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Old 10-04-2011, 10:46 PM   #1
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Charging 26BH from Tow Vehicle

I recently purchased a 2012 Jay Flight TT and expect to do some dry camping from time to time at the ocean. After weighing the plusses and minuses of purchasing and lugging and storing a generator, I decided to make a 4gauge 10' extension cable using the 7pin tow vehicle cable to connect my Ford Expedition to the trailer. The 100+ amp alternator in the Expedition should deliver a significant charge through the heavy wire (limited by a realistic fuse). This will require no mods to the TT and I can then use a 2000watt inverter to run the tv, a few short bursts of the microwave and even a pot of coffee in the morning. Running the tow vehicle will eliminate any noise problems and should top off the TT batteries in less than an hour. All of this assumes doubling up on the supplied battery or going the golf cart battery route. Has anyone tried anything like this? Ed, Albany, NY
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:34 AM   #2
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I think you may be a little overly optimistic on the charging capability of the 7 pin. I have not seen my battery take more than 7 or 8 amps charging from the vehicle. I am sure the larger gauge wire will help some, but I think the limitation is the internal vehicle wiring.

I think for that level of charging, you would be better off with some type of direct battery connection such as this:


Having said that - I am not sure how the deep cycle batteries would handle that kind of charging all the time directly from the alternator - Occasionally it would be fine, but I would think repeated rapid charging like that would lessen the life.

Now this is just me - I would make sure I had a good pair of 6 volts all charged up for the camping trip and rely on the 7 pin for occasional top-offs and for use in the event you run out and need power in a pinch. I dont think I would rely on it as a power strategy.



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Old 10-05-2011, 11:47 AM   #3
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Spend the extra $ on upgrading to 6V true deep cycles and using the existing 7 pin as stated. Do a search in this forum on batteries and you'll see several reccomendations from other members.

I have 2-6V in my rig and they will last several days under normal use. Your TV usually can keep up with them enough. If your going to do a week you will need a genny. But if only for charging and light use then you can get away with a small cheaper one as a hour twice a day will suffice in keeping them up full though your converter.
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Old 10-05-2011, 03:36 PM   #4
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Ed,

Welcome to the Jayco forums.

I have to concur with the thoughts that "Terry" and "3'senough" offered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodwatch2003 View Post
snip.....All of this assumes doubling up on the supplied battery or going the golf cart battery route.....snip
Since you apparently will be doing some degree of boondocking, two 6V 100%True Deep Cycle batteries would be a good investment for a number of reasons. The biggest advantage is the additional AMP capacity, but equally important is that a 100% true deep cycle battery will take a whole lot more discharge/charge cycles over a standard 12V RV/Marine battery, this means longer life.

For example......,

A shallower average DoD (Depth-of-Discharge) will increase battery life. A deep cycle battery with an average 50% DoD will last at least twice as long as an 80% DoD. A typical GC-2 deep cycle battery will average 225 cycles at 80% DoD, but will increase to 750 cycles at 50% DoD.


**Cycles**



****************** % Depth of Discharge *************

Just some additional food for thought. Also, check out the "Jayco Mods" section of this forum for both 12V and 6V battery upgrades.

Bob
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:25 PM   #5
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Just a few more thoughts on your original post - where are you camping and for how long at a time? I know you said by the ocean, but do you anticipate running the furnace much? That is going to be a huge draw and will really shorten the run time. On the coffee, I would do the old fashioned perc. Trying to run that from an inverter would also suck a lot of power. The micro - would be iffy - again would suck a lot of power. If I was going to run it, I would do so on generator. Television is good, but be careful. I have a flat screen that uses like 75 watts. They have them now that are half that.



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Old 10-05-2011, 05:38 PM   #6
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I went with the large wire approach shown in the picture above (but no jumper cable ends). I ut in a circuit breaker, 4AWG from the burbs engine compartment to the rear, with the quick disconnects wired to the batteries. We often drive for hours between destination and it seems to help. I also run the fridge off the inverter while doing so and this keeps em from depleting.
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:10 AM   #7
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So things brings up another question I alluded to in my original reply -

Does charging a deep cycle with an alternator for long periods of time have any impact on the battery? I am used to the 3 and 4 stage chargers, but what is the charge pattern for an alternator? I realize this is probably no big issue for occasional charging, but how would the battery react to long and repeated charging with an alternator? Come to think of it, boats do it all the time - so I guess it is ok?



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Old 10-06-2011, 09:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tafische View Post
snip......Does charging a deep cycle with an alternator for long periods of time have any impact on the battery? I am used to the 3 and 4 stage chargers, but what is the charge pattern for an alternator?.......snip
Terry,

Even though a high output alternator can deliver high voltage capacities, the voltage regulator controls the amount of output to the TV battery based on the TV battery's charging requirements. The alternator is also supplying the TV's electrical system needs separate from the TV's battery charging requirements, thus the TV battery is a "backup" for those times when the alternator can't meet the electrical systems demands. The main purpose of a battery in a TV is to start the engine.

Now, I can only assume that the dedicated 12V battery connection (#4 pin) on the 7 pin connector is somehow tied into the TV's battery charging system. If this is true, this might explain the low amp output at the #4 pin connection, and may also provide some protection from over charging the TT battery (?).

So, could one assume that the voltage regulator is controlling the "charge pattern" (amp output) from the alternator to the TV and TT batteries?

Well, it sounds good anyways

Bob
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:45 AM   #9
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Eagle is correct #4 pin on the TV, black wire lead is the charging lead from your TV 12V system. As far as regulation goes the alternators are just like generators in that the faster they turn to more they generate, when activated by the regulator. With that being said your charge times will be longer as it idles but due to the draw from your TT the alternator should be putting out as much as it needs to meet demand. It won't spike like your convertor to 14.4V in stage one but you should be putting out 13.8V or so from your TV to bump them up. During Irene I had to use my TV for two days and according to my inverter read out I was as low as 12.2 and within an hour back to 12.7-12.8. I just let my truck idle since my genny was home due to being at a full hook up facility.

If your going to do weeks dry camping though your going to want to invest in the battery upgrade and if you don't need the other amenities like A/C, coffee pots, or micros get a small 1K genny so you will be able to keep up with your usage. As mentioned above, if your going to use your heater your batteries are going to take a hit overnight. Which ocean location?
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:24 PM   #10
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Quote:
thus the TV battery is a "backup" for those times when the alternator can't meet the electrical systems demands
I will agree with you mostly! I had a Dodge van that required a battery. Without it, the computer would not run and thus the car would not run. I hated that car! I had the battery drop a cell - would jump it - and as soon as I pulled the cables - it would die. Was told that was how they were....



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Old 10-06-2011, 10:36 PM   #11
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Thanks for all the input. I have a somewhat special situation in that I have an 80ah gell cell battery as a spare in the back of my expedition. It is used primarily to support the 500 watt amateur radio amplifier I use when I am not towing. This battery is fed with double #4 from the vehicle battery as the amplifier will draw 80+ amps on peak when the radio is transmitting. I am thinking of running a separate pair of cables #4 or better to the trailer with a very robust connector and tieing them directly to my auxiliary battery (fused of course). This way I will not "toast" my 7 pin cable or connector. I have large dual 12v deep cycle batteries already on the trailer. I will probably add a xantrex 2000 w inverter for the occasional microwave blast or to watch the 24" lcd tv.

I will be dry camping for a week at Hither Hills State Park on the extreme eastern tip of Long Island(NY). We will go in early June when it is not really hot enough for AC.

As for the charging questions, for many years I ran deep cycle batteries (both 12v in parallel and 6v in series) on my former boat using the engines to provide charging when not connected to a dockside charger and they appeared not to suffer any ill effects over time. In my case though, I was charging a number of batteries as I will be here. (Primary car battery, backup battery and two trailer deep cycle batteries. I have digital voltage and current meters watching the trailer batteries. These show the current going to and from the batteries. If I do more dry camping as time goes on, I will probably bite the bullet and purchase a pair of 2kw inverter-generators. Even with the gensets, I prefer the inverter for short bursts of appliances. My car alternator is 135amp and should provide sufficient current so long as I increase the charging wire size to deal with the load. I even considered putting the inverter in my Expedition and plugging my "shore" cable into it there. This way I keep the 12v cable length to less than 3 feet and the trailer converter will charge the trailer batteries with a hefty charge when the engine is running. Not sure if I answered everyone's questions... Saturday will be our first overnighter with the new Jayco. (Safely tied to a full hookup to run the heat )(40 degrees last night here in Lake George, NY)
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foodwatch2003 View Post
snip.......All of this assumes doubling up on the supplied battery or going the golf cart battery route......snip
Ed,

I thought you initially implied that you only had the single OEM battery in your new Jayco....., but I see from your recent post that you had two 12V batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodwatch2003 View Post
snip........I have large dual 12v deep cycle batteries already on the trailer.......snip
Sounds like you have a handle on what you plan to do , let us know how it works out.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:43 AM   #13
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Sounds like you have a decent setup to support yourself. Though the inverter is going to kill your batteries especially if you try to run your micro. For what you spend on an inveter of that size you might be better to buy a 750W inverter and a cheap small Honeywell genny. I have a 750W inveter in my rig and that runs three LCD TV at once with some leftover to do my phone or laptop. It does however chew up some battery after about 3 hours of use. Just my opinion.

Thought that was the CG you were talking about. Heading there next week for 4 days. I like the offseason there as you can have a campfire and fishing is exceptional.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:18 PM   #14
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Just a suggestion for "robust" connectors. I have an industrial diesel backhoe with a 24v system. I have a small parasitic drain that I can't find, if the backhoe sits for a week or so, the batteries will be low. I needed a heavy connector to unplug the batteries, the starter draws a lot.

Went to the local welding supply and picked up connectors used for welding lines, they were very reasonably priced.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:59 PM   #15
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Charging deep cycle batteries..

What I have found the trick to charging deep cycle batteries is to hit them with 14.4VDC at 40AMPS or so for about two hours then drop back to 13.6VDC for another hour or so. This should bring any deep cycle battery back up to about 90% charge.

I have also found you cannot charge a battery with just 12.2VDC - it will take forever and then two more days to make any headway. Using your truck and alternator would require running your truck for 3-4 hours to get a couple of deep cycles batteries back up to at least 90% charge.

Running a large INVERTER is also a bad idea. True it will put out enough power to run your toys but it wont last long. Inverters pull "alot of current" from your batteries... Mine are fused at 175 AMPS. It will run down my three GP24 deep cycle batteries in just a few hours so I really have to watch my p's and q's when camping off the power grid running off just the Inverter.. I can run most everything I normally do at an electric site like watch HDTV, light up my corner of the camp site, play with my ham radio toys, and survive pretty good until lights out. Then during the night we run one electric blanket and maybe a LED night light. No heater fan as it pulls a bunch of power so have to get under the covers real quick. Then the next morning when i am allowed to run my 2KW generator I will re-charge my three GP24 deep cycle batteries back up to 90% charge in a 3-4 hour generator run time during the day. Then I'm good to go for that nites battery run with my toys...

You have to replace all of your incandescent lights with LEDs and replace your on-board converter/charger with a "smart mode" system, beef up your battery cables to 4GA cables and install at least two batteries for your DC toys... Then you will need at least a 1500W Inverter PSW TYPE to run your AC toys... This does not include the use of your Air conditioner or high wattage Microwave or running your furnace blower motor all night...

Once you run out of battery power during the night Momabear goes home and she wont let you camp by yourself after that...

We again make it just fine but have to re-charge batteries the next day by connecting the trailer shore power cable directly to the 2KW quiet mode Honda generator 120VAC Receptacle using a RV30A-15A adapter from Walmart for 3-4 hours...
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