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Old 08-04-2018, 01:26 PM   #1
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Can't lock brakes RB195

I can not lock brakes on gravel on my RB195. Dexter says,

"Note: Not all trailer brakes are capable of wheel lockup. Loading conditions, brake type, wheel and tire size can all affect whether a brake can lock. It is not generally considered desirable to lock up the brakes and slide the tires. This can cause unwanted flat spotting of the tires and could also result in a loss of control."

I did examine lining recently. I did adjust brakes just prior to the test. I was trying to properly adjust gain on my controller in the F150 ecoboost. The general consensus is to adjust gain so that you can lock the trailer with the manuel control and then back it off one unit. I had it all the way up to 10 and could not lock brakes while going slowly (15 to 20 mph). The trailer will slow down the TT, the brakes will not lock. The brake drums do get hot as a pistol. I backed the gain down to 8.0 from 10 and really didn't notice a difference. I checked the output from the truck at the plug receptacle while gain was at 10 and got 13.56 volts. I checked the ohms of the magnets (parallel circuit at the trailer plug) and got 1.7 ohms which should be normal.

I figured that I had better go with 8.0 on the gain.

What am I missing????
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:26 AM   #2
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Let me put this another way. I need some help. Can any of you owners with an RB195 or Baja trailers lock your brakes on a dirt road? On pavement? If not, how do you adjust gain on your brake controller?
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:32 AM   #3
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I've never been able to get the brakes on our 195RB Baja to lock. I manually adjust the brakes each spring when I repack the bearings then fine tune with the gain on the controller so that when I'm going 30-40 and apply the TV brakes I feel just a slight tug from the trailer. Once stopped when I release the brake pedal the back of the TV lifts up slightly. On my factory controller I'm set for light electric and 7 gain. As long as I can tell that the trailer is braking just a bit more than the TV I've not worried about them being able to completely lock up.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:37 AM   #4
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No on gravel and dirt
And why would I want to
It’s the same effect as locking them up on snow and ice
Yes on pavement.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:40 AM   #5
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I have a 195RB and test my brakes as I leave the driveway.

I get up to 10 or so, put it in neutral and use the manual override. If it slows and stops the car in a reasonable distance all is good for me. I just don't want the trailer pushing me when I am braking.
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Old 08-05-2018, 09:51 AM   #6
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I've heard a number of people say this... but, honestly, having your brakes on at maximum is better than having them lock...




So, if you can turn your controller up to 11 ( little aging-rocker humour there) without locking the wheels, that's as effective as they're going to get.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:24 PM   #7
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Agree you shouldn't be locking up your brakes on pavement for testing purposes or during emergency braking. Bad for the tires and could cause loss of control.

However, IMO if you cannot lock up your brakes on dirt/gravel (in a secluded, safe area, at any speed with your brake controller adjusted to max) your brakes are not operating at 100%. If your brakes are not capable of locking up on dirt/gravel, I believe common sense says they're not capable of performing just under lock-up on pavement---your ideal braking scenario during an emergency stop.

FWIW, our previous trailer was a 5th wheel that we purchased new. It weighed 12k loaded and had four 12" Lippert drum brakes on two, 7k, 8-bolt axles. With the brake controller max'd out (12 volts/3 amps at each brake), yes, you could feel the brakes operating, but they certainly didn't inspire a lot of confidence. Took it to the dealer and they said it was braking "fine". About 6 months (and several thousand miles) later, curiosity got the better of me and I decided to remove the drums to have a look. They were coated in grease---shocked that we had any braking. Got all 4 brake assemblies replaced under warranty (by Lippert). After 25-30 miles "seating" the new brakes, I had no problem locking up the brakes on dirt/gravel with only 5-6 volts of braking voltage. I accidentally locked them up on pavement with only 8 volts of braking voltage. Needless to say, we were disappointed (to put it mildly) that we towed that 5th wheel for those 6 months with inferior, unsafe braking.

Our current Jayco Eagle TT's four brakes will lock up on dirt/gravel with 8 volts of braking voltage.

My two cents . . . YMMV.
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Old 08-06-2018, 09:47 AM   #8
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Thanks to all who offered comments. It would be nice if Dexter or Jayco would state that the braking system is incapable of lock-up for the 195RB, if indeed they are not...
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:12 AM   #9
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We are having the same problem with our 2018 f150. We tried to set up just as recommended by Ford. Set it all the way to 10 and no lock up. We pull an x23b and had no problem with our 2012 f150 that had an after market brake controller. The gain is currently set to 2, the same as our previous truck.
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Old 08-06-2018, 03:08 PM   #10
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. . . I checked the output from the truck at the plug receptacle while gain was at 10 and got 13.56 volts. I checked the ohms of the magnets (parallel circuit at the trailer plug) and got 1.7 ohms which should be normal . . .
Did you make this voltage check (under load) with the trailer's 7-pin connector connected to the truck with the trailer brakes activated?

To rule out electrical problems at each individual brake assembly on the trailer, it's best to check current (with a clamp-on ammeter) at each brake assembly. You should read almost 3 amps (at each brake) with the brake controller set for maximum braking. FWIW, you can read 12 volts of overall braking voltage and still have electrical problems (specifically zero to low current) at an individual brake assembly.
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Old 08-06-2018, 04:38 PM   #11
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Did you make this voltage check (under load) with the trailer's 7-pin connector connected to the truck with the trailer brakes activated?
No, I didn't. The truck was switched on, plug disconnected, meter connected to brake and ground while set on volts, gain at 10. Read over 1 volts with brake fully set.

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To rule out electrical problems at each individual brake assembly on the trailer, it's best to check current (with a clamp-on ammeter) at each brake assembly. You should read almost 3 amps (at each brake) with the brake controller set for maximum braking. FWIW, you can read 12 volts of overall braking voltage and still have electrical problems (specifically zero to low current) at an individual brake assembly.
I don't have a clamp-on ammeter. I would have to buy one or put mine in series with the brake wire. I really hate to separate the connector to do that. That is why I checked ohms from the trailer plug (which checks out). I hear you though. Checking braking amps is the only way to assure that the current is making it to each brake.
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Old 08-06-2018, 05:40 PM   #12
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. . . I don't have a clamp-on ammeter. I would have to buy one or put mine in series with the brake wire. I really hate to separate the connector to do that. That is why I checked ohms from the trailer plug (which checks out). I hear you though. Checking braking amps is the only way to assure that the current is making it to each brake.
Here's a $25 clamp-on ammeter on Amazon that will also measure DC current. Pretty good bang for the buck. Reviews look decent. Lot more uses for this meter beyond checking your trailer brakes
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Old 08-06-2018, 06:30 PM   #13
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Just as a note, the Ford factory brake controller will not lock the brakes at any adjustment level in most cases. Usually it is possible to lock the brakes with the manual slide.

That's just how the Ford controller works, even on gravel/mud etc, hitting the truck brakes cannot lock the trailer brakes. This is different than most aftermarket controllers.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:08 PM   #14
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Just as a note, the Ford factory brake controller will not lock the brakes at any adjustment level in most cases. Usually it is possible to lock the brakes with the manual slide.

That's just how the Ford controller works, even on gravel/mud etc, hitting the truck brakes cannot lock the trailer brakes. This is different than most aftermarket controllers.
If this is the case, how does the Ford factory brake controller sense when the trailer's wheels/tires/brakes are about to lock up?

The function you're describing sounds suspiciously like an anti-lock brake system (ABS). This would require the installation of sensors on the trailer to tell the Ford factory brake controller to limit braking when the wheels/tires are about to lock-up.
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Old 08-07-2018, 05:33 AM   #15
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I'm not able to lock the brakes in our 377RLBH in the gravel, but its a 15000 lb trailer. Some say why would you want to do that, and that's how I've always set the brakes: fully slide the override, then back off the gain to just under what it took to lock them up.

When testing my Ram, I was having issues seeing any voltage at all at the trailer connector in my truck bed when using the over-ride slider at 100 percent. Apparently, the truck needs to see some resistance from the brake magnets before ramping up the voltage, and figures in wheel speed as well so that the trucks anti-lock braking still performs its magic. I don't have a firm grasp of the engineering there, so I just nodded and went on my way, but ultimately, I never saw above 8 volts with my fluke. I plan on using an aftermarket brake controller to see if that makes any kind of difference.

One thing, as mentioned above, is that quite a few grease seals have failed and got grease all over the brake shoes. A quick search of the forum should verify that for you.
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Old 08-07-2018, 06:28 AM   #16
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. . . When testing my Ram . . . I never saw above 8 volts with my fluke. I plan on using an aftermarket brake controller to see if that makes any kind of difference . . .
You're describing the same situation we encountered with our '16 Ram 3500's OEM Ram brake controller---its inability to produce more than 8 volts of braking voltage to the trailer. This issue has been well debated on the various Ram forums. If your trailer brakes satisfactorily with 8 volts or less, then it's really not a problem. However, if your trailer needs 8-12 volts, then it is a problem. I haven't kept up with the forum updates on this issue for the last year or so. Ram may have updated the firmware on the newer 2017-2018 Rams, so not sure if this is still an ongoing issue.

In any case, we elected to install a Tekonsha P3 aftermarket brake controller, along with the appropriate P3 pigtail. It's a simple unplug, plug and play installation. No need for dealer flashes. Just unplug the OEM brake controller (plug can be accessed behind the lower driver's side dash), plug in the P3 pigtail and you're good to go---with a full 12 volts of braking voltage. With the P3, it's nice to be able to check the trailer's braking voltage and current realtime. We also like the "boost" function which fine-tunes low-speed braking for different size trailers.
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Old 08-07-2018, 07:10 AM   #17
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Ford 150 ABS

Greetings...

I read somewhere that on the F150s with the integrated brake contoller, the truck's ABS extends to the trailer brakes as well. This is supposedly using the brake pedal only...if the truck senses ABS is needed on the truck, it pulses the voltage through the trailer plug to the trailer brakes, therefor preventing lockup.

Now manually using the dash controller might be a different story...I haven't "experimented" on our 24RBS. I would think that if you have the gain turned up on the trailer to where the trailer brakes hit before or harder than the truck's brakes, it should be possible to lock up the trailer brakes...
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:11 PM   #18
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Greetings...

I read somewhere that on the F150s with the integrated brake contoller, the truck's ABS extends to the trailer brakes as well. This is supposedly using the brake pedal only...if the truck senses ABS is needed on the truck, it pulses the voltage through the trailer plug to the trailer brakes, therefor preventing lockup . . .
Definitely need some further clarification. What you're describing doesn't sound safe at all.

The ABS on a car/truck requires extremely fast (millisecond) reaction time to operate properly. High speed electronics, valving systems (to control brake fluid pressure), and wheel sensors (to sense wheel lock-up), are major components of a typical ABS.

Unfortunately, none of this equipment or capability exists on a travel trailer. Neither the truck's ABS or OEM integrated brake controller has no way of knowing (or sensing) whether the trailer's wheels are locked-up or not.

Having the ABS or OEM brake controller control the trailer's brakes, based solely on the truck's sensors, with no regard for the actual braking occurring on the trailer itself, could be dangerous. This kind of "blind" operation could easily result in too little or too much trailer braking.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:25 PM   #19
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We cannot lock brakes on our 23RB, with either the aftermarket controller on the Sububan or the integrated controller on the Super Duty. Be cautious, adjust the brake controller until you feel the slight tug as the trailer brakes help you. When we first got the TT I had the gain set super high because it wouldn’t lock the brakes even on 10 with the boost set on high. After making a trip I did my usual check around the rig and the wheel hubs on the TT were so hot they burnt my skin. I lowered the gain until I felt the trailer helping me slow down and left it at that, no more overheated hubs and she stops fine.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:17 PM   #20
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Instructions from Ford to set up proper gain, say to use the manual slide. Increase gain, drive at speed of 30-40 mph and use the manual slide to apply brakes. Repeat, increasing the gain, until trailer feels like trailer is stopping the truck then turn down gain by one setting. Got all the way up to 10 with no feeling that trailer was stopping the truck. The brake controller is now set at 2, the same as our previous truck.
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