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Old 10-06-2018, 11:02 PM   #1
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New WD Bars, hit the scales

Went back to the cat scales after changing BlueOx SwayPro bars from 2K to 1500lbs.

I got my new lighter poundage Blue Ox WD Bars in today. I was sold 2K lb bars at the dealership and Blue Ox graciously sent me 1500lb bars and I am sending the 2k ones back. Check our the changes in the set up, even with a slightly more loaded camper from last trip and a full tank of gas. My goal is to get the front axle down in weight so I need to adjust my hitch set up. Check out the lighter loaded tongue weight. That is a head scratcher with more cargo in the camper.

Today I went back to the Cat Scales and got 3 new weighs in's with the new 1500lb bars.


1st Weigh TV SOLO . (2017 F150 3.5EB 10sp tranny) .
Front 3260
Rear 2620

total 5880 lbs (20lbs less than first test from below)
-----------------------------

#2
TV with TT and WD bars engaged
TV Front 3120 (down 40 lbs from last test)
TV Rear 3720 . (down 100 lbs from last test)
TT Axle 7040 (up 340 lbs from last test) . (more gear loaded)

Total 13,880 . (400 lb more than last test) .
-----------------------------

#3
TV with TT no WD bars engaged
TV Front 2800 (up 20 lbs from last test)
TV Rear 4240 . (up 100lbs from last test)
TT Axle 6840 . (up 300lbs from last test)

Total 13,880 . (up 420lbs from last test)

----------------------------

**Loaded TT weight: (2nd weigh TV/TT gross weight) minus (1st weigh TV gross weight).

=8000 lbs . (up 420 lbs from last test)

**Loaded Tongue weight: (3rd weigh TV axle weights) minus (1st weigh TV gross weight). Tongue weight should be 10% -15% of loaded TT weight (13%-15% on longer TT’s).

= 960 lbs . (down 60 lbs from last tests)

************************************************** ********
BELOW ARE THE FIRST TESTS WITH THE 2K WD BARS

The reason I did this was bc I wanted to know what my true weights were and see if I have too much WD bars (2k lbs ) vs the ones I probably need are more like 1500lbs bars. Anywho, here are my numbers (2017 F150 and 2019 White Hawk 29BH)

1st Weigh TV SOLO
Front 3260
Rear 2640

total 5900 lbs
-----------------------------

#2
TV with TT and WD bars engaged
TV Front 3160
TV Rear 3620
TT Axle 6700

Total 13,480
-----------------------------

#3
TV with TT no WD bars engaged
TV Front 2780
TV Rear 4140
TT Axle 6540

Total 13,460

----------------------------
**Loaded TT weight: (2nd weigh TV/TT gross weight) minus (1st weigh TV gross weight).

=7580lbs

**Loaded Tongue weight: (3rd weigh TV axle weights) minus (1st weigh TV gross weight). Tongue weight should be 10% -15% of loaded TT weight (13%-15% on longer TT’s).

=1020 lbs

Hope this helps anyone. To me, it always helps knowing what is going on back there.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:06 AM   #2
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rollingrockTX,

Again, nice work at the CAT Scale!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollingrockTX View Post
snip....... Check out the lighter loaded tongue weight. That is a head scratcher with more cargo in the camper..... snip ........
**Loaded Tongue weight: (3rd weigh TV axle weights) minus (1st weigh TV gross weight). Tongue weight should be 10% -15% of loaded TT weight (13%-15% on longer TT’s). = 960 lbs. (down 60 lbs from last tests).....snip
I get: (2,800 + 4,240 .... 3rd weigh) - (5,880) = 1,160lbs Loaded tongue weight (up 140lbs from last weigh-in)

It appears you mistakenly used the TV axle weights with the spring bars "engaged" (your 2nd weigh)....., thus the 960lb result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rollingrockTX View Post
snip......To me, it always helps knowing what is going on back there
I agree 100%!

Bob
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:09 AM   #3
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Quote:
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rollingrockTX,

Again, nice work at the CAT Scale!



I get: (2,800 + 4,240) - (5,880) = 1,160lbs Loaded tongue weight (up 140lbs from last weigh-in)

It appears you mistakenly used the TV axle weights with the spring bars "engaged" (your 2nd weigh)....., thus the 960lb result.

Bob
Thanks, yeah I caught that one too. What I am trying to do is get some weight off the front steer axle, so I am going to drop a link and see if that helps.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:24 AM   #4
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snip......What I am trying to do is get some weight off the front steer axle, so I am going to drop a link and see if that helps.
Why do you want to remove more weight off the TV's front axle...., your "TV only" front axle weight is 3,260lbs......., and your TV's front axle weight with "WDH engaged" is 3,120lbs. You went from 2,800lbs to 3,120lbs with your present WDH adjustment, great improvement.

IMO you would be ok "as is" rather then removing more weight from your 3,120b adjustment...., but you could transfer a little more weight to the TV's front axle via WDH adjustment (not exceeding 3,260lbs).

If your latest CAT Scale visit results didn't include passengers, I might tend to think your WDH adjustment is fine "as-is".

Just a FYI, your present 1,160lb loaded tongue weight represents 14.5% of your gross 8,000lb TT weight..., which is ideal.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:33 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rollingrockTX View Post
Went back to the cat scales after changing BlueOx SwayPro bars from 2K to 1500lbs.

I got my new lighter poundage Blue Ox WD Bars in today. I was sold 2K lb bars at the dealership and Blue Ox graciously sent me 1500lb bars and I am sending the 2k ones back. Check our the changes in the set up, even with a slightly more loaded camper from last trip and a full tank of gas. My goal is to get the front axle down in weight so I need to adjust my hitch set up. Check out the lighter loaded tongue weight. That is a head scratcher with more cargo in the camper . . .
Kudos for taking the time to take your rig to the scales to retrieve all this data. Definitely informative and helpful in terms of quantifying the effectiveness of your WDH.

What was your front axle weight goal with the WDH installed?

Your empty front axle weight was 3,260 lbs. Most folks tension their WDH to match the front axle weight empty. The 2k bars got you closer to achieving 3,260 lbs. on the front axle then the 1.5k. However, without the ability to quantify the exact manual tension you placed on the 1.5k (and 2k) bars it's hard to know exactly what kind of comparison we're actually making. It takes a *lot* of force to tension some bars to their maximum capacity.

As for why a trailer's tongue weight would decrease when its gross weight increased, it's reasonable to assume some of this additional gross weight was placed towards the very rear of the trailer (behind the trailer's axles). This would increase a trailer's gross weight while decreasing its tongue weight.

In any case, looks like you have approx. 1,100 lbs. of tongue weight. At the very least you should get get a more relaxed, less stiff ride with the 1.5k bars vs. the 2k bars.
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Old 10-07-2018, 12:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
Why do you want to remove more weight off the TV's front axle...., your "TV only" front axle weight is 3,260lbs......., and your TV's front axle weight with "WDH engaged" is 3,120lbs. You went from 2,800lbs to 3,120lbs with your present WDH adjustment, great improvement.

IMO you would be ok "as is" rather then removing more weight from your 3,120b adjustment...., but you could transfer a little more weight to the TV's front axle via WDH adjustment (not exceeding 3,260lbs).

If your latest CAT Scale visit results didn't include passengers, I might tend to think your WDH adjustment is fine "as-is".

Just a FYI, your present 1,160lb loaded tongue weight represents 14.5% of your gross 8,000lb TT weight..., which is ideal.

Bob
I was going off of this recomendation:

"TV Front Axle weight transfer: Most TV manufactures recommend that when using a WDH that the TV’s front axle weight be returned to it’s “unhitched” loaded axle weight; so the 2nd weigh steering axle weight should be the same as the 1st weigh steering axle weight. If the 2nd weigh steering axle weight is plus/minus 50 lbs (weight variable I use), then the WDH is adjusted correctly. If the weight difference is larger than 50 lbs either way, re-adjustment of the WDH should be considered. If the weight difference approaches/exceeds 100 lbs, re-adjustment of the WDH should be preformed".

I show 140 difference in my weights so I was looking to adjust but if you think we are good, then I will not mess with it anymore.
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Old 10-07-2018, 01:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rollingrockTX View Post
I was going off of this recomendation:

"TV Front Axle weight transfer: Most TV manufactures recommend that when using a WDH that the TV’s front axle weight be returned to it’s “unhitched” loaded axle weight; so the 2nd weigh steering axle weight should be the same as the 1st weigh steering axle weight. If the 2nd weigh steering axle weight is plus/minus 50 lbs (weight variable I use), then the WDH is adjusted correctly. If the weight difference is larger than 50 lbs either way, re-adjustment of the WDH should be considered. If the weight difference approaches/exceeds 100 lbs, re-adjustment of the WDH should be preformed".

I show 140 difference in my weights so I was looking to adjust but if you think we are good, then I will not mess with it anymore.
It looks to me like you are really over your RAWR and either really close or over your hitch rating. In both cases, I would try to be at 13% TW on a F150.
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Old 10-07-2018, 03:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
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snip..... I show 140 difference in my weights so I was looking to adjust but if you think we are good, then I will not mess with it anymore.
rollingrockTX,

Your correct, the CAT reflects a 140lb delta that was initially a 460lb delta, thus my prior post comment... "great improvement". I tend to use the 100lb delta reference point when adjusting a WDH as well..., keeping in mind that a CAT scale has a certified plus/minus 40lb tolerance.

Referencing your 2017 F-150 Owners Manual - Towing Section....; when making WDH adjustments Ford doesn't require a 100% front suspension unhitched condition return when utilizing the "fender height measurement" process (references a 25% height return)...., thus one might conclude that this also applies to the "weight measurement" process (CAT scale) to some degree short of 100% weight return. I believe your present WDH adjustment would fall within your Owners Manual guidelines based on your CAT scale results.

Also, due to different suspension 'settling' characteristics from one vehicle to another, just driving a TV/TT combination around the block and back on the CAT scale one could experience some minor TV axle weight fluctuations.

I'm old school when it comes to a WDH adjustment, I look for returning my TV's front suspension's steering, braking, and handling characteristics as close as possible to it's "unhitched" state when towing.

Bob
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:30 PM   #9
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Pretty sure the Ford manual goes by measuring the fender wells truck only, and then with the TT attached with the bars engaged. You should probably look in your owners manual as Ford has changed the recommended variances for your MY truck.
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