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Old 04-01-2022, 05:54 AM   #1
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Switching to lifepo4

I decided instead of replacing my lead acid house battery to get a lifepo4 instead. I have the 12v section on my converter ordered because my existing converter wouldn’t charge lithium batteries. I also have a 200ah lifepo4 battery on the way. I’m planning on either putting it under the bed which is in the front or in the pass through storage which is also accessible from under the bed. This is all new to me, only had the trailer out 4 times and all I had to worry about was plugging it in to 30 amp electric or plugging it to the truck to tow it. My question is besides the converter that will charge the battery while on electric what do I need to do as far as charging the battery while towing. I have read that I need a dc to dc charger but have no idea where that would go. Is it bad for my alternator in the truck to charge the lifepo4 while traveling?
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Old 04-01-2022, 09:48 AM   #2
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Will you be ever in cold weather, below freezing? Or, does your new lithium have cold temperature protection?

The answer to that will help the responses.
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Old 04-01-2022, 09:50 AM   #3
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I'm in the process of doing the same thing along with a solar system. After researching and having a conversation with very helpful and knowledgeable Dennis at Progressive Dynamics (re: converters and towing connections) I believe a couple of things. I'm not entirely positive about any of this just yet but am interested to read other comments.


1) Newer vehicles have "smart alternator" systems that control charging output based on demand. Do some research on your vehicle, it's not hard to determine.

2) Charging wire length and gauge from the vehicle alternator to the 7 pin connector, then from the connector to the converter, then to the battery is likely to be insufficient for full rate of charge from the alternator. If it's truly critical that you require somewhat fast full voltage charging, you'll likely need to upgrade this wiring. However, if left alone, it will simply charge more slowly and probably not at the 14.6 volts required for LiFePO4 but at the 13.4ish for lead acid. No harm will be done to alternator or battery.
3) Most LiFePO4 batteries have built in battery management systems to add protection to battery under or overcharging, temperature, etc.
4) You may want to invest in a LiFePO4 portable battery charger for maintenance.


A good source -
Another good source https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...CUwC20DBlyv6s_
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Old 04-01-2022, 09:52 AM   #4
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DC-DC not need, especially if your converter/charger and/or solar charger will do lithium. People recommend a DC-DC charger because most lithium batteries require a higher charge voltage to top off than most tow vehicles supply.


If you had a larger battery bank and weren't getting it charged via the converter/charger and solar, a DC-DC charger could assist. However, they usually (almost always) require running a dedicated power wire from the alternator to the DC-DC charger. That power wire needs to be sufficiently large gauge to support the amps being charged, and avoid too much voltage drop.
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Old 04-01-2022, 10:07 AM   #5
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This will provide you a good read. https://www.taoperf.com/2021/08/27/h...an-alternator/
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Old 04-01-2022, 10:31 AM   #6
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Thanks for the reply’s, I’ll watch the videos tonight. The trailer lives in s Florida and I really don’t expect to be in below freezing temps as the battery I got doesn’t have freezing protection and my aging bones don’t care much for temps that cold either. I’m planning on a 2-3 month trip in may to celebrate retirement and plan on doing some boondocking so I’m trying to get my ducks in a row
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:04 PM   #7
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I would suggest that the answer is that a DC2DC charger certainly could be of value for anyone who boondocks and RV's enough to see the benefit of a fully charged LifePo4 battery bank upon arriving at their destination. Not to go into it deeply, the videos likely will explain as well, but it would not be likely that going without a DC2DC charger would fully charge or "optimally" charge a LifePo4 battery.

One suggestion I would have in order to keep it simple, most trucks that I have seen that have the factory tow package use a 10awg 12v battery charge line to the truck's 7-Way plug (that the trailer plugs into) which is protected by a 30a fuse. With that understanding (and you should verify if this is the case on yours) then a 12V 20Amp Renogy DC2DC charger would be a simple addition because you could leverage the existing wiring. My recommendation would be to install the DC2DC charger near the batteries and take the charge line from the trailer's 7-pin connector and follow it to its endpoint (likely already near the batteries and\or the 12v fuse panel area) and then connect that wire to the DC2DC charger input, and then connect the output of the charger to the batteries (or wherever you pulled the input cable from). Using the 20Amp DC2DC charger should allow for you to not have to make any changes to the truck's wiring setup. Larger than the 20Amp model would require heavier cables and a new run likely for both the truck and the trailer. BTW, I have the 40Amp model but mine is a Class C which has a heavier 4awg charge line to start with. ~CA

https://www.renogy.com/12v-20a-dc-to...ttery-charger/
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:29 PM   #8
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Thanks, is the charger that I was looking at.
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Old 04-01-2022, 02:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobstekeur View Post
Thanks, is the charger that I was looking at.
BTW, when I looked for the link and item, the webpage showed that it was on sale today. I am not sure how long that will last or how long the sale has been in effect, but something to take note of.

I also recommend one of these. IMO, you have already made an investment for the battery so having the DC2DC charger and an accurate way of measuring the battery's charge status will complete your setup.
https://www.amazon.com/QWORK-Battery...s%2C140&sr=8-9

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Old 04-01-2022, 03:38 PM   #10
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Something else that you don't mention so I am not sure if you have it is solar? Solar would be charging at all times, driving etc... as well so it could/would supplement any DC-DC charger as well as any shore power if plugged in for charging off the converter. Just something to think about if you already have it. Not a requirement if you dont.
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Old 04-01-2022, 06:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by TomC_AZ View Post
Something else that you don't mention so I am not sure if you have it is solar? Solar would be charging at all times, driving etc... as well so it could/would supplement any DC-DC charger as well as any shore power if plugged in for charging off the converter. Just something to think about if you already have it. Not a requirement if you dont.
I do have solar but it’s not roof mounted, I have a 200 watt portable suitcase solar that I’ll put out while we’re parked.
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Old 04-01-2022, 09:19 PM   #12
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Ok I’m new to this as well and the AC-DC converter comment has me wondering. I have a Jay Feather and I assume it’s AC-DC converter is not rated for LiFePO4 (which I have on order). I do have 380W solar on the roof and an MPPT which can do LiFePO4. Is the issue with the AC-DC converter simply that it does not output enough volts to fully charge or is there something else I need to be aware of? If that is the only concern, I believe my solar will take care of this, correct?
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Old 04-02-2022, 06:15 AM   #13
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Correct, a non-lithium converter just will not charge a LiFePO4 to 100%. However that may not always be true, mine has charged to 100% a couple times, I think it just depends on how low the battery is and how long the converter stays in bulk charge mode. You are also correct on the solar, it will make up for any shortage the converter does not output as long as there is good sun.
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Old 04-02-2022, 06:57 AM   #14
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I made a long call to Renogy as I was considering solar and Lithium. They reassured me that a non-lithium converter would not hurt a lithium battery and would provide some charge. They also suggested that my solar would override the converter and provide the charging I needed to get up to 100 % while driving or even plugged it.

In short, the solar mppt charger would charge while traveling or plugged it to keep my battery at 100% sunshine permitting.


If you are considering Renogy make sure you get a referral bonus discount from a prior Renogy customer like me to get the max discounts. Some Renogy items are on sale now.
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Old 04-02-2022, 09:10 PM   #15
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I will stay with my setup then. The AC-DC converter and TV alternator can provide some charge, but my solar will be the “primary” source. I’m good with that for the type of camping we do.

RogerR, you did provide me a link for the discount which I used when I bought the Renogy LiFePO4 battery. Thank you for that. Battery should arrive Monday.
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Old 04-03-2022, 01:18 AM   #16
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I keep my two lithium batteries separate from my vehicle. I use solar to charge the lithium's only, and it works for me.
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Old 04-03-2022, 04:03 AM   #17
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Lipo4 batteries are great. Not only do they pose little if any risk of fire, but they recharge thousands of times. As long as you don't run them down to zero all the time. Give them a break. They hold their charge at 100% for months at a time if you treat them right.
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Old 04-06-2022, 03:12 PM   #18
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I think it's great to have an option like lithium batteries. However I don't understand why so many new RVrs are jumping to them without giving regular batteries a try. They are expensive. My 2019 dual 6 volt lead acid batteries work great, just got back from sand hollow utah where we boondocked for 10 days with out an issue. 80 percent of our camping is boondocking on these 4 year old batteries. I do have a 100 watt portable solar panel that I didn't use this trip. The trailer has a 5500 watt generator but I just use a portable Honda 2000 to run the microwave and it's quite enough to let run a little longer to top off batteries when needed. That honda generator was under 1000.00 when I bought it over 20 years ago. Everyone has their own ideas I guess. I just try not to spend money I don't have to. I wish to OP luck on his new expensive system
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Old 04-06-2022, 03:45 PM   #19
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comment

I was happy with my AGMs until we upgraded our Norcold 1200 to 12v dc compressor. The AGMs (200ah) did not have the capacity to keep the compressor fridge running for more than one day. So I purchased 200ah of lifepo4. I am still waiting for Progressive Dynamics to provide a 2 stage lifepo4 board upgrade for my PD4590 (I don't think they ever will even though they promised it was coming - 1 year ago). Also I must replace my battery isolator - is this a consideration in this thread?
I have not yet installed the batteries since it was too cold and Covid slowed everything down.
Can anyone answer this: The AGM's will supply backup engine starting capability if the engine battery runs down. Will the lifepo4's provide this function?
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Old 04-06-2022, 03:53 PM   #20
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The LiFePO4 cannot provide the starter function for the engine. At least not that type of LiFePO4 (to be clear). I would just get one of the small power jump starters, I have one and they work great even on large engines if you get the right one. Use it all the time to help others, they are always amazed that it works and never have to hook anything up to my truck to help them.
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