Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-25-2013, 08:40 PM   #1
Member
 
rdream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 67
Hitch question

I have a 2012 Nissan Titan and we tow a 27 foot White Hawk. When I first put the tongue on the hitch the back of the P/U will drop about three inches. I then use the jack to raise the hitch high enough to put on the WD bars and lower the hitch to the proper alignment. What I want to do to the P/U is put on better springs, shocks or whatever so the rear of the P/U when hitching up doesn’t not drop so much when I hitch up. What is the best way to fix this? or just live with it?
rdream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 09:31 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Jagiven's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,736
Personally I would leave it. If you change the springs and shocks (shocks only dampen the bumps) you may not like the stiffer ride when the TT is not connected. If you want to improve the performance of the springs I would add air bags. This way you have a nice soft ride without the TT and a stiffer/elevated ride with the TT. Just my 2 cents.
__________________

2012 Jayco X23B
2020 Ram Laramie 3500 SRW Air ride 50Gal fuel tank.
2007 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab (sold)
Equal-I-zer 4-Point Sway Control
Jagiven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2013, 10:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North Idaho/Arizona
Posts: 5,446
X2 on the air bags.
clutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 03:27 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by clutch View Post
X2 on the air bags.
X3 they are easy to use and you just release the air from the bags, minimum I believe is 10 lbs in the air bags, when not towing.
Don
Donr827 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2013, 06:58 PM   #5
Member
 
rdream's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 67
Thanks

John
rdream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 07:21 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hillsboro, MO
Posts: 39
I put a Roadmaster Active Suspension kit on my truck and love it. It improved the ride and handling loaded and unloaded, and it helps to keep the rear end from sagging when loaded.
http://www.activesuspension.com/
TheRevJosh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 10:05 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, N.Y.
Posts: 675
Go with the Roadmaster Active Suspension over the air bags.
__________________
Joe, Joyce , 4 Kids and 5 Crazy Dogs.
2017 Chevy 3500 HD Silverado LT Dually 4x4 .
2010 Jayco Jay Flight G-2 32 BHDS[IMG]https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/imagesng
usmc616 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 06:48 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
tinlizzie23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Luray, VA (central Shenandoah Valley of VA)
Posts: 1,430
The whole purpose of WD hitches is to level the TT and TV connection. It seems to me that if you have excessive sagging, the WD needs to be readjusted. I personally would not spend the money on air bags to do the job of the WD hitch that you already have. When I was towing a 29 foot TT with a suburban, it would sag a lot without the WD. But the WD leveled everything out, with no air bags. In some cases, you can actually lift the TT rear wheels off the ground with a WD hitch if it is tight enough, so it should be capable of taking care of your problem, all by itself. JMHO
__________________
2003 Ford F-350 V-10 Crew Cab 4WD Long Bed
2004 Jayco Designer Medallion 29 RLTS 5th wheel
Bill, Gayle, Teddy (Jack Russell terrier), and Honey (Beagle)
Retired at last !

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
tinlizzie23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 07:12 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinlizzie23 View Post
The whole purpose of WD hitches is to level the TT and TV connection. JMHO
No it's not. The purpose of WD is to return weight to the front axle. In no truck manuals or hitch installation instructions will you find any reference to raising the rear of the TV or making it level. Once the appropriate amount of weight has been replaced, that's where you stop. The truck may end up being level, but it's highly unlikely that it will. If you keep tweaking until it's level, you run the risk of returning too much weigh to the front axle and that accelerates tire and suspension component wear.
__________________
2010 22FB(Ret)
2013 F250 XLT
I now have a Keystone Outback, but I try to help when I can.
---------------------
Bitter Gun Owner
Bitter Clinger
Armed Infidel
Bob Landry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 08:05 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
tinlizzie23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Luray, VA (central Shenandoah Valley of VA)
Posts: 1,430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Landry View Post
No it's not. The purpose of WD is to return weight to the front axle. In no truck manuals or hitch installation instructions will you find any reference to raising the rear of the TV or making it level. Once the appropriate amount of weight has been replaced, that's where you stop. The truck may end up being level, but it's highly unlikely that it will. If you keep tweaking until it's level, you run the risk of returning too much weigh to the front axle and that accelerates tire and suspension component wear.
Perhaps I didn't state it properly. I was always under the impression that you were indeed returning weight to the front TV axle by leveling the the TV. In other words, by leveling, you were returning the TV's configuration to approximately what it would be without anything on the hitch. I am certainly not an expert, but after 40 years of towing, it seems to me that if you have sagging at the rear, you are NOT distributing enough weight to the front axle. And I have never in all my years of towing in this manner seen the type of tire and suspension wear you refer to.

I may not be saying this just right, but the reason I posted to begin with is that proper use of the WD hitch should eliminate need for air bags or other suspension mods. Am I wrong about this, too ?
__________________
2003 Ford F-350 V-10 Crew Cab 4WD Long Bed
2004 Jayco Designer Medallion 29 RLTS 5th wheel
Bill, Gayle, Teddy (Jack Russell terrier), and Honey (Beagle)
Retired at last !

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
tinlizzie23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2013, 01:10 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 552
At one time, the general consensus was that the TV should be level. A lot of people signed onto that and it has carried up to the present. That said, the current trend of thought is to transfer the correct amount of weight back to the front axle, and just let the rear take care of itself. I assume that to be accurate because I haven't read in any manuals or instructions anything about getting the TV level or raising the back.
The trailer can be leveled by raising or lowering the hitch accordingly, so that eliminates the need to try to do it with WD. The rear of the TV can be raised, if necessary, with bags, helper springs, etc, but that does not alter either the payload capacity or the axle rating of the TV. It does affect the WD adjustment, as raising the rear of the TV changes the angle of the hitch head, and would therefor change the tension on the WD bars, requiring readjustment of the WD and also the anti-swy if you are using a dual cam setup.

I'm with you, I haven't seen first hand the wear effects of too much weight transfer, but I've read from several sources and from people a lot sharper than me about this stuff say it can and does happen, and I accept that.
One thing that you do run into by trying to raise the rear of the TV with the WD is that to transfer weight to one point, some other place has to give up that weight. The only place that could be would be the rear axle, and by removing weight you would run the risk of a traction loss and depending on the driving conditions, that may not be the best thing to have happen.

There are a couple of really good stickies on RV.net, as well as numerous threads about this that everyone who tows needs to read. One explains how WD works and is done with mathematical explanations that are far beyond my bandwidth. The other explains how to properly set it up. Those guys should be given an honorary PhD in towing because the stickies are that good. Ron Gratz and John Barca have this stuff down to a science.
__________________
2010 22FB(Ret)
2013 F250 XLT
I now have a Keystone Outback, but I try to help when I can.
---------------------
Bitter Gun Owner
Bitter Clinger
Armed Infidel
Bob Landry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 05:34 PM   #12
Lost in the Woods
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: N/A
Posts: 567
Gabriel Highjackers (air shocks) are another option. They are very easy to install as they just replace the existing shocks. Most repair shops can do it.
wwsmith111 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2014, 07:18 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 23
Does the Roadmaster Active Suspension actually help on a heavy duty truck like my F350?
__________________
2003 Ford F350 7.3 Diesel
2014 Jayco Jay Flight 25RKS
RogerF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 07:34 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Orange County, N.Y.
Posts: 675
I have the RAS on my Excursion, the shop who installed it for me has installed them on a fleet of ambulances, they are on 1 ton frames, to help the handling. I really like the improved handling, in the turns, the RAS provides. If you go to their website you can see a video as well as get a more detailed explanation of how it works.
__________________
Joe, Joyce , 4 Kids and 5 Crazy Dogs.
2017 Chevy 3500 HD Silverado LT Dually 4x4 .
2010 Jayco Jay Flight G-2 32 BHDS[IMG]https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/imagesng
usmc616 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2014, 08:08 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Dale Hollow Lake Tn/Ky
Posts: 2,525
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinlizzie23 View Post
Perhaps I didn't state it properly. I was always under the impression that you were indeed returning weight to the front TV axle by leveling the the TV. In other words, by leveling, you were returning the TV's configuration to approximately what it would be without anything on the hitch. I am certainly not an expert, but after 40 years of towing, it seems to me that if you have sagging at the rear, you are NOT distributing enough weight to the front axle. And I have never in all my years of towing in this manner seen the type of tire and suspension wear you refer to.

I may not be saying this just right, but the reason I posted to begin with is that proper use of the WD hitch should eliminate need for air bags or other suspension mods. Am I wrong about this, too ?
Have to agree with you. Let me state it this way, the truck is level when the TT is not hooked up. The truck sags when it is. Wow! I wonder why? Could it be all the tongue weight that was added? Yup!!

The WDH is designed when properly set up, to distribute the weight off the rear to the front axle of the TV. In doing so it tends to level out the TV. The purpose of the hitch may not be to level the TV but that is the practical effect. Air bags or what ever are not necessary when the hitch is properly set up.
Bassdogs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 01:19 PM   #16
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Knoxville
Posts: 51
Guess I'll put my two cents in here from a mechanics perspective. I totally agree with the comments about correctly setting up the WD hitch.

If however after properly setting up the hitch, the TV does not return to somewhat level, the geometry of the TV has changed. Most of the time if the angle from front to rear is not too excessive - no problem. BUT sometimes the angles can make a difference.

If the front to rear changes too much the caster angle of the front may be affected. Caster is not a wear angle but it is used to control wandering and that change can make being passed by an 18 wheeler a true adventure.

The rear being loaded will also cause a change in the driveshaft angle and may cause a vibration only noticed when pulling the TT. It can also cause premature wear of the universal joints and eventually may cause failure of the driveshaft.

I added a set of air-adjustable shocks to my 96' Tahoe even though the ride height did not change much when it was loaded. The complete kit from justsuspensions.com cost me about $60.00 - cheap insurance in my book. I keep them at about 30 psi without the TT and increase the psi to about 90 for towing.

Like I said . . . my 2 cents worth
__________________
Gary & Brenda
2012 JayFlight 22FB
1996 Chevy Tahoe 4X4
NewCamperOldTimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 01:55 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Camper_bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Texas
Posts: 7,206
I've been considering the Roadmaster Active Suspension and am curious to hear what more you guys have to say. Other than "it's great".

Specifically, my WD hitch is setup almost perfectly; verified on CAT scale that I'm 100 lbs short of getting the front axle back to unloaded weight, tongue weight is nearly perfect at 12.8% of loaded trailer weight. I'm near the top of my truck's capacity, but still under. My problem is that it seems like the rear of the truck still bounces quite a bit. Almost like porpoising, but not quite. A lot of the roads we travel are pretty rough thanks to oil tankers and gravel trucks. After we go over a good sized bump, the rear bounces one or two times too many for my comfort before it calms down.

My dad (ASE mechanic for forever and now runs commercial trucks) says suspension add-ons won't help that, but everything I read about RAS says it will. My rear end doesn't sag all that much more than it's supposed to now, so I'm really just looking for something to calm the back of the truck down on rough roads with a full load. I don't want to do airbags because if I do it the way I want, it's going to cost A LOT, and I don't want to have to worry about them.

Thoughts?
__________________

-2018 Greyhawk 29MV
-2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (JLU) (Primary Toad)
-1994 Jeep Wrangler YJ (Secondary Toad)
-2014 Jay Flight 28BHBE & Ram 2500 6.4L CC 4x4 (sold)
Camper_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 02:09 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utah
Posts: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camper_bob View Post
My problem is that it seems lAfter we go over a good sized bump, the rear bounces one or two times too many for my comfort before it calms down.
Controlling the oscillation is all about shocks.

The stock shocks on the Titan are marginal at best, and wear out very quickly(I should know since I have a 2010). Check out the Titan forums. Most people got to the Bilstein 5100 or HDs.
__________________
2014 Ram 2500 Mega Cab Laramie 4x4 6.4L HEMI 4.10s with antispin
2014 Jayco Jay Flight Swift 287BHBE
Equal-i-zer 90-00-1200(new 90-02-4900 shank)
2x Honda 2K
NewBlackDak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 03:19 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewBlackDak View Post
Controlling the oscillation is all about shocks.

The stock shocks on the Titan are marginal at best, and wear out very quickly(I should know since I have a 2010). Check out the Titan forums. Most people got to the Bilstein 5100 or HDs.
You are correct. Also, I see this often going down the road and I want to yell out the window, "you need shocks"! This is true on all makes, stock shocks are not designed for constant heavy loading.
__________________
No man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. Abraham Lincoln

2016 36FBTS Pinnacle
2016 F350, 6.7, 4x4, DRW, long bed
B & W Companion 5th wheel Hitch
eldermike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2014, 03:24 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Camper_bob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: South Texas
Posts: 7,206
Quote:
Originally Posted by eldermike View Post
You are correct. Also, I see this often going down the road and I want to yell out the window, "you need shocks"! This is true on all makes, stock shocks are not designed for constant heavy loading.
So then, getting into the springs will do nothing for me? I was leaning this way (no pun intended) because of the loaded and unloaded benefits many claim from the RAS. (less axle wrap, less body roll, better handling characteristics under load, less wheel hop on washboard roads...) And I don't really want to stiffen the unloaded ride if I don't have to.
__________________

-2018 Greyhawk 29MV
-2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (JLU) (Primary Toad)
-1994 Jeep Wrangler YJ (Secondary Toad)
-2014 Jay Flight 28BHBE & Ram 2500 6.4L CC 4x4 (sold)
Camper_bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Jayco, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.