Reduce Tongue Weight?

[slimnrose]

We have a 2008 14.5 ft single axle Jayfeather Sport (we like the size and layout) and are concerned the tongue weight is too great for our 1999 8 cyl Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. We installed a load leveler/swaybar but the tongue still depresses the rear bumper approx 2 inches. We're getting approx 10mpg on a mix of western mountain roads and interstate highways - trails well. We want to reduce strain on the engine and are considering air shocks for the Jeep or trading in for a dual axle trailer. Any suggestions?

[RedHorse1]

I would suggest a visit to the CAT Scales. That will tell you what your weights are and how the total rig is balanced. Comparing the weights against the weight limits found on the sticker on the driver's door jamb will tell you if you are under/over weight. 10mpg sounds like an acceptable ballpark number to me.
The CAT Scale is your friend.

[bedrck46]

Read the attached link on How to Weigh Your TV/TT


http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...html#post24549

[oldmanAZ]

As RedHorse1 said, weigh your rig so you KNOW what you are dealing with.

Also, if you have a WDH (weight distribution hitch... not sure if this is your ' load leveler/swaybar'), it does need to be installed and adjusted properly. If your weights are OK, then it may be your WDH needs to re-adjusted.

[slimnrose]

Thanks much. We're new to the forum - impressed by the responses. Headed to the CAT scale.

[DocBrown]

Rear squat is normal even with a WD hitch. What you need to be concerned about is the weight on the front wheels, which in part, is what a WD hitch corrects. When you put the trailer on, the front end lifts taking weight off the front wheels, thereby reducing steering control. If you drive it that way you'll know right away it's different.

A properly adjusted WD hitch will push down the front end and restore steering control, but won't necessarily completely remove rear squat. My Sierra squats about 1.5" after the hitch is attached with the trailer. In fact every setup I've had the rear of the tow vehicle has squatted a bit.

Keep in mind that you are towing a box down the road. 10 mpg is average for towing a box down the road with a gas engine. I average 10 with my rig. Depending on tow vehicle and trailer people report anywhere from 8-12 mpg. To illustrate what is happening, hold up a 3x3 piece of plywood in front of you and run straight ahead. It's going to be a lot harder than without the wood. That's what your Jeep is dealing with only a lot larger frontal area than that.

That said when towing into the wind or up hills your Jeep's engine will often run at higher RPMs, but you probably aren't used to that. That will not hurt it. Keep in eye on the engine and transmission temps.

Niether air shocks nor dual axle will make any difference in the strain on your vehicle. In fact a dual axle trailer will be larger and heaver than what you have and will probably really strain it.

[jamaddox]

Here is an interesting thought. My truck appears to not squat when hooked up. It is level. The lack of squat could be an optical illusion because without the trailer my truck has a higher rear end

[jamaddox]

I agree with the dual axel comment because if you get a dual axle then more weight will be over the axles but the trailer will likely be heavier to begin with. And we also average about 10mph towing as well

[Skaling]

Could always install Firestone air bags to help bring the rear of the TV back up if the ' appearance' bothers you.. But going to the scale and fooling around with your WDH setup is the best option..
For my trucks front axle there is a 10lbs difference between towing and not towing my trailer. I went to a scale and adjusted my WDH to return my stock axle weight in the front as close as possible..

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by jamaddox

Here is an interesting thought. My truck appears to not squat when hooked up. It is level. The lack of squat could be an optical illusion because without the trailer my truck has a higher rear end

Looks can be deceiving. That's why WD hitch setup instructions say to measure, front and rear, before and after hitching.

I recently raised the ball on my TV hitch and need to remeasure to see if my weight distribution bars are still set correctly. My TV and TT look OK and tow OK, but I'm not sure if I need to change the weight on the front axle.

[Hohenwald48]

A lot of vehicles, including recent vintage F-150 and F-250 trucks, have a very soft first leaf spring. They do that so the truck has a better ride when unloaded, which most are most of the time.

When you apply a load to the bed or hitch that first spring will compress to the second and subsequent spring layers. The squat is a function of that first spring being compressed. Most of the load capacity is in the second and subsequent springs.

Air bags will resolve the squat but I've been told it's hard to remove it with tension on the hitch spring bars.

I think the easiest way to tell if your vehicle is "squatting" is to check where the headlights shine at night. Headlights in the treetops = squat.

[jamaddox]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

Looks can be deceiving. That's why WD hitch setup instructions say to measure, front and rear, before and after hitching.



I recently raised the ball on my TV hitch and need to remeasure to see if my weight distribution bars are still set correctly. My TV and TT look OK and tow OK, but I'm not sure if I need to change the weight on the front axle.

And that should have been what the dealer did when he installed the WDH. The truck pulls my setup perfectly. I was just making an observation that things sometimes look odd.

[need-a-vacation]

Originally Posted by jamaddox

And that should have been what the dealer did when he installed the WDH. The truck pulls my setup perfectly. I was just making an observation that things sometimes look odd.

Keep in mind that while your dealer may have set up the wdh pretty darn close for your tt, all dealers have no knowledge exactly how the customer will load the tt, so adjusting the wdh for a loaded trailer is like playing the lottery. Some hit the jackpot, some can't even break even adjusting for an empty trailer!!! Lol

Slim,

Welcome!!!

Here is a link to setting up a wd hitch.

As mentioned, hitting the CAT scales is the best, but you can get close by measuring the front end height. Read your owners manual of the GC to see what is recommended for a wdh adjustment. Some vehicles need 100% of the weight lost from the front axle to be restored, some only 25% or 50% (newer vehicles). I would guess your GC needs 100% of the weight restored. This means that the front axle weight of the GC without a trailer hooked up is the same as after you're hooked up once the wdh is adjusted and installed. When you hook the tt up, but before you latch up the wd bars the front axle will have lost weight due to the tt tw (tongue weight) being placed on the ball. Once the wd bars are latched up some or all of the "lost weight" will be restored to the front axle. This depends on how the hitch head is adjusted.

As for the mpg, welcome to the RV Club!!!! Lol With our setup (listed below) we get ~7-9mpg towing here in Mi. Even towing our 12' clamshell snowmobile trailer we only get about 10mpg. And our 2 sleds and trailer weigh maybe 2300lbs....

Good luck!!!

[jamaddox]

I guess I got lucky but I will have to keep what you said in mind. My 23mbh does not have a front pass through and only has two small storage locations up front. However the trailer we were thinking of upgrading to has a huge pass through and we would probably load that up more. I will keep those things in mind when we upgrade

[TWP723]

Still waiting on the day someone finds out how to arrange axles on TT's like a wagon. Hitch weights would be considerably lower!


Just thinkin' out loud here ya'll!

[FishAr]

Originally Posted by TWP723

Still waiting on the day someone finds out how to arrange axles on TT's like a wagon. Hitch weights would be considerably lower!


Just thinkin' out loud here ya'll!

Here you go:

The Automated Safety Hitch | Trailer Hitch | Gooseneck Horse Trailers | 5th Wheel RVs | Flatbed Goosenecks | Fifth Wheel

[RedHorse1]

Originally Posted by TWP723

Still waiting on the day someone finds out how to arrange axles on TT's like a wagon. Hitch weights would be considerably lower!


Just thinkin' out loud here ya'll!

Start with one of these and build your own:

This is the only reason I can see for the "Max Trailer Weight" number. "I'm towing 30k# and have a tongue weight of 75#"

[Hohenwald48]

Get a pick-up truck, mount a truck camper, install a tow bar on the front then hook it up to whatever. Instant camper with no tongue weight.

[TWP723]

I think it would be cool to try! Would have to figure a leveling system out. Maybe 4 wheel hydraulic levelers with the ability to level up to 8 inches side-to-side. Then drop your normal stabilizers to steady the unit. Tongue/Pin weights would pretty much be null. But, this would most likely cause over zealous campers to tow more than they can handle!


"Yeah, I'm sportin' a 96 Ranger 3.0L and towing a 40' park model!"

[norty1]

Just don't try and run that trailer at 60mph! oh boy!