had 3.5 amps flowing through the circuit. I had to cut out every electrical circuit crimp connection and solder and put heat shrink tubing over that to get the brakes to work properly. There were 14 crimp on connections that had to get replaced. Also had to solder the wire into the crimp on connector on the 7 pin connector. Crimp connectors go bad with age. They get wet and allow corrosion to build up. Best way to ensure the brakes are good is to cut out all the crimp connections and solder the wires. Remember 1 ohm of resistance will limit current flow to 12 amps, 2 ohms will limit current flow to 6 amps, which will not make your brakes work right. 2 ohms resistance is almost nothing. You have to have almost prefect connections to make the brakes work as they were designed.
Here in Mississippi it is common place for the State Police to test trailer brakes at the entrances to state parks. They put about 1 inch of sand on the road for about 30 feet and make you apply full trailer brakes while your trailer is crossing the sand. If all of your trailer wheels don't lock up they will give you a ticket, for non functioning brakes. When you get the brakes fixed there is no fine, but they are just trying to show people that they need to check their brakes.

[Ruggybuggy]

Originally Posted by skids

Let me put this another way. I need some help. Can any of you owners with an RB195 or Baja trailers lock your brakes on a dirt road? On pavement? If not, how do you adjust gain on your brake controller?

I can't get my brakes to lock up either on my Dexter 3500lbs axle. Normal.

[ALJO]

Brakes should not lock up under any circumstances because it is dangerous. When checking your Trailer brakes manually there should be a firm amount stopping resistance.
Don't forget it add your TV to the trailer brake system.

[ASTMedic]

Originally Posted by ALJO

Brakes should not lock up under any circumstances because it is dangerous. When checking your Trailer brakes manually there should be a firm amount stopping resistance.
Don't forget it add your TV to the trailer brake system.

But to be sure you're getting the max stopping power out of your trailer brakes you set the controller just shy of lockup. I didn't think anyone was advocating letting them lock up under normal use

[GrumpyDad]

Originally Posted by ASTMedic

But to be sure you're getting the max stopping power out of your trailer brakes you set the controller just shy of lockup. I didn't think anyone was advocating letting them lock up under normal use

That method of setting won't work with many of the new factory brake controllers. It does work work lots of the aftermarket ones though.

Although then again, if you do that setup procedure on dry pavement, you WILL lock up on gravel, snow or in rain . . . . Not ideal.

[ALJO]

ASTmedic: But to be sure you're getting the max stopping power out of your trailer brakes you set the controller just shy of lockup. I didn't think anyone was advocating letting them lock up under normal use

Sure ASTmedic: then with rain they for sure will lockup, but as the expert says.

[BudMor]

I own a 195RB and can confirm that on packed dirt the brakes will not lock as the tire traction is greater then the brake shoe drag. In very lose gravel I could get the tires to slide but that proves nothing at all as far as brake setup. All it proves is your tires on something slippery and have no traction. I set mine so my truck brakes more or less the same way as it does without the trailer on and have not touched the settings for 2 years since. Remember over braking the trailer on wet roads can be just as bad as under braking in the dry.