My Weights

[Tone]

So I hit the cat scales over the weekend fully loaded and gassed up. Any constructive feedback on my weights or possible wdh adjustments? Tongue weight seems a bit high if I'm calculating correctly at 1620. Thanks in advance!

TV:
Front GAWR - 5200
Rear GAWR - 6100
GVWR - 10,000
Tire Payload - 1877

TV Only Weights:
Steer axle - 5000
Drive axle - 3420
Gross - 8420

TV with WDH Bars:
Steer axle - 4520
Drive axle - 5460
Trailer axle - 8940
Gross - 18,920

TV without WDH Bars:
Steer axle - 4320
Drive axle - 5720
Trailer axle - 8840
Gross - 18,880

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Tone

snip,,,,, Tongue weight seems a bit high if I'm calculating correctly at 1620........snip

Your math is correct, 1,620lb loaded tongue weight based on your present loaded TT conditions at the CAT. Your TT loaded gross weight is 10,460lbs so your ideal loaded tongue weight would be 1,360lbs to 1,569lbs (13% to 15%)......., so your 1,620lbs is close to ideal for your loaded 338RETS. The 2016 338RETS GVWR is 10,950lbs.

Your TV loaded gross weight (WDH engaged) is 9,980lbs (TV GVWR is 10,000lbs).

TV steer axle: (5,000lb - 4,320lb) = 680lbs removed..., (4,520lb - 4,320lb) = 200lbs actually returned. You still need to transfer some more weight to your TV's steer axle..., IMO at least another 300lbs.

NOTE: Returning as close to 100% of the weight removed from the steer axle IMO is ideal......, but some manufactures give some allowance on the 100% figure, but, they state it in terms of "returned front suspension height" (25% height, 50% height, etc.), check your owners manual. I found with my 2500HD TV that 50% front suspension height return doesn't equal 50% weight return...... it was less.

What is the weight rating of your WDH?

Also, if your TV has the OEM 2 1/2" receiver pin box, please note that using a 2" pin box insert to accommodate a 2" draw bar reduces the TV's OEM receiver's stamped WDH weight rating capacity.

Just food for thought......., and please double check my math!

Bob

[DanNJanice]

Could you run through the math on how you ended up at 1620lbs? I do not seem to be able to find the correct combination of weights to come up with that number and I have always been pretty good at math.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by DanNJanice

Could you run through the math on how you ended up at 1620lbs? .....snip

Sure: (4,320lbs + 5,720lbs) = 10,040lbs...., (10,040lbs - 8,420lbs) = 1,620lbs

Bob

[Tone]

Thanks very much for the feedback, Rustic. I agree I could use some more transferred up front. Truck sagged a bit in the back but I didn't think it looked horrible. I'll look into the wdh adjustment. I'm running the equalizer with 14k bars.

DanNJanice - I used the total axle weights of the TV from the third weigh minus the first weigh TV gross weight based on this thread.

http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html

[DanNJanice]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Sure: (4,320lbs + 5,720lbs) = 10,040lbs...., (10,040lbs - 8,420lbs) = 1,620lbs

Bob

Thanks, sometimes am not very bright

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by DanNJanice

Thanks, ......snip

I appreciate you checking my math, it's easy to get the CAT cert weights mixed up....., been there, done it !!

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Tone,

Originally Posted by Tone

snip..... Truck sagged a bit in the back but I didn't think it looked horrible.....snip

Fairly common for a TV to experience a 1" to 2" rear fender sag even after a WDH is dialed-in correctly.

Originally Posted by Tone

snip.... I'm running the equalizer with 14k bars.....snip

I assume you are referring to the Equal-i-zer brand WDH, which means it's rated at 1,400lb maximum tongue weight. I'm confident it will handle your 1,620lb tongue weight....., but like any WDH when the WDH tongue weight rating is exceeded one "may" experience difficulty transferring/maintaining the exceeded weight to the TV's steering axle. Not all TV/TT combinations react the same with WDH adjustments, so your experience may differ.

If you find it difficult to transfer your target weight to the TV's front axle.., try relocating some of the TT's front cargo thus reducing the loaded tongue weight effect.

Bob

[bankr63]

I'm confused by the tire payload rating provided. From the sidewall? Of the TV or TT?
In either case, it seems to me that you are exceeding the tire capacity on the steer axle (and drive axle unless duallies), or if that is the trailer capacity, then it is being exceeded there too.

[Tone]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

I assume you are referring to the Equal-i-zer brand WDH, which means it's rated at 1,400lb maximum tongue weight. I'm confident it will handle your 1,620lb tongue weight....., but like any WDH when the WDH tongue weight rating is exceeded one "may" experience difficulty transferring/maintaining the exceeded weight to the TV's steering axle. Not all TV/TT combinations react the same with WDH adjustments, so your experience may differ.

If you find it difficult to transfer your target weight to the TV's front axle.., try relocating some of the TT's front cargo thus reducing the loaded tongue weight effect.

Bob

Correct, equalizer brand with the 1400 rated bars. And I did actually pack more stuff in the back on the return trip and things did "feel" a little better, but it could have been in my head too. Looks like I have a few adjustments to make not only to hitch but also how I pack...

[Tone]

Originally Posted by bankr63

I'm confused by the tire payload rating provided. From the sidewall? Of the TV or TT?
In either case, it seems to me that you are exceeding the tire capacity on the steer axle (and drive axle unless duallies), or if that is the trailer capacity, then it is being exceeded there too.

It's the "combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed..." number from the yellow tire sticker in the door jam. I think the axle capacities are ok given the trucks GAWR numbers, but at 1620 tongue weight plus 300 lbs of two passengers and a few other things thrown in the truck, I would be a bit over payload capacity and will need to review my packing strategy.

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by Tone

It's the "combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed..." number from the yellow tire sticker in the door jam. I think the axle capacities are ok given the trucks GAWR numbers, but at 1620 tongue weight plus 300 lbs of two passengers and a few other things thrown in the truck, I would be a bit over payload capacity and will need to review my packing strategy.

Ah, got it. Just haven't seen it stated that way.

That number doesn't seem to jibe with what your weights are telling you though. Your GVW should really be your front and rear GAWR combined, but it is lower as stated. Your payload or CCC should be the GVW minus curb weight.

Assuming your truck was fully loaded and had passengers already onboard when you crossed the scales, the stated number is too low. I would worry most about the two GAWR ratings above anything else, and you are fine on both of those with or without the WDH bars engaged.

Agree with Rustic Eagle though that you want your steer axle to come out to about the same weight after WDH as unloaded so that your vehicle handles properly. I had to make some fairly large changes to my hitch head angle (more washers) to get the weights where I wanted them. The dealer did a horrible job with initial setup (no surprise there), but following the WDH directions I got it dialled in easily. It would be nice if the dealer would actually follow the manufacturer directions...

[Tone]

Originally Posted by bankr63

Agree with Rustic Eagle though that you want your steer axle to come out to about the same weight after WDH as unloaded so that your vehicle handles properly. I had to make some fairly large changes to my hitch head angle (more washers) to get the weights where I wanted them. The dealer did a horrible job with initial setup (no surprise there), but following the WDH directions I got it dialled in easily. It would be nice if the dealer would actually follow the manufacturer directions...

Definitely. I had zero faith in the dealer setting it up so I've been doing a lot of research and finally had a good time to weigh in. Will be making adjustments and re-weigh next time out.

[ctbailey]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

...
Also, if your TV has the OEM 2 1/2" receiver pin box, please note that using a 2" pin box insert to accommodate a 2" draw bar reduces the TV's OEM receiver's stamped WDH weight rating capacity.....

Rustic, I've wondered about that. My reasoning is due to the extra slop that occurs with the bloody adapter. I absolutely hate that darn thing, it makes the connection just too loose. And subsequently, the slop has translated into slight oblonging of the pin holes.

I've attempted to move up to a 2.5 inch draw bar, but the Reese Titan that Etrailer carries did not offer enough drop for my setup. I would have had to look into an axle flip.

So my next thought is to weld the adapter onto my 2" draw bar. So you suppose a welded sleeve/draw bar assembly would undo the de-rating?

Back to the thread: I also agree the front axle on the truck should "see" the same load that it normally sees while unloaded. The heavy springs of a one ton will not react like a half ton, so the 50% measurement isn't the best approach when dialing in a WDH.




Craig Bailey
New England
2007 Chevy 2500HD crew
2015 Jayco Jayflight 32BHDS

[jsallman1]

Originally Posted by ctbailey

Rustic, I've wondered about that. My reasoning is due to the extra slop that occurs with the bloody adapter. I absolutely hate that darn thing, it makes the connection just too loose. And subsequently, the slop has translated into slight oblonging of the pin holes.

I've attempted to move up to a 2.5 inch draw bar, but the Reese Titan that Etrailer carries did not offer enough drop for my setup. I would have had to look into an axle flip.

Look into this one, I know you mentioned you have the Reese but a lot of the shanks are interchangeable with other brands. Big thing is the hole spacing. This one works fine with my Ram 2500 4x4, which I think is higher than the OEM GM's, my Axles are underslung and the nose is slightly down. https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...0-02-4900.html Curt makes a shank too that I think would have done the trick. I bet e-trailer can tell you if this will work or not.

[Rustic Eagle]

Craig,

I agree, those 2" inserts play havoc on 2 1/2" receiver pin boxes.

Originally Posted by ctbailey

snip..... I've attempted to move up to a 2.5 inch draw bar, but the Reese Titan that Etrailer carries did not offer enough drop for my setup.......snip

I purchased the CURT 2 1/2" shank that tapered to accepted my REESE 15k ball mount a couple months ago for my TV. I did have to incorporate a two shims (.010 & .020)...., but that can happen with any ball mount/shank combination.

I "believe" using my GM 2" insert with my GM OEM 2 1/2" receiver gave me only 1,200lbs maximum, and I have a 1,300lb loaded tongue weight.

CURT Shank: CURT Manufacturing - CURT Weight Distribution Shank #17128

CURT Shank @ etrailer: https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...rt/C17128.html

My JOF ball mount/shank shim thread: http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...y-38323-2.html

Originally Posted by ctbailey

snip.....So my next thought is to weld the adapter onto my 2" draw bar. So you suppose a welded sleeve/draw bar assembly would undo the de-rating?.......snip

Good question, and I don't have a good answer.

Bob

[ctbailey]

Thanks guys, maybe I'll try curt. I actually ordered and had shipped the Titan, only to have to ship it back, And 35 pound packages don't ship cheap.

My GM with the Z71 package appears to be high, but I agree: rams do sometimes appear even higher.


Craig Bailey
New England
2007 Chevy 2500HD crew
2015 Jayco Jayflight 32BHDS

[stickywicket]

If you have coil springs SD truck supply makes an air bag from air lift that fits inside the spring works great.