Sway! With A Dual cam!!

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by David472

As the photo shows, there is a hugh difference in mechanical strength between the two.

It also shows up in the weights. The GM hitch weighs 33 lbs and the Curt weighs 54 lbs.

[jeeperx2]

here are a few pics of my hitch

My thought process tells me that everywhere there is rust with the paint missing , the hitch is flexing and or is a flex point? any thoughts?




I will probably head out tomorrow afternoon for weights and measures.

[Rustic Eagle]

Brian,

Reviewed your photos, and also taking into consideration member "David472" comments about his GM '07' 1500, plus a little searching, this is the conclusion I came to:

In 2007 all the 1500 models still had the 2" pin box, and the 2500/3500 models went to the 2 1/2" pin box. Also in 2007 it appears that GM removed the little metal plate in lieu of the larger 2 1/2" pin box. The 2 1/2" pin box also gave GM the ability to label it a Class V receiver, raising it's weight rating a little. But, the design and construction of the '07' OEM receiver is the same as the prior problem model year units. It should be noted that there are after-market Class V receivers with the standard 2" pin box (I have one.., Putnam).

Brian, the receiver you have "is not" the upgraded new style receiver that I was thinking of. I don't recall the model year, (2009 or 2010) but GM did redesign their 2 1/2" pin box OEM receiver, and I believe it went from a round cross tube to a square cross tube (plus, I don't think it can be removed without some cutting).

So yes, you have the design style that can be a problem, check it out closely. Referring to the prior posted GM OEM 2500HD receiver photo, check the welds that are hi-lited in yellow, these welds are noted problem areas.

Bob

[jeeperx2]

It appears??? in Mine & David472's pictures that the crosstubes are larger than crabman's and the pic posted with yellow hi-lights?? Regardless My hitch will be watched , measured & inspected closely!! not just now but before every trip!

Thanks for the continued interest in this!! Planning to hit the Cat scale tomorrow afternoon/evening-with pictures.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

It appears??? in Mine & David472's pictures that the crosstubes are larger than crabman's and the pic posted with yellow hi-lights??.....snip

Brian,

Very possible. If you want some interesting reading, just google "gm hitch failure" .

[jeeperx2]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Brian,

Very possible. If you want some interesting reading, just google "gm hitch failure" .

Didn't realize!! 11 pages on 1 thread @ rv.net!!

[jeeperx2]

Ok went to the local "CAT" scale this evening-here are some pictures of the results

Truck by itself


WD UNhitched


WD Hitched

[jeeperx2]

Here are some random shots of everything hitched and ready









I Think without running the numbers above in my earlier post - I see the problem - Trailer is up at the hitch!

[jeeperx2]

Tongue weight of loaded TT 1080# = 11.61%

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

Tongue weight of loaded TT 1080# = 11.61%

Brian,

Great work on your CAT scale visit!

After your photo(s) post you stated: "I see the problem - Trailer is up at the hitch!"...., the only way to confirm this is to measure the TT frame distance from the ground (at front and rear of TT). Raising or lowering the ball mount will address any changes if required (TT level is ideal, or a little nose down is ok).

Your photo of your TV/TT hitched up with the Reese HP Dual Cam looks good, I don't see anything that appears to be needing any changes unless the CAT scale weights say otherwise. Good clearance with all the hardware as well (one advantage of having the TT coupler mounted to the bottom of the TT A-frame).

Tongue weight: Your correct on the Loaded tongue weight of 1,080lbs, and also correct on the 11.61% (of 9,300lbs). With the weight and length of your TT, IMO you would be wise to get your loaded tongue weight closer to at "least 13%" (1,209lbs). If it were my TV/TT combination I would be shooting closer to 15% (1,400lbs). Don't know if you can adjust your TT cargo to make the change. I'm sure that genny on the rear of the TT is robbing the weight off the tongue.

All TV/TT combinations bounce a little from time to time, the degree and/or duration of the bouncing depends on road conditions. Your genny located way out back will also influence (possibly amplify) the bounce effect, but IMO having an adequate tongue weight (closer to 15% of TT gross weight) will help in controlling/handling the same effect.

Weight Distribution: TV alone your front axle is at 3,660lbs, with TV/TT WD engaged the TV front is at 5,520lbs......: The front axle is still missing 140lbs. I would consider adding a little more ball mount tilt toward the TT (will increase spring bar force, more weight transferred), but keep the same 6-chain links under tension because your Dual Cam clearances look good as is. CAT scale has confirmed weight transfer to the TT axles as well.

TT Loaded Weight: TT GVWR is 10,250lbs, your at 9,300lbs..... looks good.

TV Axle Weights: I don't have your TV axle limits, but yours appear to be within the limits (based my 2500HD limits). As a matter of fact, your TV axle weights with the TT hitched and WD engaged, are almost the same as mine under the same conditions!! Also your TV alone gross weight is within 20lbs of mine, the biggest difference is that your loaded TT weighs about 1,000lbs more than my loaded TT.

You will have to confirm your TV's GVWR, GCWR, etc., with your CAT weights when you get a chance.

How about your receiver pin box, any flexing when engaging the WD spring bars?

Oh, please double check my math on the above data.

Again, great effort on getting your actual weights confirmed.

Bob

[jeeperx2]

Bob -Thanks for your review its seriously appreciated!!!

I would have been on and replied to your post last night but my neighbor unexpectedly past away - very sad wife and kids and I were close .

for anyone that is curious or wondering the cost of weighing at a cat scale its $9.50 for the first weigh & $1.00 for each additional weigh. I watched a video on the cat scale web site for a how to or what to expect kinda thing plus the sticky thread directions on this site made it painless.

1. I will confirm my TT being "up at the hitch" before I move or reset anything.

2. Tongue Wieght- I dont normally travel with water unless im boondocking but might have to consider it as my fresh water tanks are just slightly ahead of my TT axles 90gal of water would definately help with tongue weight. after I measure and posibly reset hitch I will weigh a 4th time with full Fresh water tanks.

3. Weight Distribution- I will adjust hitch head to gain/ditribute that 140lbs.
Type O in your post -Tv front is at 5,520- should be 3,520

4. pin box is flexing 1/8"- winter project - new hitch! if it moves that much while just snapping up I can only imagine how bad it moves on these roads & bridges at 70mph!!

I will have to do a little more research on the other info in your post.

Again thanks everyone for taking the time to help with this! hopefully its good Info.

[Rustic Eagle]

Brian,

Sorry to hear about your close family friend, my condolences.

Here are some additional thoughts after reading your recent post:

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

snip.........,
3. Weight Distribution- I will adjust hitch head to gain/distribute that 140lbs.

When you adjust your hitch head, only move it "one notch at-a-time" (each side), you will be surprised how much a single notch movement will effect spring bar tension. Scribe a little witness mark on both sides reflecting the existing notch locations as a reference point, also make sure they match up on both sides.

I recently preformed a single notch adjustment on my 1,200lb rated Reese HP Dual Cam WDH..., do to the addition of some weight on my TT tongue (two 6V golf cart batteries, etc.).

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

snip.....Type O in your post -TV front is at 5,520- should be 3,520........snip

Thanx, your correct, it should read 3,520lbs.

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

snip.........,
4. pin box is flexing 1/8"- winter project - new hitch! if it moves that much while just snapping up I can only imagine how bad it moves on these roads & bridges at 70mph!!........snip

If it's only moving an 1/8", you should be fine. IMO a movement as much of 1/8" to 1/4" can be experienced even on the best 3rd party receivers on the heavy tongue weights. If you would have seen a movement of 1/2" or more, than I would say trash the old GM OEM receiver. I would recheck the movement again after you increase your tongue weight. Up to you if you still want to consider replacing it.

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

snip..... hopefully its good Info.

Absolutely. It's great reference data for "newbies" or even the seasoned RV'er who has yet to weight their TV/TT combination. I'm sure it will be thought provoking as well for those that don't realize how fast weight can add up, and how it can influence one's TV handling towing a 9,000lb TT down the road at 65MPH.

Bob

[Murphie]

This has been a great read. I enjoyed following each step and your assessments. Learned a lot. The photos and the weight print outs had me analyzing where all the weight went. Thanks again.

[jeeperx2]

Originally Posted by Murphie

This has been a great read. I enjoyed following each step and your assessments. Learned a lot. The photos and the weight print outs had me analyzing where all the weight went. Thanks again.

Glad to hear!

I plan to Tweak , Adjust , Measure & Re-weigh before my next trip at the end of this month. so stay tuned! LOL!

Thanks to everyone for there input !!

[Crabman]

Take the genny off the rear bumper and place in the truck bed may help as well.

[jeeperx2]

Originally Posted by Crabman

Take the genny off the rear bumper and place in the truck bed may help as well.

Actually ................Planning on upgrading? / Downsizing? the generator this winter but will garner no weght loss maybe 20lbs lighter. going to get a honda 3000w inverter generator its a little more compact than my current . considering building a mount on the tongue in some way? need to get the genny before i can plan that out. That would put 200lbs back on the tongue but... would also be removing 220lbs from the rear which would give some tongue weight back just from removing from the rear??

[jeeperx2]

pictures of weight ratings for my 2007 2500HD GMC







Looks as if I am within my limits. 3.73's-close!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

snip.....Looks as if I am within my limits. 3.73's-close!

Yep, if your running with the 3.73 gear your just under the TV's GCWR, which is an important weight limit.

Looks like your good with the TV's GVWR, and both axle weight limits as well.

When you look into adding a little more tongue weight at least now you know that you have to be a little sensitive with how much weight you add avoiding going over the GCWR. As Lee mentioned, moving the genny to the TV box doesn't impack the TV/TT GCWR, but will lower the TT gross weight and return some weight TT weight back to the tongue. Also keep in mind the loaded condition of your TV/TT when you were at the CAT scale: "Did it represent your true ready to camp loaded weight" (passengers, any missing cargo, etc.).

I'm sure you will be able to address the additional tongue weight needed without going over the TV's GCWR, then address the required weight that needs to be returned to the TV's front axle under the revised tongue weight condition via the WDH adjustment.

Once again, great work!

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by jeeperx2

snip....would also be removing 220lbs from the rear which would give some tongue weight back just from removing from the rear??

Yes, just the act of removing the genny from the rear of the TT will in effect place some weight back on the tongue (think in terms of how a teeter-totter works). Only a CAT scale (or Sherline tongue weight scale) can confirm how much weight actually got back to the tongue, the longer the TT the less amount of weight.

Just an FYI, I purchased a Sherline LM2000 scale a couple of years ago, for me it's been a great investment (saves trips to the CAT scale), and I have pulled it out at CG's to help others as well.

http://www.sherline.com/lm.htm

Bob

[jeeperx2]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

a great investment

For sure! Gonna put that on my christmas list! lol!