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Old 10-13-2014, 07:13 PM   #21
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We have been down this road many times over the years. Yes, they could (and should) make them better. If Jayco spent $12 in every area that needed improvement, the prices of their products would be higher than their competitors and buyers will go for the best price every time. Jayco would go out of business and you would get poor quality from another company. It's an industry problem. I think it's a much bigger issue than TT manufacturing, but this forum probably isn't the place to decide that.

Edit: In years to come, we will be even less satisfied when we have to order TT kits from foreign countries. (I really hope it doesn't come to that.)

2nd Edit: Better yet, if that happens, I'll camp in a tent or rough-it at a cheap motel.
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Old 10-13-2014, 07:45 PM   #22
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How many Expy's does Ford sell a year? $20 per car, estimate 100,000 Expeditions is TWO MILLION DOLLARS...

Easy to understand why they cut corners...
Exactly my point. Nickels and dimes. Two million is a lot to me. It's a rounding error to Ford, GM.

And if five percent of those buyers decide they'll go with Land Cruiser, Armada, etc., Ford loses nearly a quarter of a billion in sales at dealer level! Detroit did just fine, even with union demands, until they failed to match the quality of the foreign competition. They lost something like 30 percent of the market in roughly a decade.

And that's what happens when forward thinking ends at the next quarterly report.
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Old 10-14-2014, 05:40 AM   #23
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Disclaimer: We love our fifth wheel.

First trip out:

1. Upper cabinet door fell off (hinge screw stripped).
2. Black water valve leaked (found out the old fashioned way).
3. Two seperate sections of baseboard popped off.
4. Cable for recliner rocker (to release the latch to let it recline) broke.
5. Left rear power jack would not come down (Atwood auto system).
6. Wall paper bubbled in two different areas.
7. Lock on outdoor kitchen door would not unlock. Correct key but lock fell apart.
8. Rear window (the big one) would not tighten up all the way. Spent the return trip duct taped to keep from flopping around.

I said in a previous thread that for $60k I would expect better.

I also dont believe that this is specific to Jayco. Good friends have an Open Range and they have similar concerns. I am sure that in every brand forum there are similar stories being told.
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Old 10-14-2014, 05:42 AM   #24
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I should also add that our dealer has corrected all of these issues appropriately. No muss no fuss.
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Old 10-14-2014, 06:57 AM   #25
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... to quote Cariboocreek: "I also dont believe that this is specific to Jayco. Good friends have an Open Range and they have similar concerns. I am sure that in every brand forum there are similar stories being told."

That's the point I was trying to make in my previous post. The issue too big for this forum is the EGO and GREED that drives illegitimate business. The good players are caught up in the crappy economics that cause us to purchase inferior products at inflated prices.

I think Jayco does a terrific job in an economic environment that is not consumer friendly.

The mission statements of the large corporations are marketing fabrications the read well. What they are really saying is - "I" want more.
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:42 AM   #26
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If you study the history of manufacturing carefully you will find that outsourcing was the key to improving quality in american manufacturing. Lots of opinions out there but that is the actual bottom line.

Vertical integration has the effect of freezing technology based upon internal tooling cost burdens that can't be absorbed into the next generation of product. In effect you are chained up to the way you are tooled up.

Not sure about the RV industry as to how vertical they are. But in the auto industry the tier system and global outsourcing has changed the nature of keeping up with fast moving demands of consumers. An example is owning a huge engine block casting foundry that makes 3 to 5 years of inventory......so how do you change the engine platform or make the required changes to meet the new standards? you can't.

I have been in new business development for 40 years and about to retire.
If anyone in the RV industry was to ask me what one single thing is most important in making a quality product I would answer this way: it's in your paperwork. If your top management requires a "living" quality system be written and followed things will improve on a constant basis. The quality system has to cover every nut and bolt from purchasing to going out the door. You buy good parts and assemble them to a standard work instruction and you get quality.
And stop all inspection. Looking at something "after the fact" is an old failed idea.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:27 AM   #27
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I have purchased 3 new Jayco trailers since 1993. I'm not going to list all the little issues I fixed myself. What I will say is that over all construction is solid. Finish work leaves much to be desired and both the management and workers should be ashamed. That said, the sad state of affairs is that Jayco remains one of the better RV manufacturers in the market. As already mentioned, it has everything to do with cost control.

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I know the repair of misassembled and damaged brakes on my unit cost them over $900.00 under warranty because I had it done on the road.
Interesting. Both my '03 and my '13 Jayco's had issues with brake parts loosening up and coming apart inside the drum. I fixed both myself because it was cheap and easy, and I didn't have to leave it at a dealer for 2 weeks. Fortunately there was no major damage in either incident. But I wonder, how much of that is Jayco, and how much is Dexter Axle? Keeping in mind that the axle assemblies are delivered to Jayco ready to install.

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And stop all inspection. Looking at something "after the fact" is an old failed idea.
I disagree with your assessment. Its not the "after the fact" inspection that is the problem. It's what they have failed to do with it that's the issue. If the results of such inspections had been used to go back and look at the steps in the process that caused the issue in the first place, and more over, fix them, then quality improves. That doesn't preclude what you already said about having a "living" quality system. Both are important.
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Old 10-14-2014, 09:35 AM   #28
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I disagree with your assessment. Its not the "after the fact" inspection that is the problem. It's what they have failed to do with it that's the issue.
Inspection is not a driver of quality. Whatever drives quality comes before inspection. And when it works as it should inspection of processes and controls is all that is needed. Deming 101
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:06 AM   #29
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I've had what I feel are more than my share of issues with my Jayco. It's been back to the dealer several times, the trailer was sent to the factory once for repairs to the LR slide and like others that have posted, I've done many, many repairs myself. (The factory repair as far as I'm concerned was mediocre just like the original build).
But we just keep buying poor quality, fix it ourself and assume its all part of the rv'ing adventure?????
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Old 10-14-2014, 10:31 AM   #30
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Inspection is not a driver of quality. Whatever drives quality comes before inspection. And when it works as it should inspection of processes and controls is all that is needed. Deming 101
I don't disagree. But we both have different experiences and see this differently. I've done project management for a good many years. Production runs are really just projects when all is said and done. Good project management says you also do the back end as well (post-mortem analysis), and feed that back into the process. Doing only the inspection of processes and controls is like locking the front door of your house but leaving the back door wide open and never checking to see if someone walked in. You're assuming that all is good. It's checks and balances. You miss a lot about the quality of your processes if you don't inspect on the back end, worse you just keep making the same mistakes over and over again.
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