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Old 04-30-2015, 10:11 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by TommyAjax View Post
As I continue to read up on this, on some other forums people have claimed that a WDH will reduce the tongue weight load on the tow vehicle by re-distributing some of that weight back to the trailer axles (same concept that has the front axles taking some of the load from the rear axles of the truck).

So my next question is, does the WDH reduce the weight applied to the tow vehicle as payload? For example, if the tongue weight is 600 lbs, and the WDH redistributes that weight among the axles as 1/3 to each, the tow vehicle would take on 400 lbs of payload/hitch weight (200 lbs each to the front and rear), and the trailer axles take 200 lbs of the payload weight to be applied against the trailer payload capacity and not the tow vehicle.

Edit: this is supported by the example provided by CamperBob

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

So the WDH "shifted" 120 lbs back onto the TT and reduced the truck payload by that amount.

This may help explain it some. Even if it "reduced" weight, I'm not sure how you could ever accurately weigh it.

Does a Weight Distribution Hitch Allow More Tongue Weight on the Ball | etrailer.com

My understanding is it doesn't reduce it, just places more of it on the front axle too. Kind of like you lifting up on a ball in your hitch. Your rear axle won't "feel" as much, but your front axle will now bear added load.
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:30 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by UPCamper View Post
This may help explain it some. Even if it "reduced" weight, I'm not sure how you could ever accurately weigh it.

Does a Weight Distribution Hitch Allow More Tongue Weight on the Ball | etrailer.com

My understanding is it doesn't reduce it, just places more of it on the front axle too. Kind of like you lifting up on a ball in your hitch. Your rear axle won't "feel" as much, but your front axle will now bear added load.

Agreed...but what shows in the real-world example from CamperBob is that when the WDH bars are engaged, front axle and trailer axle weights increased (300 lbs to the front, 120 lbs to the trailer), the rear axle decreased by 420 lbs. Overall, the weight of the tow vehicle decreased by 120 lbs and trailer increased by the 120 lbs, but the combined weight remained the same.

From the weights before he added the WDH and TT, assuming the WDH at around 60 lbs, it would suggest that the actual TT tongue weight in his case was around 700 lbs. So after engaging the bars, the tongue weight to be applied against the tow vehicle as payload drops to 580 lbs, not the full 700 lbs.

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600
Add DW, Wondermutt, misc belongings = 300
Est. Total = 5900
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Old 04-30-2015, 10:41 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by TommyAjax View Post
Agreed...but what shows in the real-world example from CamperBob is that when the WDH bars are engaged, front axle and trailer axle weights increased (300 lbs to the front, 120 lbs to the trailer), the rear axle decreased by 420 lbs. Overall, the weight of the tow vehicle decreased by 120 lbs and trailer increased by the 120 lbs, but the combined weight remained the same.

From the weights before he added the WDH and TT, assuming the WDH at around 60 lbs, it would suggest that the actual TT tongue weight in his case was around 700 lbs. So after engaging the bars, the tongue weight to be applied against the tow vehicle as payload drops to 580 lbs, not the full 700 lbs.

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600
Add DW, Wondermutt, misc belongings = 300
Est. Total = 5900
I think there may be some weight "lost" as it distributes it across all axels, truck and trailer. Whether front or rear axle on the truck it's still payload. The "weight" that is distributed to the trailer axles is what would have been tongue weight but is now trailer weight. In either case, I SWAG is the gain is fairly minimal and shouldn't be used to increase allowable payload of the truck.
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Old 04-30-2015, 11:45 AM   #34
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As far as I understand it a WDH does not reduce or affect your tongue weight. Arguments can be made either way but it is probably safer or more conservative to say that the weight transfer caused from engaging the WDH bars does not reduce tongue weight.

For your other question. Your truck was built on an assembly line along with many other trucks with many available options. It is cheaper to use the same axles for all models so they are built to specs required for a more heavy duty application.
GVWR will essentially be set to the weakest link of the vehicle in question. In your case with the Sport 4x4 I would guess the suspension was upgraded or changed for a better ride offroad at the cost of payload capacity.
Your motor is the same as other Rams.
Your gearing is better suited than most.
Transmission will be the same.
Axles.....same.
Brakes are probably the same??
Transmission cooler? This could be different but I would think this would affect tow capacity not payload.

So "theoretically" if you identify your weakest link and upgrade that you should get a more comfortable towing experience. Upgrading your suspension with airbags or Timbrens would help with payload handling (not capacity). Or getting a set of coils off a higher rated GVWR Ram may be an option.

None of this will increase the "legal" payload capacity but could help if you are towing right on the line. Certainly with peace of mind and stability.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:01 PM   #35
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As an example the only difference (I have read) between my F250's 9900lbs GVWR and a 10000+ lbs F350 is the spring pack.

In reality there are probably a few other changes as well but.....
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:53 PM   #36
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Hi everyone,

Is anyone towing with a Tacoma Long Bed V6 truck? My TV is an F350, but a friend wants to get into TT's that he could tow with his Tacoma. Any suggestions as to trailer size?

Thanks,
You would likely get a better response to your question if you opened a new thread as many members may never see it buried in this one.
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:27 PM   #37
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Let me re-do the math...I used the wrong starting point earlier. Should be a starting point of 5600 lbs for the truck as weighed, not the 5900 lbs which included wife and dogs.

He added 980 lbs of payload/tongue weight to his truck (going from 5600 lbs to 6580 lbs on the truck axles). If we assume the WDH weighs about 60 lbs, then the trailer hitch weight is about 920 lbs to make up the total 980 lbs added as payload to the truck GVW. The GCWV is 13240 lbs.

He then reduced the tow vehicle GVW by 120 lbs but increased the trailer GVW by 120 lbs by engaging the WDH bars. The GCWV remains the same at 13240 lbs.

It has not changed the GVWR of the truck or the trailer, but it has reduced the amount of payload/GVW on the truck axles by putting some of it on the trailer axles.

Didn't mean to imply that the WDH reduces the tongue weight or changes the truck GVWR. What I am trying to say is that a portion of the tongue weight (ie. 10-20%) is transferred to the trailer axles and would count against the trailer GVW rather than the truck GVW.

Again, the example provided by CamperBob:

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

Again, I am very appreciative of all of the discussion on this from the group...we are now leaning away from the 28BHBE and considering the 26BH which has a 485 lb advertised hitch weight vs the 610 lbs on the BHBE which would put me under on all of the capacity points and is $10k cheaper.

Also considering a Keystone Bullet 272BHS which is the same floor plan as the 28BHBE but has a 510 lbs hitch weight and is same price as Jayco 28BHBE.
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:54 PM   #38
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Don't forget to factor in unsprung weight. The truck is not supporting unsprung weight. That's not on the sticker but it's not the only thing missing either; and since we are required to do the math to make these decision lets be sure and do some study of mechanicals and be fair with ourselves the same as with taxes.

Subtract all the unsprung weight and go buy a bigger camper and relax.
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyAjax View Post
Let me re-do the math...I used the wrong starting point earlier. Should be a starting point of 5600 lbs for the truck as weighed, not the 5900 lbs which included wife and dogs.

He added 980 lbs of payload/tongue weight to his truck (going from 5600 lbs to 6580 lbs on the truck axles). If we assume the WDH weighs about 60 lbs, then the trailer hitch weight is about 920 lbs to make up the total 980 lbs added as payload to the truck GVW. The GCWV is 13240 lbs.

He then reduced the tow vehicle GVW by 120 lbs but increased the trailer GVW by 120 lbs by engaging the WDH bars. The GCWV remains the same at 13240 lbs.

It has not changed the GVWR of the truck or the trailer, but it has reduced the amount of payload/GVW on the truck axles by putting some of it on the trailer axles.

Didn't mean to imply that the WDH reduces the tongue weight or changes the truck GVWR. What I am trying to say is that a portion of the tongue weight (ie. 10-20%) is transferred to the trailer axles and would count against the trailer GVW rather than the truck GVW.

Again, the example provided by CamperBob:

Weigh 1: Truck with full gas and me.
Steer Axle: 3300
Drive Axle: 2300
Total: 5600

Weigh 2: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars disengaged
Steer Axle: 2900
Drive Axle: 3680
Trailer Axle: 6660
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6580 lbs, TT = 6660 lbs

Weigh 3: Truck with TT connected, WDH bars engaged
Steer Axle: 3200
Drive Axle: 3260
Trailer Axle: 6780
Total: 13240 - Truck GVW = 6460 lbs, TT = 6780 lbs

Again, I am very appreciative of all of the discussion on this from the group...we are now leaning away from the 28BHBE and considering the 26BH which has a 485 lb advertised hitch weight vs the 610 lbs on the BHBE which would put me under on all of the capacity points and is $10k cheaper.

Also considering a Keystone Bullet 272BHS which is the same floor plan as the 28BHBE but has a 510 lbs hitch weight and is same price as Jayco 28BHBE.

I looked at the Keystone 272BHS. If I recall correctly it's water tank is ahead of the axles so as soon as you put water in it you will be nearing the same tongue weight as the 28BHBE. If you can get by with smaller bunks the 23MBH actually has a lot of room inside for being a smaller overall trailer.
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Old 04-30-2015, 03:28 PM   #40
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I would not worry about it, Your ram is fine for that trailer, I have never had any issues with my old trailer or the new one (Only pulled the new one 200 miles). Yes I have airbags in my truck. I have a buddy who runs airbags, puts an ATV in the bed, and pulls his 27ft TT just fine all over (also has Ram 1500). Now if you are pulling in the mountains then I would think you need bigger breaks/motor on the TV, but you are just fine with that set up. Plus I am sure there is Safety factor worked into everything.
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