Progress with Wife Today

[RodgerS]

Finally got my wife out trailer shopping. Found a 35 ft Blackstone she liked, the 280RKSB. Now I have to figure out how to match it to a Jayco for our next shopping trip. Priced at 63/48 which I think should be closer to 63/40K or 40%, considering the time of year...but there were more people shopping than I expected out here in sunny California...so maybe we are a bit past optimum discount time.

I would prefer a 5th and a better quality shower. The wife put 2 and 2 together without any prompting from me and told me she liked the trailers better than the mh in concept and was very articulate about the benefits of a truck and trailer. If I didn't know better I would think she was an experienced camper. She also said she read an article about a couple who sold their house and now the wife regrets it, so looks like she has been doing some quiet homework.

The BlackStone product line targets RV buyers that are downsizing from a motorhome or larger fifth wheel but still looking for those luxury type features that go along with this RV lifestyle. But at 9,000 pounds it is not a full-time quality unit and like the shower, there has to be some shortcuts, so I'm a bit skeptical of the claims that it fully competes with luxury 5th wheels.

Will have to dig deeper before we look some more. Wife is also open to a 3 year old used model.

[Fairenatic]

Your wife sounds like a keeper.
I am sure the two of you will sort it out to mutual satisfaction.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[goducks]

Why isn't it a full time unit cause it only weighs 9000lbs? For goodness sakes it a TT not a 5th wheel. 100% chance you'll never find a TT that weighs as much as a 5th wheel in the same size. Out of curiosity what's a full time TT suppose to weigh?

[RodgerS]

The number I used was something referred to several times off several forums. No one person attempted to justify that number, but I have found it to be a useful starting point among various starting points to work upwards on.

Word of mouth regarding RVs is basically a moving target, often not absolute, often just as misleading as useful, but not something one should ignore without serious thought given to it.

Word of mouth is certainly not to be ignored as we are surrounded with this overwhelmingly hard push towards new units and lots of fluff reviews. Even across forums, many members often push newbies into focusing on floor plan and walking shows...very bad advice from my point of view.

My basic mode of thought is I start with a mfg like DRV, take note of things like the suspension, insulation, framing, brakes, tires, weight, etc. and then compare it, as I did a few days ago, with the Blackstone by Outdoors RV. I also search the owner's forums to read their complaints, and other things.

Frankly, if I'm gonna buy used as is my plan, I'm gonna buy a premium 5th, tt, or mh and push that as high as I can go. These units take a tremendous beating and the weight of what is put in and the suspension and the roof are big deals.

All of this is a judgment, but I have found 9,000 lbs seems a bit light as a starting point and even something to work much higher above towards. Having received my RV inspector's and certified technician training and experience after I retired, you could say I tend to want to hedge my RV bet heavily (pun intended).

And I have no need to be right, just be heavy if nothing else, unless of course I don't plan to move it much. Add heavy duty to that.

[clubhouse]

Interesting to use weight as an indication of quality. I clearly follow your logic, and I can't say I disagree, but it's so contrary to what you frequently read. That is many, if not most, are looking for large high quality towables that are still compatible with 1500/150. You must have, or prepared to purchase, an extremely stout tow vehicle. You start getting north of 10k UVW and you are starting to push yourself beyond 3500/350 DRW tow vehicles. In my estimation once you are looking at MDTs or 4500/5500 trucks you begin to lose the utility of that vehicle for basic transportation while the TT/5er is setup in camp.

Just my thoughts.

[goducks]

Why are you looking at DRVs and then looking at TTs? They're not even in the same class.
You still didn't answer my question as to what a full time TT should weigh.
I would also add that if you're looking at DRV as your standard then you're in for a big let down unless you look at other high end 5th wheels. TTs aren't even close to full time type 5th wheels. Any time you go from independent suspension, disk brakes, drop tube frames to a TT you've just gone from a 3500 DRW to a Tacoma in terms of function.

[clubhouse]

Originally Posted by goducks

Why are you looking at DRVs and then looking at TTs? They're not even in the same class.
You still didn't answer my question as to what a full time TT should weigh.
I would also add that if you're looking at DRV as your standard then you're in for a big let down unless you look at other high end 5th wheels. TTs aren't even close to full time type 5th wheels. Any time you go from independent suspension, disk brakes, drop tube frames to a TT you've just gone from a 3500 DRW to a Tacoma in terms of function.

In a previous discussion, the thread about "entry step recall failure" RodgerS mentioned the weight....

"Full time units are usually heavy, starting somewhere around 16,000 lbs as I understand it. Invariably the mfgs cut corners to control their price points on the entry level units."

Between this thread, and the statement from the previous thread, is why I made my comment on exceeding a 3500/350 TV. At 16k UVW in a 5r would likely have a tongue weight of >4000lbs right, maybe a bit less if it was a TT but I am not sure I have ever seen a TT with a 16k UVW -- then again Inhave never looked for one.

[RodgerS]

"Why are you looking at DRVs and then looking at TTs?"
Keeping an open mind. Like clubhouse said, one has to evaluate the tradeoffs.
Generally speaking, I'm drawn to the 5th.

Wife is just getting involved and she has her thoughts as well. For example, a marine bathroom is out, a fireplace is in, about 34 to 36 feet will work, a kitchen island is not a draw, and I found out that even though she seemed to want a jeep, she also likes trucks. Imagine that...and she is from China. She is even planning for the dog...a boxer.

"You still didn't answer my question as to what a full time TT should weigh."
And I don't plan to. Sometimes you have to do your own research.

"if you're looking at DRV as your standard then you're in for a big let down unless you look at other high end 5th wheels. "
That might be true for you, but not true for me. All goes to fitness for purpose. And yes I'm looking at a lot of 5th wheels. Got to get my wife into a Seneca and get her thoughts.

"Between this thread, and the statement from the previous thread," Yep, lots of things to consider and all the various weight issues/considerations are important. Fortunately, my wife is about 110 lbs and a bit taller than me, so that will help on the truck GVWR.

I would not be surprised to find myself somewhere between a 350 dually and a freightliner sport at the end of the day. I really like the disc brakes and suspension on the DRV.

I estimate more or less that about 120K will get me into a used truck and used DRV, so that gives me a pretty good top end benchmark within my budget. That will also buy a good used Newmar mh plus a towable. Dropping my budget to 80K then gives me a nice comfortable low benchmark with a range to work within. Still have to take the wife to see a Jayco Pinnacle.

[clubhouse]

@RodgerS -- you probably are aware with your training and research, but allow me to point out that once you exceed 10k GVW in a towable, our lovely state requires you to have a non-commercial Class A DL. Secondly, before you plunk down your cash, I would be extremely confident whatever you end up with your wife is comfortable driving just in case.

My wife's ability to drive our combination was not something we gave much thought too. That is until we were camping and a neighboring camper broke his leg, couldn't drive, and it was up to his wife to get them home. She was extremely nervous, so much so we drove them out of the CG and to the highway so she didn't have to negotiate the tight roads her first time towing. Before our next trip, DW and I went to an open lot and let her get some practice, then she drove both ways on the following trip (including spotting the trailer) just so she could prove to both of us she can handle it should an incident require it.

Again, just my thoughts.

[Fairenatic]

An RV should be an enjoyable experience. If you have the energy and the will to haul a heavy trailer, then more power to you.

I have hauled more fifth wheels for more miles and heavier loads than probably anyone on this forum. I do not any more. I want to enjoy myself and the heavier a trailer becomes, the less enjoyable the travel time becomes. Add in bad weather and changing elevations, and you just magnify the stress levels exponentially.


The stress of always being concerned about stopping distances and the things other drivers do in front of you, just suck the energy right out of me.

It may be okay for those who are the occasional RV'r, but the more miles you put on them, the quicker ones hair turns grey IMO.

Now your mileage may vary, but living in Houston, where traffic makes most other cities look like a stroll in the park, heavy is not a good thing.

If it exceeds the payload capacity of my truck alone, I do not want to haul it any more.

I see\have seen a lot of Class A and 5th wheel owner snobbyness over the years. Some just can not help it.

[RodgerS]

Note: mentally the wife is in the keep the house and travel for 2 months thought process. We also plan to rent to give her some on the road experience in a mh first. Like me she wants to travel slowly and explore in place. I am also aware that the ease of unhooking a 5th, the improved roadability of the fifth, and the automatic leveling makes the set up and take down much easier these days.

We also plan to spend some time in France in September this year so we are taking our intl travel plans into consideration as well.

[RodgerS]

"once you exceed 10k GVW in a towable, our lovely state requires you to have a non-commercial Class A DL."

Thats ok with me and I have costed out some of the driving schools.

"would be extremely confident whatever you end up with your wife is comfortable driving just in case." Yes, agreed, for many reasons.

"I see\have seen a lot of Class A and 5th wheel owner snobbyness over the years."
No question that for some owners, status and first impressions are important. Not sure it matters though, since basically if what one does, doesn't prevent another for doing what they want, its irrelevant.

Regardless, quality costs, and tends to weigh up, and unfortunately owners suffer at all levels of quality. Having spent 3+ months hands on at an RV rental company, I'm not willing to drive/own what we referred to as "cxxx," which basically comes with the entry level classification.

"If it exceeds the payload capacity of my truck alone, I do not want to haul it any more."
Yes, which is why it is often recommended to chose your 5th or tt, and then your truck, and to buy heavier duty than you need for a safety margin. I'm not about to suggest I personally won't exceed my capabilities, which is why I have really looked hard at the B and B+ class as there are a number of experienced RV owners that have downsized for very good reasons, which is another reason for keeping the house for "that day."

Let's not forget, one can hire a hauler, one can rent a car, etc.

[goducks]

Wow, way to much over thinking for me. But I've had two TTs and now a 5th wheel so I'm fairly versed in the nuisance of each. I'm just not sure why the jumping all over between RV types. If you're going full time then just get the best you can afford and quite reading about what others are doing. Your head will be spinning forever trying to decide whether what others like is what you'd like. If you're going to stay in one spot for any length of time, meaning a month or more then buy all means go 5th wheel. Much more bang for the buck with a 5th than a MH. More room inside and way, way more floorplan options. Forget about TTs. You'll never find a TT that you'd have the same storage and convenience that a 5er will have. Let alone the build quality. Get the biggest baddest truck as well. Full time living is serious stuff where too much compromising can bring on disappointment sooner.

[RodgerS]

goducks,
I never said I was going full time. For you it is overthinking or spinning - for me it is doing my due diligence and research.

I will, however, agree if you classify me as an odd duck...actually would be a compliment.

I have yet to meet someone who went through the technical service and inspector training, and worked full time, albeit for only 3.5 months - just enough to get what I determined was sufficient hands on, before buying my next RV. What I was younger I had a truck with a camper. And currently I regularly do extended warranty inspections of mhs.

And, I want my wife very involved with the process and no I have not determined what the balance between rv and international travel will be. In fact, I can travel a lot on 80 to 120K without an RV.

I agree with "If you're going to stay in one spot for any length of time, meaning a month or more then buy all means go 5th wheel. Much more bang for the buck with a 5th than a MH. More room inside and way, way more floorplan options. Forget about TTs. You'll never find a TT that you'd have the same storage and convenience that a 5er will have. Let alone the build quality. Get the biggest baddest truck as well. Full time living is serious stuff where too much compromising can bring on disappointment sooner."

No hurry for me as I have plenty of options in Northern Cal that can be done in a day with my top down in my Mercedes and I'm retired and have lots of cash and I'm very relaxed about it all.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by clubhouse

snip... Secondly, before you plunk down your cash, I would be extremely confident whatever you end up with your wife is comfortable driving just in case.

My wife's ability to drive our combination was not something we gave much thought too. That is until we were camping and a neighboring camper broke his leg, couldn't drive, and it was up to his wife to get them home. She was extremely nervous, so much so we drove them out of the CG and to the highway so she didn't have to negotiate the tight roads her first time towing. Before our next trip, DW and I went to an open lot and let her get some practice, then she drove both ways on the following trip (including spotting the trailer) just so she could prove to both of us she can handle it should an incident require it.

Again, just my thoughts.

We lived this one first hand, so I couldn't agree more with Clubhouse on this one. DW and I were camping last year, and I hurt my back on the last day of the trip right after I finished flushing the waste tanks (full hookup site). I literally couldn't move without causing enough pain that I almost blacked out a few times. I made it over to the picnic table and collected my self enough to call her from my cell phone to come out and help me (she was inside bebopping to the radio stowing the inside stuff and taking care of the boy).

So she had her trial by fire that day, and she came out great. I was still able to speak, so I had to walk her through some of the tasks. And it took me an hour to straighten out all my cords and hoses after (well maybe not quite that long), but she did fine overall. She had an easier time largely because I had recently upgraded my truck which made the WHOLE process A LOT easier on her. Our previous rig was maxed out and took a lot of effort to handle out on the road; new rig has plenty of capacity, so it's a LOT easier to handle.

Afterwards she says to me "that wasn't so hard, I don't know what the big deal is." After I got done rolling my eyes, I had to remind her that it could have easily gone differently, and that she was lucky this time. We are lucky to have the bigger truck now because it's easy to tow with, but more importantly, the excess capacity helps to create a better safety margin when things don't go right.

[RodgerS]

"the excess capacity helps to create a better safety margin when things don't go right."

I would add that extra quality often means less headaches. After my brief stint as an RV rental service technician and now doing RV inspections...when I walk into an RV, I tend to see it differently than most prospective buyers, which is why a used unit doesn't phase me...I see potential problems and potentially what it could be and what it will never be.

At the RV dealership we visited, before I even got into one new RV I saw some water damage near the door. As a couple left, they overheard me mention it to my wife, and they returned and asked me what I was looking at. They said, oh, you are right, we didn't see that.

For the moment, my wife, like them, just sees the dream...no problem I have my own job. I have three thick binders of photos (and explanations) of RV inspection issues discovered that is used to train inspectors. Just a fantastic resource. Once you have slowly gone through that, your eyes really see things differently.

[RodgerS]

By the way, got a call on that Blackstone I started this thread on. Dealer said he is willing to sell it to me for 40K. No, not gonna buy it, but he hit the 40% mark. So, guess it still really is pre-season after all.

[Edd505]

RodgerS: once again my opinion. TT's will have way less storage and if you plan on spending any time out it will become important as the list of I need things will grow, thus storage needs. The 5W will have way more storage and there are many quality used units. As OP stated there's no comparison in suspension, etc. TT vs 5W. I found my "used" 5W for 20K under new list less than a year old, used 3 times and still smelled new. You are close to AZ take along weekend and take a look at all the used units across the line, that's where I'll get my next one. Size the TV to the 5W you like (won't get that going again) Glad you considered a truck as a driver.

[RodgerS]

"Glad you considered a truck as a driver."

Actually, some would say I overthink things and need to get off the dime, but the best ideas have bubbled up the last few months and it took a bit for me to break from my focus on a dpmh or Seneca. But I think the wife and you both made some good points, and many others herein helped as well.

There are enough $$ in the budget to buy a new truck and a gently used DRV (or a new Pinnacle) if I decide to go that route. I may not full time, but I spent too much time with the entry level cxxx at the RV rental, to buy similar memories or things that remind me of what I worked on.