Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2013, 06:03 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 59
Plug in power vs. battery power

Sorry for the dumb question, but can someone tell me what on a 32BHDH (or on a typical travel trailer) is powered by the 12 volt battery and what is powered by the 30A plug?

If I'm parked seasonally a a site, do I even need to have a battery connected, or are some things not powered by the 30A plug?
__________________

turkii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 06:30 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 1,435
Plug in power vs. battery power

First, no dumb questions.

Anything that is 12-volt CAN be powered by battery, but will be powered by your converter if you are plugged into 30amp electric.

Some typical 12-volt items on TT include, ceiling lights, slide motors, furnace, water pump, range hood light/fan, bathroom fan, etc.

Some typical items that are only powered by shore power (30amp) would be the electric outlets and air conditioning.

In my opinion, having a battery is important even on a seasonal site, in case of power outages.
__________________

__________________
2013 Jayco JayFlight 26RKS
2013 Ford F150 Ecoboost FX4

2003 Coleman Bayside / 2011 Jayco Jayfeather X20E -- RIP
2012 Tacoma Sport DCSB / 2013 Tundra SR5 - RIP
Heady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2013, 07:09 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
RoyBraddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: King George
Posts: 2,397
This is a wiring configuration for a typical 30AMP trailer system

__________________
Roy and Carolyn
I claim Horse Creek Country in Southern Ill - Momabear is from North Texas
We live in King George VA
RETIRED DOD DOAF DON CONTRACTOR Electronics Tech 42YRS

"We're burning daylight" - John Wayne
2008 STARCRAFT 14RT OFF-ROAD POPUP with PD9260C and three 85AH 12VDC batteries
2010 F150 FX4 5.4 GAS with 3.73 gears - Super Cab - Towing Package - 2KW Honda EU2000i Gen
K9PHT (since 1957) 146.52Mhz
"We always have a PLAN B"
RoyBraddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 02:20 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Renton
Posts: 516
Converters provide 12vdc power to charge batteries and power the 12 v part of the coach. They are not designed to be run without a battery.
__________________
Michael
Old setup:
2004 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 LT with a 2004 Jayco JayFlight 29BHS
2014 Greyhawk 31FS with a 2007 Tahoe toad
New setup:
2014 Thor Palazzo 33.3 with a 2007 Tahoe toad
msturtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 02:56 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Threebutchers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 6,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by msturtz View Post
They are not designed to be run without a battery.
That depends - check your owners manual. My WFCO Converter Manual states it is not necessary to have a battery connected.

That said, I would still keep a battery connected for the convenience of having lights and radio if the seasonal CG power ever goes out.
Threebutchers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 06:02 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 106
Pretty sure This is correct....if the 110 system goes down....don't you need the 12 volt power to ignite the propane system to keep your refrigerator cooling? Correct me if I'm wrong.
__________________
2012 Eagle Lite 298RLDS

On Permanent site at Gillies Lake, Bruce Peninsula
LilBigfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 08:16 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Renton
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilBigfoot View Post
Pretty sure This is correct....if the 110 system goes down....don't you need the 12 volt power to ignite the propane system to keep your refrigerator cooling? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes you do.
__________________
Michael
Old setup:
2004 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 LT with a 2004 Jayco JayFlight 29BHS
2014 Greyhawk 31FS with a 2007 Tahoe toad
New setup:
2014 Thor Palazzo 33.3 with a 2007 Tahoe toad
msturtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2013, 08:30 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Renton
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threebutchers View Post
That depends - check your owners manual. My WFCO Converter Manual states it is not necessary to have a battery connected.

That said, I would still keep a battery connected for the convenience of having lights and radio if the seasonal CG power ever goes out.
The problem isn't with the converter per se. It won't "damage" the converter to run the coach without a battery however most RV manufacturers install more 12 V loads than the converter can supply. Also most single stage converters do not have EMI & RFI filtering. Multistage converters are specifically designed to charge batteries. The converters detect the charge level of the battery and select the most appropriate voltage for charging the battery. If you have no battery connected the converter would have no voltage to detect. Depending on the converter configuration it will select a default voltage such as 13.8VDC. It is important to understand that there is little voltage regulation so you can get sags from excessive loads or spikes from load shedding. The batteries act as a large capacitor to absorb these events.
__________________
Michael
Old setup:
2004 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 LT with a 2004 Jayco JayFlight 29BHS
2014 Greyhawk 31FS with a 2007 Tahoe toad
New setup:
2014 Thor Palazzo 33.3 with a 2007 Tahoe toad
msturtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 06:10 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Threebutchers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 6,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by msturtz View Post
It won't "damage" the converter to run the coach without a battery however most RV manufacturers install more 12 V loads than the converter can supply.
If it's a 30A DC converter with a 30A fuse - it doesn't matter if you have the battery (or a nuclear reactor) backing up your converter...when you hit the amp draw capacity of the main or branch circuit fuse(s) - you're done.

If it's not safe to draw 30A through the converter without a battery, the manufacturer wouldn't indicate otherwise. Again - each person should refer to their owners guide for their specific converter.
Threebutchers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2013, 04:09 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Renton
Posts: 516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threebutchers View Post
If it's a 30A DC converter with a 30A fuse - it doesn't matter if you have the battery (or a nuclear reactor) backing up your converter...when you hit the amp draw capacity of the main or branch circuit fuse(s) - you're done.

If it's not safe to draw 30A through the converter without a battery, the manufacturer wouldn't indicate otherwise. Again - each person should refer to their owners guide for their specific converter.
A fuse protects the converter from overloads that's it. There is much more involved in automotive (or other DC loads) or RV 12 V power systems. DC converters systems do not filter out or handle EMI / RFI very well. Nor is it a good idea to have voltage sags or spikes because it is hard on everything being powered and on the output of the converter. Converters provide very limited EMI / RFI and capacitance protection if any. Add to that unloaded (no battery) voltage regulation can be a serious issue with them as well. Automotive alternators are the same. You can run the car for a short time without a battery however eventually you will burn something out. A battery adds capacitance to the system smoothing out the irregularities in voltage and draw. You can also get unwanted noise in radios, TVs and other items in the coach. The battery will absorb any voltage spikes and it will provide voltage in a voltage drop situation. A converter manufacturer is interested in having the unit last long enough to get past the warranty period. Most of the problems but not all these problems surface after a few years of use. There are a few - very few - scientific and industrial regulated DC power supplies that have internal capacitors that can safely be used to directly power DC loads. I know because I use them here at work in my profession. They are very specialized and very expensive. We use them to test DC loads for heavy trucks including radios, computers, displays etc. I would never even consider a consumer grade RV converter as a suitable DC power supply without a battery. Incidentally, I hand built a DC power supply when I was just 17 years old which was many years ago.
__________________

__________________
Michael
Old setup:
2004 Chevrolet Silverado 3500 LT with a 2004 Jayco JayFlight 29BHS
2014 Greyhawk 31FS with a 2007 Tahoe toad
New setup:
2014 Thor Palazzo 33.3 with a 2007 Tahoe toad
msturtz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia State Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.