How well Insulated are pipes?

[SRN2210]

Hello,

We just recently bought a 2021 jayfeather 27rl. We are headed out camping in a couple weeks and it seems the weather doesn't want to cooperate. Lows will be around 28-38 degrees. Is this to cold for the pipes or is the underbelly isolated enough that we will be ok from them freezing? Any help or tips would be great. Thanks so much.

[Jagiven]

Welcome aboard.

The pipes are not insulated. Don't know your model. Most pipes run inside the cabinets. With the doors closed it can be very cool where they are at. If you have a kitchen slide out. You may have exposed waterlines. They will freeze.

If you have an enclosed underbelly, there is a chance your furnace dumps some heat down there.

We camp all the time in the low 20's. Open underbelly,
We've never had any issues. If you have city water connection. Fill your fw tank, for night use. Disconnect your hose when below freezing. I drain it, coil it up, screw the ends together, and place it in the cargo hold. Otherwise it freezes solid, and very stiff to reconnect.

We also leave the cabinet doors ajar that have water pipes running through them. This allows a bit more heat to protect the pipe fitting. Usually it is the fittings that fail and not the pex tube.

Have fun! I wish I could go out this weekend.

[spoon059]

Low of 28? You'll be fine as long as it gets above freezing during the day. To answer, a Jayflight has minimal insulation, but better than nothing. I can't imagine a Jayfeather is any better, and is likely a little worse.

[SRN2210]

Thanks so much.

[SRN2210]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

Welcome aboard.

The pipes are not insulated. Don't know your model. Most pipes run inside the cabinets. With the doors closed it can be very cool where they are at. If you have a kitchen slide out. You may have exposed waterlines. They will freeze.

If you have an enclosed underbelly, there is a chance your furnace dumps some heat down there.

We camp all the time in the low 20's. Open underbelly,
We've never had any issues. If you have city water connection. Fill your fw tank, for night use. Disconnect your hose when below freezing. I drain it, coil it up, screw the ends together, and place it in the cargo hold. Otherwise it freezes solid, and very stiff to reconnect.

We also leave the cabinet doors ajar that have water pipes running through them. This allows a bit more heat to protect the pipe fitting. Usually it is the fittings that fail and not the pex tube.

Have fun! I wish I could go out this weekend.

Thank you and I'll take notes on all you said.

[SRN2210]

Originally Posted by spoon059

Low of 28? You'll be fine as long as it gets above freezing during the day. To answer, a Jayflight has minimal insulation, but better than nothing. I can't imagine a Jayfeather is any better, and is likely a little worse.

Highs are supposed to be low 50s. We do have the glacier package which I'm not exactly sure what that consists of but supposedly to help with cooler Temps. I'm still learning everyday about owning a TT. Overwhelming but am very excited.

[Brownie]

With the Glacier Package, you should be fine. Not a bad idea to turn on the tank heater(s) at night - if your rig has them. Also, follow the advice others here have given - especially the part about disconnecting the city water hose and running off your pump and FW tank overnight.

Enjoy!

[mokurt]

I just got back from Bryce Cannon.
The morning temps got into the 20's.
The only things that froze were the outside water hose ,filter,camp faucet and slide out sink faucet and hoses.

[SRN2210]

Thank you all. Puts my mind more at ease.

[pconroy]

I'll just chime in and agree with what's been posted. We survived one night with a low of 18*F and then did not when it hit 14*F and strong winds. At 14*F and windy, things froze.


I crawled underneath and slide pipe insulation (also used a couple of old Pool Noodles) over as much of the exposed pipes as I could reach. I think I was able to cover 80, 90% of the pipes. I suspect that's why we made it thru an 18* F night.


When it's really cold, there are other concerns beside the water pipes.


If I'm in any doubt, then I just winterize after the last shower before going to bed. I always carry enough RV Antifreeze to cover two winterizing sessions. We like winter camping, so it's easy to just be prepared for a sudden drop in temps.

[SRN2210]

Originally Posted by pconroy

I'll just chime in and agree with what's been posted. We survived one night with a low of 18*F and then did not when it hit 14*F and strong winds. At 14*F and windy, things froze.


I crawled underneath and slide pipe insulation (also used a couple of old Pool Noodles) over as much of the exposed pipes as I could reach. I think I was able to cover 80, 90% of the pipes. I suspect that's why we made it thru an 18* F night.


When it's really cold, there are other concerns beside the water pipes.


If I'm in any doubt, then I just winterize after the last shower before going to bed. I always carry enough RV Antifreeze to cover two winterizing sessions. We like winter camping, so it's easy to just be prepared for a sudden drop in temps.

I plan on taking some antifreeze just in case it the temp dips more than expected. Thanks for chiming in. Love to hear everyone's experiences and tips.

[salsa]

When I camp If the cold water, hot water and fresh water drains are exposed to outside temperatures below freezing I cover them up.

[Zenar]

Insulating pipes doesn't really do much without the water moving.

[JohnnyLee]

Just thinking about a possible 'built-in' idea for preventing the lines from freezing in very cold temperatures...

If the outside shower valves are both ON, that allows the hot water and cold water to constantly mix. Would that possibly be a way of temporarily *helping* to keep the water lines from freezing? You would basically be using the hot water tank to keep the water lines a bit warmer?

Of course, disconnecting the water hose to the park would be the first thing to do. But I'm wonder if anyone has tried the hot/cold water mix trick?


Just a thought.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLee

Just thinking about a possible 'built-in' idea for preventing the lines from freezing in very cold temperatures...

If the outside shower valves are both ON, that allows the hot water and cold water to constantly mix. Would that possibly be a way of temporarily *helping* to keep the water lines from freezing? You would basically be using the hot water tank to keep the water lines a bit warmer?

Of course, disconnecting the water hose to the park would be the first thing to do. But I'm wonder if anyone has tried the hot/cold water mix trick?


Just a thought.

The hot and cold water pressure would be the same, so you wouldn't get much of a mix. However along with your thoughts, you could connect the outside shower hose to the inlet of your RV water tank and turn both the hot and cold faucets on (along with the water pump), that would keep the water moving throughout the system, and if you had plenty of propane\electricity you could keep the water heater running thereby warming the RV's water holding tank a bit. I suspect that would really be costly for the propane\electricity though, but should work in a temporary situation like you mentioned. ~Craig

[CAG]

28 is not low enough to worry about. The lines in the RV will be fine. The outside feed from the hose bib may get some ice so unhook that, drain it and run off of the tank on cold nights. Your problem won't develop with temps in the upper 20's. It will develop from 20 down if it stays that way for long hours.



We elk camp in 10-15F night temps. and have no issues with lines in the RV.

[JohnnyLee]

Originally Posted by craigav

The hot and cold water pressure would be the same, so you wouldn't get much of a mix. However along with your thoughts, you could connect the outside shower hose to the inlet of your RV water tank and turn both the hot and cold faucets on (along with the water pump), that would keep the water moving throughout the system, and if you had plenty of propane\electricity you could keep the water heater running thereby warming the RV's water holding tank a bit. I suspect that would really be costly for the propane\electricity though, but should work in a temporary situation like you mentioned. ~Craig

Clever idea about connecting the outside shower hose to the water inlet. That *should* keep the hot/cold water moving. On our Greyhawk, I would also toggle on both electric AND the propane hot water tank switches as this would greatly increase the hot water recovery time.


This is one of many freezing weather work-arounds but will definitely give this a shot next time we have below freezing nights.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by CAG

28 is not low enough to worry about. The lines in the RV will be fine. The outside feed from the hose bib may get some ice so unhook that, drain it and run off of the tank on cold nights. Your problem won't develop with temps in the upper 20's. It will develop from 20 down if it stays that way for long hours.



We elk camp in 10-15F night temps. and have no issues with lines in the RV.

Completely agree!


In ours, we can survive into the low 20's, high teens without worry. We did freeze up at 14*F but it was very windy. Any residual heat build up under our motorhome was quickly blown away.


As mentioned, a small electric heater goes in our "basement" where the pump, filter, valves are. On "low" it'll keep the area in the 70's (*F).

[Johnynorthland]

Originally Posted by mokurt

I just got back from Bryce Cannon.
The morning temps got into the 20's.
The only things that froze were the outside water hose ,filter,camp faucet and slide out sink faucet and hoses.

Don’t mean to hijack this post, but OP seems to have his answeres.

Mokurt, I guess you stayed in the canyon? We’re on our way to Zion River campgrounds, with a few stops along the way we will be there in 15 or so days. Will temps be that low then?. It’s my first time there but it’s bot the first time we froze over in our Redhawk!

[jmathia1]

I have same TT. I put pipe insulator over the couple of exposed drain vales and plastic line underneath the trailer. This was my first winter with this unit. Had drained the water heater tank, RV antifreeze in the bathroom and kitchen drains, cracked open cabinets and survived week long temps at 28 degrees with no issue.

Live on the coast so really only get these temps rarely. Grateful I survived it since this is my first TT.