Is total Payload the payload Minus Tongue Weight?

[Teknos]

I tried searching the forum, but could not find the answer. Question in BOLD below

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Hello All! First Post, and some background. I purchased a new to me 2013 Jayco 154BH paired with my 2018 Tacoma 4x4 Dual Cab.

Learned a lot on these forums (many months of lurking), but I have a question. I have been weighing my trailer contents, and making a detailed list. Making sure I don't overload the payload on the trailer, or the truck, has been more difficult than imagined. I plan on driving across the USA this winter to find a place to call my winter home (COVID Border rules pending of course!)
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Here is the question:
The Payload on my 2013 Jayco 154BH is 750lbs. All my contents weigh 740lbs (too close for comfort). However, I am anticipating around 400lbs of the total weight being sent to the tongue, and about 110lbs of that being from the payload. If 110lbs of the payload is being transferred to the hitch, would I have around 120lbs still available for extra payload? (740lb payload minus 110lbs to the tongue, = 630lbs total payload being on the trailer axle, and 120lbs of payload left ). Or am I dreaming of how this works?

I know I am "fine" either way with this weight as I'm in the limits, but knowing if I have 10lbs of payload capacity free versus 120lbs makes a big difference for my peace of mind.

Thank you in advance!

[stateboy]

I believe you're thinking may be off a little bit. Just to exaggerate the situation, if you were to put 800 lb of weight up at the front of your trailer sitting on the tongue, your thinking suggests that you would be able to add another 750 lb to the trailer since the first 800 pounds are being held up by your truck at the tongue.

I believe the payload for your trailer is taking into consideration what the frame is capable of handling without being over stressed along with the suspension components and their ratings. Let's wait and see with others who have better expertise to chime in to see if we can get a more accurate answer.

[sciencenerd]

The payload is the GVWR of your trailer (listed on the sticker) minus the dry weight (also listed on the sticker). With small trailers like yours, you have to be VERY careful to not overload the axle. If I were you, I'd check the maximum axle rating.

To give you an example: We used to have a Starcraft 18BHS. The GVWR was 3,850 lbs. The dry weight was 3,200 lbs, leaving a payload of 650 lbs (not much). The problem was that the axle rating was 3,500 lbs. How could that be? Well, the rest of the GVWR was the tongue weight of 350 lbs. So, you see that the axle rating was very marginal, especially considering that the weight distribution hitch shifts some weight back to the trailer axle. Sure enough, we ended up overloading the axle and bending it.

Our new trailer, a Jayco x213 has a 5,500 lbs GVWR, with a dual axle of 3,000 lbs rating each. Therefore, the axles have a lot more safety margins, before they are overloaded. Live and learn....

[ttavasc]

As has been mentioned, the smaller SLX 7 trailers have very little cargo capacity so care must be taken to avoid overloading them. Our '15 195RB Baja had 735 lbs cargo and we used pretty much all of it. There are some things you can do to help alleviate the issue.

First, how much payload does your Tacoma have? If there is sufficient payload available after all occupants and cargo in the truck plus tongue weight is applied you can move some cargo from the trailer to the truck, reducing the weight of the trailer.

Second, you will need to minimize the amount of fresh water that you carry in the trailer. We only put about 5 gallons in the fresh water tank when traveling - enough the use the facilities and so forth while traveling between destinations.

Third, going back to payload on the Tacoma - if there is sufficient capacity there to handle a higher tongue weight then try and load the trailer contents well forward of the axle so that the tongue weight trends towards 13-15% of loaded trailer weight which will help reduce the load on the trailer axle a bit. With the single-axle trailers I always liked to run with the tongue about an inch or so below level. You don't want the tongue to be above level and you don't want it to be too light.

Our 195RB had a GVWR of 3750 and we ran it about 3700 loaded with 3220 of that on the trailer axle which was a 3500 lb axle. So the tongue weight was 480 which was around 13% of loaded trailer weight. It towed really well and over 5 years/25K miles we never had any axle issues.

Another important item to do once you think you have things balanced out and loaded appropriately is to run the whole setup over the CAT scale and get verified weights. Here is a link to a thread with details about that process:

https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...v-tt-3871.html

[Teknos]

Figured this out.

Basically what you said regarding the Axle.

GVWR - 3200lbs
GAWR - 3000lbs (Axle Rating, confirmed with sticker on axle)
Dry Weight - 2450lbs
Tire Rating - 1360/side (2720lbs) Load Rating C
Dry Tongue Weight - 260lbs
Payload Rating - 750lbs (Without Propane Tank)

All that really matters, is you do not load the Axle past 3000lbs, and the fact the factory tires are rated too low. I'll need to find a replacement solution to this.

It will be nearly impossible to load the full 750lbs and perfectly distribute the weight. You need to load up the tongue to exactly 460lbs. But still have an issue of overloading the factory tires.

I'm adjusted for 645lbs payload on the trailer, and 855lbs on the Tacoma (4x4 quad cab only rated for 1000lbs). Almost half the Tacoma is basically tongue weight, the rest people/dog weight, with a few things put in the Tacoma. I'll need to remove the Canopy (~200lbs) just to make this work, otherwise I'll be overloaded. Likely transfer a bit more weight to the truck to be extra cautious on the tires/axle. I feel like I'm preparing a shuttle launch, figuring which parts of the trailer I can cut out to save a few pounds to carry an extra set of utensils.

Walking through the last few campsites I've been at, I'm fairly certain most of the small trucks and SUV's are well overloaded. I guess I'll go on a diet to lose 10lbs so I can carry a bit more

These small vehicles are just that. Small. Even looking at many of the larger trailers out there that the Tacoma could reasonably pull, payloads and axles ratings are pretty low. Would have the same problem with how they are all manufactured.

Thank you for all the replies!!!

Originally Posted by sciencenerd

The payload is the GVWR of your trailer (listed on the sticker) minus the dry weight (also listed on the sticker). With small trailers like yours, you have to be VERY careful to not overload the axle. If I were you, I'd check the maximum axle rating.

To give you an example: We used to have a Starcraft 18BHS. The GVWR was 3,850 lbs. The dry weight was 3,200 lbs, leaving a payload of 650 lbs (not much). The problem was that the axle rating was 3,500 lbs. How could that be? Well, the rest of the GVWR was the tongue weight of 350 lbs. So, you see that the axle rating was very marginal, especially considering that the weight distribution hitch shifts some weight back to the trailer axle. Sure enough, we ended up overloading the axle and bending it.

Our new trailer, a Jayco x213 has a 5,500 lbs GVWR, with a dual axle of 3,000 lbs rating each. Therefore, the axles have a lot more safety margins, before they are overloaded. Live and learn....

[sciencenerd]

Originally Posted by Teknos

Figured this out.

Basically what you said regarding the Axle.

GVWR - 3200lbs
GAWR - 3000lbs (Axle Rating, confirmed with sticker on axle)
Dry Weight - 2450lbs
Tire Rating - 1360/side (2720lbs) Load Rating C
Dry Tongue Weight - 260lbs
Payload Rating - 750lbs (Without Propane Tank)

All that really matters, is you do not load the Axle past 3000lbs, and the fact the factory tires are rated too low. I'll need to find a replacement solution to this.

It will be nearly impossible to load the full 750lbs and perfectly distribute the weight. You need to load up the tongue to exactly 460lbs. But still have an issue of overloading the factory tires.

I'm adjusted for 645lbs payload on the trailer, and 855lbs on the Tacoma (4x4 quad cab only rated for 1000lbs). Almost half the Tacoma is basically tongue weight, the rest people/dog weight, with a few things put in the Tacoma. I'll need to remove the Canopy (~200lbs) just to make this work, otherwise I'll be overloaded. Likely transfer a bit more weight to the truck to be extra cautious on the tires/axle. I feel like I'm preparing a shuttle launch, figuring which parts of the trailer I can cut out to save a few pounds to carry an extra set of utensils.

Walking through the last few campsites I've been at, I'm fairly certain most of the small trucks and SUV's are well overloaded. I guess I'll go on a diet to lose 10lbs so I can carry a bit more

These small vehicles are just that. Small. Even looking at many of the larger trailers out there that the Tacoma could reasonably pull, payloads and axles ratings are pretty low. Would have the same problem with how they are all manufactured.

Thank you for all the replies!!!

You are a quick learner!

When we had our 18BHS, we pulled with a silverado 1500, with a 1,700 lbs payload, so I could offload quite some stuff into the truck. My mistake was to always travel with full fresh water tank, I think this is what got us over the payload limit and eventually bent the axle. With our new trailer, we travel with little water in the tank. It's a pain to fill up before setting up at the campsite, but it is what it is...

[Finally Able]

You should really go across a CAT scale before trusting sticker numbers. Load the truck with gear you'll be stowing in it as well as your expected passengers, and fill the tank. Load the trailer as though you were camping, including filling the fresh water tank if you'll be toting it. There are excellent threads in these forums to see how to use a CAT scale, which will provide much useful info: combined weights, gross weight of loaded trailer,, axle loads, etc. from which you can calculate tongue weight. Shift weight around -- within and between the 2 vehicles and re-scale to reach the desired weights. Remember to check max weights for rear axle and tongue listed on the driver door pillar stickers.

(I did it your way the 1st time -- weighing each item added to the trailer, but eventually used CAT scale to see what I was doing wrong.)