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Old 04-09-2017, 09:16 PM   #1
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F150 vs F250 & Tow vs 5th Wheel Opinions

We've had our TT a year now and are enjoying it. On the way home from our current trip my wife and I started discussing some possible upgrades based on our experiences. We have a multi week cross country trip set for later this year so now is the time to make any changes should we decide. I would appreciate inputs and experiences on the following

Current TT - 265RLSW, 30'
Current TV - 2016 F150 Platinum Super Crew, Max Tow Package, Ecoboost enging

Considering - 5th Wheel of approx same size and/or current year F250

F250 - I know from many discussions here that a 3/4T TV is a better option. Our experiences in high winds last week (see post here if you like) made me seriously consider an upgrade. Question - does a 3/4T really make that much difference in the towing experience? My current F150 pulls the TT with ease and under normal conditions it's a good fit. That said, hitting some high winds last week and getting pushed all over the freeway really scared me. Plus, I am told that the trailer is less noticeable on the F250. I know the TT is back there on my F150, no way to not feel it and know it's there. Some here swear by the 3/4T trucks as the only option for a TV, others for the 1/2T as a good option. Thinking now is if I get 1,000 miles from home and get caught in some high winds or a tough spot will the 3/4T make enough difference to justify the cost (loss) on upgrading from a relatively new truck. I only have 16,000 miles on it.

I know nothing about 5th wheel trailers. Plan to start looking but - is there a big difference in the towing experience, ease of use and setup, long haul driving, etc. I know that having weight over rear axle is a plus, seems would be easier to maneuver backing up but I don't know much else about them. Again, facing a cost on upgrading after a year but if we spend more and more time on the road and make longer trips then something I would consider.

thx
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Old 04-09-2017, 09:59 PM   #2
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It's all about payload capacity. The fifth (and hitch) add a considerable amount of weight to your truck. So the very first parameter is how much can it carry, then worry about how much it can tow.

Case in point: My F-150 has the Heavy Duty Payload package, along with Max Tow. The door sticker says it has a payload of 2166 lbs. This is far above most 150's, and many "stock" 250's! (Don't panic, there are plenty of 250's that exceed that number, you just can't assume that they all do!)
With our old 26.5 RLS (second smallest fifth Jayco makes), the wife, two dogs, and a hitch, we were right at max. payload.
Unfortunately, a tree branch ripped the roof, and water damage resulted in the Ins. Co. totaling it. Current versions are at a minimum several hundred to many hundreds of pounds over on what our pin weight was. So, too much weight for the truck. We looked, and in that size, there is NO new production fifth by any mfg. that the truck can carry. A newer 150 (which can carry even more, properly equipped) or a 250 just isn't in the cards. So we had to go with a travel trailer.

We loved that fifth - 14,500 miles to all three coasts. Over many, many mountain ranges. 6-7% grades, etc., etc. Truck always pulled like a dream. But I just wasn't willing to be excessively overweight ...
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:08 PM   #3
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Yes my F150's payload is only 1750lbs.
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Old 04-09-2017, 10:10 PM   #4
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Thanks. Got the payload vs towing numbers down. Payload on my current F150 is 1,515lb. With my tongue at approx 800lbs we're OK but not a lot of wiggle room once all in. Sounds like the payload (pin I guess it's called) weight for comparable sized 5th wheels runs higher than it does for tow.
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Old 04-10-2017, 06:40 AM   #5
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I don't have a lot of time behind the wheel of a 3/4 ton but have compared it a bit but it isn't a direct comparison.

Our old camper was a Dutchmen 22BH. It was the light weight version and pretty darn light compared to the new 25BH but it also didn't have a slide and it had to be measured differently because it was a 22' model and 23' overall. Where the 25BH is a 25' model and 30' overall.

Anyhow we normally towed it with our 1/2 ton Avalanche then later the 1/2 Yukon Denali. I would notice it a lot more with the Avalanche. The Denali has a much bigger engine (5.3 v 6.2) and better transmission (4 sp vs 6 sp) as well as air suspension. However we always used the bars on the WD hitch. For some reason we borrowed my Father-In-Law's 3/4 ton Sierra with Duramax. Because the suspension was so much stronger and the tongue really not all that heavy we never bothered with the leveling bars on the WD hitch. Also no matter what vehicle we pulled it with we never bothered with sway control. Pulling it with the 3/4 felt like it wasn't there. I wouldn't say it was because of the load rating. We could pull the camper level with the other vehicles. It is just that the 3/4 had a lot more torque being a diesel so the get up and go was night and day different. Also it has better brakes. Of the three the Avalanche had the worst brakes by a landslide..

As far as the new camper. We have only pulled that with the Denali and while my FIL has sold his 3/4 he now has a 1 ton with DRW. I haven't pulled our new camper with it but last year my son, FIL and I went fishing up in Northern MN. It was a pretty long drive up there and we took his 1 ton and their Big Horn 5th Wheel. Their camper is a big 42' I think and really heavy.I know they got the biggest one they could get because they live in it all summer. Anyhow we split driving on the way up there and back so I have a few hundred miles. It wasn't very windy or at least I didn't notice it but keep in mind that a 5th wheel is a lot taller and have more side surface to catch the wind. They are normally more stable than a TT but there are trade offs in maneuverability. Some of this come down to the combo of tow vehicle and trailer so these are general statements. 5th wheels are great going down the highway. When you get in town and are making tighter turns they take more planning. For instance stopping for fuel. You are better off going to truck stops and that is another reason diesel trucks are better for 5th wheels as you can get fuel where the semi trucks do. The canopies are a lot taller so you don't have to worry about the canopy clearance like you would at the auto pumps. The pumps are positioned so they are easy to get in and out. Not so much with regular gas pumps as they are normally positioned for better visibility to the store to deter drive offs. Backing a 5th wheel into a tight camp can be more difficult. This is where the combo of the tow vehicle it is paired with comes into play though. The longer wheel base of a crew cab long box means it has a poor turning radius which makes backing harder. If you can get by with a standard cab it is better. I will say that the 5th wheel has a lot more capacity and storage but I can't really compare realistically. One is a 42' long and about $100K my camper is 25' and $23K. However that basement storage is nice.

On that trip I had no issues getting in and out of truck stops. My final stop when I handed driving back to the FIL was for fuel. We were getting close to the city so there were no more truck stops. It was more of a traditional gas station near a strip mall. No issues getting off the highway but when trying to turn onto the service road to take me to the gas station was a 4 way stop sign. I need to make a right. Well I was the first at the intersection but need to swing it wide because just like a semi the trailer is going to turn a lot sharper than me. So I need to swing into the oncoming lane. There is a car sitting there. So I am trying to wave the person on. Finally they get it and go. Of course another soccer mom pulls up to the stop sign behind the first car that has finally moved and sits there. I am waving her on and finally she caught on and went along comes a 3rd car. By now I had cars stacking up behind me and said screw it, swung wide and this person panics when they see the big truck and camper in their lane until I could clear the corner and get back on my side. This intersection wouldn't have been an issue with a travel trailer as they will track much closer to the tow vehicles path than what a 5th wheel will. If you are not in these intersections very often it isn't as big of a deal. Had I tried to cut the corner tighter the camper would have hopped up the curb and there were signs there that I would have likely hit or then would have been stuck where I needed to back up with 5 cars behind me. The point is that you still have to thing a head a bit with a travel trailer because your stopping distance is longer or fuel range is reduced but pulling a 5th wheel throws all those along with a few other things.

As far as wind which was your main question I think. Keep in mind that semi trucks blow over all the time. I don't care what you have, if it is really windy your best bet is either to delay travel for a day if you can or get off the interstate where you can drive slower. 5th wheels don't have sway bars so they are just naturally a little more stable but they do tip over. If the only thing that changed in your scenario from last week, same trailer and a 3/4 ton, I don't think it would have been much better. Similar sized trailer and 3/4 ton probably a bit better.

Another thing to throw out there. If you are considering a 3/4 ton, don't dismiss a 1 ton. I know it sounds like a big jump. However they are not much different in price. It kind of depends on how equipped but if very similar going from 3/4 to 1 ton might only be $1000. This depends from make and model but some times the frame, engine and transmission are the same it is just some suspension and maybe gearing. Now this will depend on state a lot but my FIL found in going from a 3/4 to 1 ton his registration went from around $700-800 a year to $140 a year. Meaning in a little over a year in registration costs it covered the difference in sticker price. That is here in MN so I don't know about where you live.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:39 AM   #6
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F-250.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:51 AM   #7
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If you plan on getting a 5er and don't want to be constrained too much in your choices, the 250 or (bigger) is the only way to go in my opinion. Most people that upgrade to a 5th wheel, will never go back.

Jayco has some 1/2 ton towables on their website, but they really aren't.

https://www.jayco.com/products/fifth...wheels/265bhs/
Dry pin weight is almost 1400 pounds.

They even claim that the 30.5 MBOK is half ton towable and it has a dry pin weight of 1795 pounds... crazy.



Towed completely empty, with a driver suffering from Anorexia that has no camping buddies, and no gear in the truck, sure, it's 1/2 ton towable.

Buy your next truck for the camper you don't have yet. If you go with a 250, be careful though if you also decide on the diesel motor. That 9000 dollar upgrade kills your payload rating. If you want Diesel, go with the 350. You can get a 250 Gas, 4x4 with 3500 lbs of cargo capacity and that will allow you to tow a lot of the 5ers out there.

The 250 with the diesel motor drops your payload capacity to 2660. Still more than any 150 on the road, but if you're going for payload, the 350 is the only truck that really makes sense with that combination. The 350 diesel gets you close to 4000 lbs payload and it's only 1 K more than the 250 diesel.

We're getting a new 250 with the 6.2 gas motor and using the 10,000 dollars in savings (over a 350 diesel model) to upgrade to the Lariat trim, loaded. It will tow anything I ever plan on towing. Important thing is you don't want to regret your purchase in 3 years when you realize you didn't get enough truck
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:05 PM   #8
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F250 for sure. I did the same study and would not go with my F150 even though I have a door payload weight of 2405 lbs. Guess they made the older 150s a little stouter in 2009 with the heavy duty and max tow packages.

Some day when I grow up I may be able to buy a 250/350 so I can get my bride the 5er she really wants.

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Old 04-10-2017, 09:53 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzhou View Post
---I know nothing about 5th wheel trailers. Plan to start looking but - is there a big difference in the towing experience, ease of use and setup, long haul driving, etc. I know that having weight over rear axle is a plus, seems would be easier to maneuver backing up but I don't know much else about them. Again, facing a cost on upgrading after a year but if we spend more and more time on the road and make longer trips then something I would consider.

thx
I posted a reply on a similar thread that may provide you some helpful info.

TT vs 5th wheel trailer
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:39 PM   #10
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Our 5th is 39' and last scale was 12700# with 3000# of that on the pin. I wouldn't think of pulling it with anything but a 3/4 - 1 ton. I think it might be at the limits for a 250, as it is I have a touch less than 500# payload remaining on the rear axle.
That said, I ran into a guy recently who was towing a 13k# 5th with an F150! "Max Tow package and airbags to get it level. Tows just fine."
Also discovered he leased his TV's and gets a new one every 3 years.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:49 PM   #11
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If you are considering a fifth wheel, I suggest you pony up the extra $600 and bypass the F-250 and go directly to the F-350. While at it, make sure you get the higher GVWR weight certification. The truck will ride just like the F-250 (spring packs are the same) but you'll almost double your payload.... upwards of 3,800 depending on options.


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Old 04-11-2017, 01:16 PM   #12
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I'd definitely wouldn't pull it with a F150.
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Old 04-11-2017, 04:59 PM   #13
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Thanks for the comments. My wife has started to notice more of the 5th wheel trailers in the parks and on the road and is interested. I'm not yet convinced. IF we did end up moving to a 5th then my F150 is certainly NOT an option for a TV. IF we stay with our current TT (which I like) then my debate is whether to move to the F250 now in advance of our Memphis to LA to Seattle and back trip later this year or continue with my F150. Like I said, some recent windy days on the open freeway gave me pause with the F150. My load specs are all OK so not trying to get more load capacity per se but questioning whether the F250 will pull it better in moderate winds and make a 6,000 mile round trip more relaxing. Reason I stuck with the F150 is that like many, 95% of the trucks use is driving around town and light hauling. Great ride and love the truck. I saw an F250 Platinum at the service station the other day and wondering if it rides the same for every day use. I don't want to spend 95% of my driving in a work truck ride. Guess I should go test drive one tomorrow.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:23 PM   #14
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If you are planning on going to all of those places that you mention a 3/4 ton will be more stable in towing, I had two 1/2 and now I'm on my four truck and it's a 3/4 ton 6.4L 2500 with the 4.10 gears, and that give me 15,650 lbs of towing and 3000 lbs of payload.

Since I have the spring in my 2500 it don't ride too bad, really compare to the two 1/2 I had, but yeah I would test drive some and see what you think. Good luck and let us know what did you decide.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:34 PM   #15
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I found myself with a practically BRAND NEW RAM 2500 Laramie - CTD, when DW and I fell absolutely in love with a 5er floorpan that we KNEW that we had to have! While the RAM could easily pull the weight, unfortunately, when loaded, it would exceed pin weight.

I did some research, and I was going to take a BEATING on a trade-in, plus I really didn't want a dually, with the wider fenders and six tires always on the ground.... So I started looking for a solution, and I was fortunate to FIND one, that works GREAT for me!!!

I tow my 377RLBH with an Automated Safety Hitch, which I absolutely LOVE!!!! No "chucking", and the steerable feature of the ASH pushes the nose of the trailer right when I turn left, and left when I turn right, which acts the same as shortening my trailer length! Additionally, If I brake "hard", the pin isn't pushing down on my rear axle, and lifting my front axle, where 75%+/- of braking comes from. Instead, the trailer pushes down on it's OWN axle, which has the exact same disc-brakes that the RAM has!

Yes, it was an expensive hitch! But overall cost was FAR less than reading in a relatively new 2500 for a dually 3500, PLUS, I only have 6-wheels turning on the truck when I'm towing, not every day, like dually owners do....

Take a look at their website at The Automated Safety Hitch | Trailer Hitch | Gooseneck Horse Trailers | 5th Wheel RVs | Flatbed Goosenecks | Fifth Wheel .

And, YES, I've heard ALL of the "experts" comments on why this is "unsafe" or doesn't work".... Fact of the matter is, that haters shouldn't judge until the actually see one and tow a trailer with it!
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:52 PM   #16
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Like sennister said check out the F350.
I have SRW with a GVRW of 11500 and handles my Jayco 355W with ease.

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Old 04-11-2017, 05:58 PM   #17
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suzhou...if you guys decide to keep the F-150 to not take a hosing on the trade and you want to stick with your current TT, you probably should look at a Hensley or ProPride hitch. These hitches will eliminate your sway issues even on the windiest days. Do some research. It might be a viable solution to keep your current setup.

Just because you go with a 3/4 or 1 ton, doesn't automatically mean you will not have sway issues on those very windy days. There are guys posting quite often on here about their 3/4 tons getting sway with relatively small trailers.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:20 PM   #18
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I was coming home this pass weekend and the wind was high and yes I had to slow down because of the wind so yeah you can get sway even in a 3/4 ton.

There are a lot of good info here, let us know what you decide.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:31 PM   #19
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Does it have to be a ford? I understand there are a lot, so the price is lower, but have you looked a dodge or chevy? 2500 or 3500? I have an 06 3500 dulley. I figured I wanted to get the biggest I could and not limit the size of my rig down the road.


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Old 04-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #20
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We are evaluating the same thing (moving to a 5er) but my TV is the 2012 F150 Platinum pulling a Starcraft Launch 26BH. Comparing the specs of a 250 to the F350 diesel and the moderate price difference (when you are in, go all in), we are leaning toward the F350 which opens up so many more 5er's we can consider.
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