Thinking of getting first TT, need advice between 2 Jayco's

[spamcan]

Howdy all! First post, and looking to get into TT travel.

So the wife and I, along with our 3yr old son and 6mo old daughter, figure flight type vacations are years out. And tent camping with kids our ages is (for us) a thing of the past for now. So we would like to get into TT vacationing. We've rented up to 19' models with limited success (too small, too old/run down). We've hunted various makes and models and have come to the decision between 2 Jayco's: Jay Flight SLX 267BHSW and Jay Flight 28BHBE

Taking away the obvious things like size, interior colors, decor and overall floor layout, I'm wondering if there's anything really worth spending @ $7k more for the 28BHBE. To my unknowledged eyes, it seems the only convenience thing I'd like to add to the 267BHSW is the blackwater wash and large door entry handle. I'm guessing those could be added.

The other concern is the weight. We have a 2009 Toyota Tundra which on paper could tow either. I would think the 267BHSW would be easier to tow at 2000lbs less.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated, including what accessories I should get as well - reading the Arrival & Departure Checklist on the RVForum site gave me some ides.

Thanks in advance!

[Big1]

Welcome to JOF! So what is your payload on your tundra because that is the tell all of what you can tow? So look on your door on the driver side and post it, look at the total weight of the trailer and not the unloaded weight.

I really like the Jay Flight and for your family it would be a good match, but all in all the only one that can decide that is you and your wife.

[Rustic Eagle]

spamcan,

Welcome to JOF

You will find that a TV's "available" payload capacity is one of the most common weight figures overlooked when shopping for a TT, HTT, etc.. One's available payload capacity can become very important as one ventures into the heavier and longer TT's, doesn't matter if it's a 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, etc..

Many folks early on didn't realize that a TT's "loaded" tongue weight is supported by the TV and gets subtracted form the TV's payload capacity. The ideal loaded tongue weight for a TT like the 28BHBE is 13% to 15% of the TT's "loaded" gross weight (ready to camp).

To reduce the guessing and increase TT purchase confidence I would recommend confirming how much "available" payload capacity your Tundra has under your loaded conditions (full fuel, passengers, and simulated TV camping cargo weight). Simply subtract the weight from the CAT scale weigh-in from your Tundra's specified GVWR, the remaining weight is what you have available to support a 50lb WDH and a TT's "loaded" tongue weight. A CAT scale weigh-in is about $9 and takes about 15 seconds.

Also, please note that published (brochures, web site, etc.) UVW/Dry weights of a TT are not "as-shipped" weights, depending on the model in question "as-shipped" UVW's can represent another 250lbs to 600lbs. There will be a yellow weight sticker on the side of the TT that will identify the actual "as-shipped" UVW.

Start out with the CAT scale visit and add that data to the discussion, you will be glad you did.

Bob

[Woodworker]

We like our Jayflight SLX 287BHSW mainly because it has a pan about 3' x 3' square instead of those little tubs. Fully loaded if you do that GW is 7,000lbs

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[need-a-vacation]

Welcome and congrats on looking at your first TT!!!

As mentioned, with a 1500/150 (even 2500's depending on rig combo) the limiting factor is the available payload of your truck. The yellow sticker in the drivers door jamb give you an idea of what your truck has for payload as it rolled of the assembly line. It states- " All occupants and cargo not to exceed XXXXXlbs". This is the max payload for your truck the way it is optioned.

As it states, all occupants, any cargo (coolers, bikes, firewood, etc), any accessories added when/after you bought it (truck topper/tonneau cover, step bars, etc), the wdh, AND the tt tw (tongue weight) all count toward the trucks payload. Ideally as mentioned, go weigh the truck (with a full tank of gas) with all occupants and what you anticipate hauling in the bed to see what is left for the wdh and tw.

Be aware that the truck mounted receiver hitch also has a max tw rating, and the truck axles each have a max rating. The receiver hitch can be the next limiting factor after the payload.

I would probably suggest leaning towards the smaller of the two. Or maybe the Jay Flight comparable of the 267? The 28 BHBE is an awesome rig!!! We seriously looked at it before the 32 won out, but the 28 is at the upper limits of a 1500/150. The hard part is that we all pack our rigs different. And with the front pass through storage on these models, it is very easy to overpack it with heavy items, which 99.9% of that weight goes right on the tongue.

Also, the "brochure" tongue/hitch weight (tw) does not include the weight of the propane tanks or a battery. That adds ~120lbs for 2-20lb tanks and a battery, or ~160lbs for 2-30lb tanks and a battery.

Get a good wdh with integrated sway control. The Equal-I-Zer 4 way system, Reese Dual cam, and Reese SC systems are all very good models. Make sure to get the correct rated wd bars for your loaded tw, and not based on the "brochure" tw.

As for accessories, there is a fair amount that is needed, and some personal preference. Will post back with a good starter list. Amazon and (hate to post, but...) Walmart can be good places to get the needed items. Trailer dealers can be a little overpriced.

Good luck!!!

[sennister]

Since everyone else has already discussed weight I will not focus on that as much other than to say you can pretty much ignore that towing weight number that your truck has. My Yukon Denali can tow 8100# supposedly. However as others mentioned the tongue weight limits of my frame and payload limits mean realistically I am maxed out at on a trailer that weighs 7000# GVWR. That is 1100# difference when you compare what they claim I can tow and what is realistic. Sometimes you can get by with shifting things you would normally carry in the truck by moving them into the trailer as long as you don't blow past the max weight there and keep the other numbers in check like 13%-15% TW. OK that got a little longer than I thought.

On to the floor plan. The reason they have so many floor plans is everyone's needs are different. You need to evaluate how you envision how you are camping to help you rank different options higher than others. For us we have two kids 8-11 and got tired of having to convert the dinette into a bed every night so we wanted a bunk. We also dry camp mostly away from full hookups. Meaning we are on generator if we want to run AC so an outdoor kitchen was a huge plus as it keeps the heat outside of the camper in the summer. As we are concerned about weight and staying below that 7000# number for the trailer's GVWR (max loaded weight) because we will be traveling with full fresh water tank. That is why we bought the Jay Feather 25BH which has virtually the exact same floor plan as the 267BHSW. So if you find when you run your numbers that you can't tow as much as you think you can take a look at a JF 25BH as another option. You can order it without the outdoor kitchen if you don't think you need it which will save some money and that space is a really nice storage compartment. We wanted the kitchen as we mainly do the dry camping as mentioned and do shorter stays.

Looking at the two floor plans the biggest advantage to the larger 28BHBE is that second door. It may not be as big of a deal if you don't use the bathroom much because you normally use the bath house other than that late night or bad weather need to use the bathroom. If you dry camp and it is the only restroom it cuts down on the traffic and dirt in the camper. Also this floor plan has a ladder for getting into and out of that top bunk. Not as big of a deal with my 8 and 11 year old but younger kids will need a ladder of some sort. I think it has a bigger fridge.

Black flush can be added a larger grab handle can be added. I would add a roof ladder if available. If you camp in an area with trees you may want to go up on the roof to clear any debris from the top of the slide before bringing it in. It can damage the seals also it makes it easier to get up there to inspect the caulking twice a year. It is difficult to add a ladder later and the mounting blocks may not be there under the skin or they may not line up with the ladder. Also since we dry camp I would add any additional roof vent fans at the factory. A fan can run on the battery but AC needs a generator. But if you are down south where that might let in more heat then it may not be desirable as it is up here in the north. The 15K AC upgrade would be nice if you have full hookups but needs a bigger generator if you dry camp.

Really it comes down to personal preference and your camping style not to mention realistic trailer weights. We bought ours at the RV Show and I was shocked when walking around looking at campers with how many claimed to be 1/2 ton towable but there is no way.

[oldmanAZ]

Congratulations (a bit early) on the Jayco and welcome to the forum.

[spamcan]

Thank you all for the great info. The Tundra (stock/bare) professes 10,000lbs of towing. But I'll check the sticker and deduct for things like the bed cap, bed liner, etc.

[sennister]

Originally Posted by spamcan

Thank you all for the great info. The Tundra (stock/bare) professes 10,000lbs of towing. But I'll check the sticker and deduct for things like the bed cap, bed liner, etc.

Also don't forget to look at the hitch rating. Probably in the owner's manual. For instance my truck is 600 max tongue weight with a Class III hitch or 1000 max with a Class IV WD hitch.

My 25BH is 6750# GWVR so if fully loaded and 15% TW

6750x.15= 1012.5 add in 100# for the WD hitch and I am over.

If I shift some weight to the back of the trailer and run closer to 13% I am ok.

6750x.13=877.5 add in the 100 for the WD and I am at 977.5 and OK.

[need-a-vacation]

Accessories:

Fresh water hose- at least 50'.
Water pressure regulator.
90* elbow for at the trailer end.
Sewer hose kit- at least 20'. Walmart has a Camco kit for about $25.
30a extension cord. May need it to reach the electric outlet.
EMS/ surge protector system.
15a male to 30a female to plug in at the house.
50a male to 30a female. The 30a outlet may be worn out, will allow you to plug into the 50a if available.
Wheel chocks!!!
Boards or lego blocks to level trailer side to side. I use a couple 2x10' long enough for both wheels to sit on. Have a couple cut in half also. And blocks for under the tongue jack and stabilizer jacks.
Awning mat if desired.
Grill, chairs, table, etc....

Inside utinsels: pretty much all the basics of what's in the house. We do use paper plates and plasticware to cut washing down.

If possible, stay at Camp Driveway a night or two. You can run inside and grab needed items as needed. Just write everything down you find you need so you have a shopping list for the said needed items.

Having a direct bathroom entrance is very nice!!! Just make sure your truck is up to the task!!! Unfortunately the manufactures "tow rating wars" have made it very tough to actually tow the rated amount without actually exceeding the payload if a 1500/150. The tow ratings are based on a flat bed trailer with only 10% tw.

Good luck!!!

[Woodworker]

An if i may, don't use jut any TP. Test a couple pieces in a jar of water. Shake the jar up then let sit. If it doesn't break down to basically nothing within a few minutes don't use it

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[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by spamcan

Thank you all for the great info. The Tundra (stock/bare) professes 10,000lbs of towing. But I'll check the sticker and deduct for things like the bed cap, bed liner, etc.

Good idea.

As was already posted, it is the PAYLOAD on the sticker (trailer tongue weight plus everything in the truck cab and truck bed) that is usually the limit for trucks, NOT towing capacity.

[bono]

I have 3 yrs old and 11 mths old kids and over-energetic golden retriever. We purchased 28DSBH last year and it works great for the family.

In terms of the tow vehicle, most of people are very focused on the payload, which is IMO more important for moving the cargo in the car and less important when towing with weight distribution system. Some even cap the towing capacity to 70-80% of the factory specs. A lot depends on your level of comfort. Towing is not for spectators, unless you want to use one ton truck to pull small trailer. Just read, read and read a lot and then make decisions.

I think that there is somebody on this forum towing the trailer you mentioned with Tundra.

GL!

[bansai]

The 2009 Tundra has a payload capacity between 1,370 to 1,990 lbs

If yours is on the 1990 lbs side of that spectrum, you would be 'OK' with either camper as long as you load it light. That Tundra, if equipped that way, would have about the same payload as my Ford, and it tows my camper fine (could be better though).

If your Tundra is on the lower end of that payload capacity, I think you need a smaller camper than the 28BHBE as that rig weighs a bit more than the one I'm towing, and I know for a fact I wouldn't be comfortable towing anything much heavier than what I am.

For what it's worth (nothing) - My Ford can tow over 11,000 pounds, but it NEVER will because I'll blow out my rear axle before I can hitch up a trailer that heavy. Awesome advise from the other members... and welcome to the forum.

[Jagiven]

Congratulations! I cannot help with choosing between the two TTs. My standard recommendation is to go the dealer, ditch the salesperson, and sit in each unit for 30 minutes or more. Dig through each cabinet, cargo hold, under each bench and find all the hidden areas. Then spend a little time thinking/talking about where you are going to put your “stuff”.

There are lots of comment’s on your TV, If it does not have the modern yellow sticker in the door frame that has all the payload information, call Toyota directly (not the dealer) and talk with their Customer Service Dept, have your vin number handy. Ask lots of questions, OEM hitch rating, does the TV have a tranny cooler, what is the tow rating, payload rating, and how is it calculated. Usually those numbers are calculated based on an “Average” size driver of 150 pounds and a full tank of fuel, nothing else in the vehicle. Now add the weight of your DW, kids, dog, toys, hitch, tongue weight, and other items in the bed. All those items will reduce your payload and towing capacity. Oh, did I mention kids grow fast and add weight and stuff quickly! I spoke with Dodge for 30-45 minutes before buying our HTT, and I am very glad I did.

When looking at the Tongue weight, do not use the empty ship GVW, you want to calculate it based on the fully loaded GVW. Tongue weight should be 12 to 15 percent of the GVW (fully loaded). This minimizes control issues. So for example, the 28BHBE has a fully loaded GVW of 9250 pounds; 9250 * 0.15 = 1388 pounds estimated tongue weight.

A TT with a slide (or two) is great, it really opens up the interior space, and they feel much more open in poor weather, and while cooking inside).

Happy Travels

[Big1]

A lot of good info here for the op, let us know what you do.

[need-a-vacation]

As for the SLX vs Jay Flight models, things may be a little different from when we purchased our '16, so double check, but a few differences are (were?):

Flight may weigh a little more than the SLX, but it also has axles that are a little higher rated, and possibly a little higher CCC.

Nicer cabinet doors, larger fridge, electric option on hot water tank (can run both gas and electric together for faster recovery), pull out kitchen sink faucet, shower surround (possibly, can't recall for sure), possibly the more stout scissor stabilizer jacks vs the c style models, larger fresh water tank, larger gray and black tanks(???), larger propane tanks (does equal a little higher tw), electric awning and blinding led awning lights, etc. As I mentioned, double check as the differences could have changed, just some things that I can think of that may be different.

For us, having a higher CCC was something I looked for. Really comes down to what all will you pack in the tt.

Concerning the tw of the 28 BHBE, members who own this rig have posted having a loaded tw of anywhere from about 900lbs up to 1200lbs or so. Then if thing is will you be traveling with fresh water tanks (has 2-40g tanks I beleive) and how much will you pack in the front pass through storage? Almost all that weight goes on the hitch. If you travel with maybe 10-15g of water and keep the weight in the front pass through on the lighter side, the 28 may be possible. But as we have mentioned, double check your truck mounted receiver hitch for a max tw rating as well!!!

[ccso2213]

Might I suggest the 287bhsw? Identical floor plan to the 28bhbe but in the lighter, "no frills" slx model.


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[spamcan]

Even more great info. Factory towing is either 8,300 or 10,300 (Tundra Double Cab Shortbed 4WD 5.7L V-8). Being it's setup for the factory towing package, according to the owners manual that's defacto 10,300lbs, 1,990lbs capacity. There is a sticker on the door frame saying -350lbs due to the spray-in bedliner. Add the 400-500 lbs for us and the dog, then gear (car seats, etc), then bed cap at @ 100lbs. Already down to @9000lbs of leftover capacity. Yea, good points, and even if I pushed the limits with the 28...I'd be uncomfortable being my first "owned" learning how to maneuver and tow a bigger rig. Looks like the 267 (as of now) is the way to go. Though ccso2213, I was unaware of the 287, I like it! We like that floorplan much more and it's only 500lbs more than the 267 fully loaded. Time to look at them closer.

I'm still trying to find info on hitch and rear axle capacity.

As for buying used, we're open to it. Just we've heard from family whom have owned TT's for years that have had bad experiences with worn out TT's. Of course that's relative to many aspects: quality of MFG, whom owned it and how well it was kept up, and the new buyers perspective. What would be the big things to look for when buying used? Creaky floors, drawers not closing right, etc?

[oldmanAZ]

Originally Posted by spamcan

Even more great info. Factory towing is either 8,300 or 10,300 (Tundra Double Cab Shortbed 4WD 5.7L V-8). Being it's setup for the factory towing package, according to the owners manual that's defacto 10,300lbs, 1,990lbs capacity. There is a sticker on the door frame saying -350lbs due to the spray-in bedliner. Add the 400-500 lbs for us and the dog, then gear (car seats, etc), then bed cap at @ 100lbs. Already down to @9000lbs of leftover capacity. Yea, good points, and even if I pushed the limits with the 28...I'd be uncomfortable being my first "owned" learning how to maneuver and tow a bigger rig. Looks like the 267 (as of now) is the way to go. Though ccso2213, I was unaware of the 287, I like it! We like that floorplan much more and it's only 500lbs more than the 267 fully loaded. Time to look at them closer.

I'm still trying to find info on hitch and rear axle capacity.

As for buying used, we're open to it. Just we've heard from family whom have owned TT's for years that have had bad experiences with worn out TT's. Of course that's relative to many aspects: quality of MFG, whom owned it and how well it was kept up, and the new buyers perspective. What would be the big things to look for when buying used? Creaky floors, drawers not closing right, etc?

Do you have a sticker on the door frame with your Tundra's PAYLOAD? Is the '1,990lbs' you posted above the vehicle PAYLOAD from the sticker on your doorframe?

You've got the right idea doing the math. BUT, you subtract the trailer tongue weight, bedliner, people, carseat, dog, and gear in the truck bed from the PAYLOAD, not the towing capacity.