First time post! Newbie and advice please :)

[bluejay]

New to the forum, to RV life, and to the community!
Glad to be here, and hopeful that very basic questions will be permitted.
I am interested in a Jayco and we are towing with a 1st generation Sequoia.

I have souped it up with headers, suspension and intake/exhaust however the stated limit is 6500lbs. I am sure that I could tow more however without an upgrade to the 5.7L engine, I would probably want to limit myself to 7k or so.

We have been trying to stay within weight limits and we are interested in the 24MBH White Hawk. Personally I also like the look of the Jayflight 27BHS. I love the layout and it's even cheaper than the 24' White Hawk! That said, the weight is 8250 gross vehicle and I'd be potentially worried about that (again, I have no experience towing, don't understand anything re: hitches yet, etc).

I'd be grateful for your thoughts re: the 24MBH (we like the Murphy Bed layout and it seems to provide a lot more room). We will normally be traveling w/4, but at times will have 6 with us (3 kids, 3 adults). We definitely require bunks. We don't necessarily need the separate bedroom and would rather use the space, hence the Murphy focus). Are there any other Murphy trailers that we have missed? I did see a 23' Jayfeather however for the additional money the White Hawk seemed a lot more feature-rich.

I am truly and extremely grateful for any thoughts you may be able to share during this quest to find our trailer! PS. is there a master-website where I can see inventory of all jayco dealers near a specific geographic point? Many thanks!

[oldmanAZ]

Welcome to the JOF and RV life.

IMO, first you need to look at the payload of your Sequoia, not its towing capacity. In most cases, the trailer tongue weight, plus all the stuff (people and cargo) carried in the Sequoia, will be the limit you hit first; not the stated limit for the trailer gross weight.

Check into that and then see which trailers will work for you.

[Mbranscum]

First, you would be 1750 lbs over your tow limit. I'm sure that's dry weight. By the time you add supplies and equipment you're going to probably be more than 2K over limit. Then there's payload. Your tongue weight is probably 600-800 lbs plus all the bodies you listed will probably put you over capacity. Very dangerous situation. I would not buy that trailer unless you upgrade your TV.

[Gman1372]

Welcome and listen to these guys. They're giving good advice. Souped up headers and stuff won't increase your towing capacity. Safe bet it to purchase a trailer 1000lbs under your TVs towing capacity. That'll give you a little room for gear, liquids and passengers.. Plus you won't be doing 45 up a highway incline.

[norty1]

Generations of Family Fun | Jayco, Inc.

Click on nearest dealers with your area code.

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by bluejay

New to the forum, to RV life, and to the community!
Glad to be here, and hopeful that very basic questions will be permitted.
I am interested in a Jayco and we are towing with a 1st generation Sequoia.

I have souped it up with headers, suspension and intake/exhaust however the stated limit is 6500lbs. I am sure that I could tow more however without an upgrade to the 5.7L engine, I would probably want to limit myself to 7k or so.

We have been trying to stay within weight limits and we are interested in the 24MBH White Hawk. Personally I also like the look of the Jayflight 27BHS. I love the layout and it's even cheaper than the 24' White Hawk! That said, the weight is 8250 gross vehicle and I'd be potentially worried about that (again, I have no experience towing, don't understand anything re: hitches yet, etc).

I'd be grateful for your thoughts re: the 24MBH (we like the Murphy Bed layout and it seems to provide a lot more room). We will normally be traveling w/4, but at times will have 6 with us (3 kids, 3 adults). We definitely require bunks. We don't necessarily need the separate bedroom and would rather use the space, hence the Murphy focus). Are there any other Murphy trailers that we have missed? I did see a 23' Jayfeather however for the additional money the White Hawk seemed a lot more feature-rich.

I am truly and extremely grateful for any thoughts you may be able to share during this quest to find our trailer! PS. is there a master-website where I can see inventory of all jayco dealers near a specific geographic point? Many thanks!

With the limitations of your vehicle, I'd recommend that you look at the Jay Feather lineup. The 25BH optimistically says it sleeps 8-10, but that would be pretty cozy. However 4-6 would be no problem. And the gross weight is 6750 lbs. Hitch weight is 640 dry, so that would be pushing 800 loaded unless you load the trailer carefully. The 23 BHM sleeps 4-6 and has the Murphy bed that you liked. Gross weight on that is a more manageable 6250, and at 600 lbs, gains you 40 pounds on the hitch.

Something to consider, given the vehicle you plan to tow with.

[bluejay]

I am both humbled and grateful for the knowledge that you have already shared, and especially for the patience with which you have done so.
I'm a member of many forums, and often when total newbies ask questions, they are excoriated for their lack of knowledge.
With a towing max of 6500lbs, I'm quite unaware of my payload and how that relates to towing maximums.
Also, tongue trailer weight is a new concept. I have also heard about various types of hitches that can be very important to avoid sway. Hensley is a brand that I heard about however I do not know whether that is something to look into, or whether they are still viable/important.
I appreciate your recommendations regarding the Jayfeather 25BH and 23 BHM. I am also interested in the White Hawk 24MBH as you know. I think that will limit myself to these three as the 27BHS is clearly beyond our towing capacity.
I would be grateful for your time re: any of the matters above. Including your thoughts re: costs comparing the 23 BHM, 24MBH, and 25BH.
After this I will definitely have a ton to ask about buying prices, options, preferred dealers and so much more. We're hoping to have a trip next summer however I have all winter to research, and especially learn and be schooled by my (far) betters thanks for your wisdom.

[Mbranscum]

Payload rating should be on the inside driver side door post. Look up the tongue weight on your trailer specs. I did and I believe it was around 600#. So for example if your payload was 1500# you have 900# left in the TV for any passengers and stuff you carry in the TV.

[bluejay]

I can see the GVWR, I'm attempting to post an image (first time on the forum). This reminds me of Yotatech, hopefully it will work!

[RPreeb]

There are more concerns for towing than just the weight of the trailer. Most vehicles with factory towing packages have additional cooling for both engine and especially transmission cooler (and user selectable tow shift settings), often a lower ratio rear end. They also have beefed up suspension. That is just the minimum, many include other options as well, like integrated trailer brake controller, and even (on newer Ford trucks like mine) a trailer back up assist.

The lighter the trailer, the more you can live without a full towing setup, but those things have to be considered.

[nwminnesota]

If I am not mistaken there should be another sticker showing the pay load as well. Maybe I over looked it on the picture.

[bluejay]

Thanks RPreeb and nwminnesota for your help!
I have discussed the matter w/my better half and it looks like, given our TV and predilection for murphy bed, we are down to only two trailers, these are the jayfeather 23 BHM or the white hawk 24MBH. The difference between the two primarily seems to be that the bunks on the 24MBH hawk are double size. Also, I have heard that the White Hawk series has quite a lot more amenities than the jay feather series (wood vs laminated floor, better outside (slide-out) kitchen, diamond plating, included TV etc); my question for you all is, are the white hawk series models far better than the jayfeather? The white hawk is 500lbs heavier than the jay feather but I'm fairly confident from reading other tundrasolutions posts that I should be able to handle either (23 BHM Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 6250, the 24MBH Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 6750. We're seeing prices at 20k for the jayfeather, 25 for the whitehawk.

[Gman1372]

When we were looking the first question the dealer asked was what are you towing with. After I told him he said fine. Then he said they won't sell you a trailer you shouldn't be towing. He also said we don't let you leave without the proper hitch setup and break controller and road test. I thought it was good how they were more than just a sale.

[Baja]

Blue... STOP looking and find your PAYLOAD rating of the SUV...

3 adults and 3 kids plus equipment and tongue weight could be playing a dangerous game.

Find the payload rating. Better yet go weigh the truck even if you have to go to the local dump with a bag of trash. Subtract the scale weight of the truck from the GVWR on the door sticker. I guarantee you it will be even LESS than the indicated payload figure because that figure is based on a stripped down vehicle. Even floor mats aren't included.

Go weigh the truck.

[Baja]

Also look at this directly from Toyota.

Toyota Sequoia Towing Capacity (Compared with Others)

[bluejay]

Thank you so much Baja and Gman1372.
Please know that I am nowhere near a purchase, safety comes first and I'm very grateful for your patience as I am "schooled" in these matters where (I'm primarily just grateful) that I am posting here first rather than making a (very dangerous) decision and purchasing a trailer way above my capacities.
I am posting an attachment listing the specs for the TV we will be using.
We are using a 4WD v8 vehicle. For this reason the towing capacity appears to be 6200LBS (why less than the 2wd?) and the payload appears to be 1640 (also less than the 2wd model, not sure why). These numbers I am sure will greatly impact our choices. Given this information I am grateful for your thoughts on the two that we are looking at, the 24MBH and the 23BHM; with very respectful and humble appreciation, Blue

[RyRoRyan]

The simple reason why 4x4's tow less than 4x2's is weight. The truck itself is rated based off the frame, engine, suspension, and primary drive axle in trucks case the rear axle (except honda's but those are not trucks but we wont go there), and a few other small things. Putting 4x4 into a truck adds weight to it (front differential, transfer case, driveshaft, etc). Since they dont change the frame out for a 4x4, the total rating is still the same, but now the truck weighs more so you can tow less. Many people think that having a 4x4 increases your towing capacity, but it really does nothing for you, towing wise (unless you are trying to pull something out of sand, snow, etc). When driving down the road pulling your rig, are you going to drive in 4x4 because you have rig? No you wont, it will more than likely hurt your car more than help it if you do that. When towing, 4x4 is really only a waste of weight.

[Camper_bob]

Bluejay, you can look at all the paper you want, and you won't find the information you are looking for. And the forum cannot provide it either (unless a user has the exact same truck you have with the same people in it and has weighed it on a scale, which is possible, but unlikely). To find your actual payload, you need to go weigh the truck. Period. Forget any other printed material that doesn't say "CAT" on the top (CAT Scale). And forget the "towing capacity"; that is a marketing number and holds absolutely no weight in this decision matrix.

Fill the tank up, put the whole clan in the truck and take a pass over a scale. Subtract that scale number from the GVWR listed on the plate in the truck (6700 lbs according to your picture), and that is your tentative payload. (I say "tentative" because you will likely have other gear in the truck with you when you travel, and it all adds up.) This is THE. ONLY. WAY. to know for sure if you are within capacities.

Whatever your scaled available payload is is what you have to work with on tongue weight. That's it. It's that simple. At that point, because you have gone over a scale, none of the options in your specific vehicle matter. As they say, "the scale does not lie".

According to Jayco.com, those two trailers you're considering have potential tongue weights of 1013 (for the MBH) and 938 (for the BHM). That's simply 15% of the GVWR. That's the max the tongue can weigh under fully loaded conditions. Now, granted, you may never tow under those conditions, but for the exercise of determining if you have enough truck to sling your trailer, this is what I would go with; it might give you some wiggle room if you're close.

So, once you have scaled your truck, just compare those maximum weights I listed to the number you get from the scale and see what you get. If your GVWR minus your scale weight is more than about 950 lbs, I'd say you have a good chance for a safe tow (or at least within your weight capacities) on either trailer.

[NVGun40]

Bluejay, there is good solid advice from Camper_bob. The only thing I can think of adding is that if you have found a dealership with the actual trailers on site, you can look at the yellow stickers on the trailer and find out what the post weights for those rigs are; versus the specification numbers found in brochures and on line.
In all, you are doing great in researching all of this before you buy. Don't hesitate to ask any questions you may have. There is a lot of great knowledge and a lot of great people here. Often times even a new comers questions cause us old timers to learn something new.


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[bluejay]

Thank you so much Camper_bob and NVGun40 for your time spent on your truly helpful replies. I will work towards weighing the TV so that I can determine the actual payload. Where might I weigh a vehicle? I know that truck stops often have scales, however in a (smaller) town, are there generally available locations where a private individual might weigh a truck? Hopefully this could be a free service however if payment is necessary I would view this as essential information to have.

I do have some more questions, especially "tongue weight". If there is a list of stickies that I am missing (commonly asked questions, newbie education) I apologize for having missed those! Basically, as you helped me understand, Camper_bob, the two trailers that I am interested in presently have those two potential "tongue weights" of 1013 (for the MBH) and 938 (for the BHM). My understanding is that these weights have to be available "payload" and not "towing capacity". I am still not fully understanding the difference between these criteria. Also tongue seems to be the extended portion of the trailer, the part that attaches to the hitch I imagine.

I did call the RV dealer today and they indicated that they do install special hitches (for an additional charge, certainly) which is what I will most probably absolutely need to avoid sway and make sure that the trailer is securely/safely attached. The WhiteHawk seems to have motorized aspects to the "tongue" however it will take me more study to learn the proper terms and concepts...

One last question on my mind has to do with tanks (clean water? Grey water? Black water?) and motorized "flush" from those (seems to be an option?). Fridge seems to run from propane (which certainly adds weight?) Water also I am sure adds a great deal of weight...knowing when to add water will be critical I imagine and will definitely impact payload etc; this is a complex matter at this initial learning phase, however I can tell that this is second nature to you all and so I have confidence that it is not an impossible venture, just intimidating at this point