heating pads or NO

[mtjag7]

We found a 2022 Jayco Feather 199MBS we are considering, but just discovered while it does have the enclosed underbelly, it does not have the heating pads for the water tanks. The sales person said heated pads are over kill and that there is still forced air heating going into that underbelly cavity that will in most cases keep the water tanks from freezing. We live at high altitude in Colorado and do weekend excursions around the state even in the winter (between snows). Does anyone have any experience about this to confirm the heating pads are not all that useful?

[norty1]

It would not be a deal breaker for me.

I have read many complaints about them falling off and the sealed underbelly on my rig has heating duct and warm air moving when the furnace in running. I am not in the high cold country but they work for the majority of rv'ers I know.

[Spower]

I don't have heating pads either but I was told that my enclosed underbelly was insulated so don't need them and that the furnace sends heat down there.
I was camped this past winter in Colorado. It was very cold and we had a snow blizzard. I put a space heater in my storage area where there was a small access to underbelly, it was on a thermostat. I did this because I was using electric heat inside instead of the furnace. Never had a freeze problem.
But, I also found out there is NO insulation in the underbelly!! I had a black tank cable issue and had to cut a spot open, that is how I found out.

[mtjag7]

Originally Posted by norty1

It would not be a deal breaker for me.

I have read many complaints about them falling off and the sealed underbelly on my rig has heating duct and warm air moving when the furnace in running. I am not in the high cold country but they work for the majority of rv'ers I know.

Thanks for that feedback. As long as there is warm air going into that cavity it should be ok. I've often wondered about these with heating pads, what happens when you are traveling down the road in freezing temps?

[TWP723]

Originally Posted by mtjag7

Thanks for that feedback. As long as there is warm air going into that cavity it should be ok. I've often wondered about these with heating pads, what happens when you are traveling down the road in freezing temps?

The motion of the water back and forth as you travel won't allow it to freeze. It can build up slush but it shouldn't freeze solid. I've even heard people putting anti-freeze in the waste tanks to keep them from freezing. But if you're sitting for a few days and it gets cold cold, pads are great.

[mtjag7]

Originally Posted by norty1

It would not be a deal breaker for me.

I have read many complaints about them falling off and the sealed underbelly on my rig has heating duct and warm air moving when the furnace in running. I am not in the high cold country but they work for the majority of rv'ers I know.

thank you for that input...just wanting to be cautious as things here in Colorado change quickly at times, especially during the 9 months before June and the 9 months following August. LOL Two years ago we had 16" of snow on September 8th and this year it snow about 1 foot on May 26th.

[CAG]

Originally Posted by mtjag7

We found a 2022 Jayco Feather 199MBS we are considering, but just discovered while it does have the enclosed underbelly, it does not have the heating pads for the water tanks. The sales person said heated pads are over kill and that there is still forced air heating going into that underbelly cavity that will in most cases keep the water tanks from freezing. We live at high altitude in Colorado and do weekend excursions around the state even in the winter (between snows). Does anyone have any experience about this to confirm the heating pads are not all that useful?

The heating pads they put on the Jaycos are worthless. They are small and do no good.

Other RVs with large pads and heated underbellies rated to 0 or below are more realistic. If you are going to do long time elk hunts in temps do 10 or below you need them. Otherwise it is a waste of money for some 20 degree camp.

I found that we did not need heated tanks as long as you kept heat going into the basement during long low temp nights.

[TomC_AZ]

I feel the need to chime in on this one as there is some erroneous info here, not from posters though.

One thing you should always remember is that salespeople lie, and do not have your best interest in mind/heart etc just their bottom line! The Jay Feather Micro does NOT have forced air in its underbelly. There are no floor vents etc... Call the salesperson on it! (it also has no statement of it in Jayco's docs)

Now if that trailer is like my 166 there will be some holes over the tanks that heat would go into however you must remember thermodynamics, heat rises not sinks...

With that being said the tank heaters that came on mine are 120v, not 12v. So unless I turn on my inverter or use a generator or have shore power they will be of no benefit. I have been in 0deg weather (nights) a few times and no issues. As long as the days are above freezing you should be fine.

Honestly, I have thought about adding my own 12v pads to the bottoms of the tanks and maybe around the drain tubes. They are cheap on amazon and being 12v are VERY easy to install.

Anyway just wanted to bring up the lying salesperson to make sure you had correct info.

[Jagiven]

What kind of weather do you camp in? Water does not instantly freeze at 32 degrees.

We camp all the time well below freezing. We have an open underbelly and no pads. Normally we camp with the lows in the mid 20's and highs in the 40's and never have had any issues. Coldest we have camped is down close to 20 degrees (overnight low), with a daytime high in the mid 30's. Did this for about 5 days. I have to admit I was a bit concerned. In cold weather, I keep my FW tank full as possible. The large thermal mass takes a long time to cool off.

[TWP723]

The Glacier Package has a enclosed underbelly. 120V heating pads are an option. In my opinion, the only reason to "enclose" underneath is an attempt to keep it somewhat climate controlled or heated if you will. The tanks might not be directly heated by pads, but I believe it's warmer than the air outside. Maybe a small duct to allow just enough heat in the belly. Otherwise, enclosing the belly makes no sense.

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

Now if that trailer is like my 166 there will be some holes over the tanks that heat would go into however you must remember thermodynamics, heat rises not sinks...

Well, heat goes to cold. In the open atmosphere that means rising. In an enclosed area, it can go anywhere that is colder.

[GraphiteDriver]

Our TT had the switch location for tank heaters on the control panel, even though they were not an option when we ordered it. So, I spent a weekend installing heating pads on all four tanks (incl fresh water). We have the all weather package with enclosed, heated and insulated underbelly. The insulation consists of a thin blanket of fiberglass insulation between the bottom of the tanks and the corrugated plastic. I probably wouldn't do it again; wasn't worth the effort. There is probably a higher likelihood of waterlines freezing than the several gallons of water in the tanks freezing solid.

[craigav]

I don't think tank heaters actually will keep the water in the tanks noticeably heated, at least not when the temps are very low. I use something similar to the RV tank heaters for some cattle water tubs and what I read is that water tank heaters are designed to keep a warmer spot of unfrozen water above the heater in order to keep the tank from being iced over completely which could crack the sidewalls of the tank. Having an non-frozen column of water allows the ice that does form on top of the water room to expand into which keeps the ice from pushing outwards (expanding) onto the tank sidewalls. Of course if the temp is only a few degrees below freezing, or the freezing temps last only a few hours, then the entire tanks stays liquid with the heater(s). ~CA

[TWP723]

Originally Posted by craigav

I don't think tank heaters actually will keep the water in the tanks noticeably heated, at least not when the temps are very low.

No, they really don't. I think right around freezing (31-33) is the temp a cold tank would reach with pads on a cold December day. Just warm enough to keep crystals from forming.

[DonBr]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

the tank heaters that came on mine are 120v, not 12v.

Just yesterday I corrected someone elsewhere who said that they are 12V so they can be used while boondocking. When queried as to how they knew, it was because the light on the switch came on when turned on while not plugged in!

The tank heaters on the 166, at least, are relayed, and the switch is 12V so it lights up when on just like the electric water heater switch (for those that don't have JayCommand) regardless whether there is 120V power.

It got me wondering about power usage, so I checked solar output and battery monitor, then turned the heaters on (not hooked up, all outlets including tank heaters are on inverter) and it appears they use about 120-125 watts.

[Flashdman11]

I put a BMPro temp gauge under my belly this winter to keep an eye on things since mine also doesn't have pads but forced heat. At 32 degrees outside, the belly would be around 45 degrees. Now this all depends on how high you have your heater set to. Mine was set to 72 degrees most the time. Around 15 to 20 degrees outside is where I became concern with readings approaching 32 underneath. Here in Ks we have sub zeros overnight for weeks, so I stuck a portable heater (with tilt and overheat protection) inside the belly hooked to a temp activated switch that would power on under 45 degrees. This worked like a charm for me all winter.

[mtjag7]

Originally Posted by DonBr

Just yesterday I corrected someone elsewhere who said that they are 12V so they can be used while boondocking. When queried as to how they knew, it was because the light on the switch came on when turned on while not plugged in!

The tank heaters on the 166, at least, are relayed, and the switch is 12V so it lights up when on just like the electric water heater switch (for those that don't have JayCommand) regardless whether there is 120V power.

It got me wondering about power usage, so I checked solar output and battery monitor, then turned the heaters on (not hooked up, all outlets including tank heaters are on inverter) and it appears they use about 120-125 watts.

So, the heating pads work if you have an inverter, but won't work unless you are connected to shore power or a generator?

[DonBr]

Originally Posted by mtjag7

So, the heating pads work if you have an inverter, but won't work unless you are connected to shore power or a generator?

Any of the three, although most Micro owners do not have inverters (they are not an option) and of those who have installed inverters many won't have pads, and with those with inverters and pads most won't have the pad outlets on the inverter circuit! So, a few of us are unique with pads on an inverter circuit. Mine are only on that circuit because I wired all outlets to the inverter circuit.

In any case, running pads on an inverter is a terrible waste of energy in my book, but then I've never been in a situation where tank heat is required (and never expect to be). My old '90 Wanderlodge had tank heaters that were not operational when I got it, but some prior owner had run them heavily with apparently an empty blackwater tank, and after it sprung a leak when we pulled the tank the pattern of the heating circuit in the bottom of the tank was obvious.

[mtjag7]

Originally Posted by DonBr

Any of the three, although most Micro owners do not have inverters (they are not an option) and of those who have installed inverters many won't have pads, and with those with inverters and pads most won't have the pad outlets on the inverter circuit! So, a few of us are unique with pads on an inverter circuit. Mine are only on that circuit because I wired all outlets to the inverter circuit.

In any case, running pads on an inverter is a terrible waste of energy in my book, but then I've never been in a situation where tank heat is required (and never expect to be). My old '90 Wanderlodge had tank heaters that were not operational when I got it, but some prior owner had run them heavily with apparently an empty blackwater tank, and after it sprung a leak when we pulled the tank the pattern of the heating circuit in the bottom of the tank was obvious.

It appears heating pads can be both a curse and a blessing but certainly something to carefully employ. Here in the mountains you can get significant temperature inversions, where the cold air on mountain peaks sink into valleys and can't get out immediately. For instance, we have a lake down in the valley from us that is roughly 1000' lower than our house and the temperature in the winter there can be 30 degrees colder than at our higher altitude. We can be 30F degrees at night and they will be 0F there. I don't expect to be camping in 0F degree weather, but it's good to be prepare for the unexpected.

[DonBr]

I'm sure there are many that need tank heat, either at home, or camping, or both. Just so long as they understand that it will need significant power over the course of a night, either via plugin or generator (discarding the 1% that have massive solar and lots of batteries).

I live in a place that hasn't historically ever been hot, and the few times it has been really cold were before I was born (and I'm 75). The all-time records here are 20 low and 87 high. The 20 was in 1888. I make it a point to never go places that are hot, nor places that are cold. The latter I have a perfect record, but the former I've misjudged a few times!