towing question about WDH setup

[shrpshtr]

All,

I noticed something while bringing my TT home the other day ahead of Hurricane Irma. The rear-end of my truck seemed REALLY light when I was towing above 50mph; almost like it had too much lift from the WDH bars. Felt as if I had very little traction at the rear axle. It was concerning enough that I stopped about 1/2 way home and dropped a link on each side of the WDH. It didn't really seem to help much though. It's never felt that "squirrelly" on the back end before.

Truck setup and conditions: I use an EAZ WDH with 2 - 1000lb bars. I hang the chains on the 2nd link which puts a slight bow in both 1000lb bars. The truck sits nice and level like this when it's loaded and I have very little porpoise-ing or TT sway under normal conditions. I also had 1 of my anti-sway bars hooked up. Clear sunny day with and winds were variable direction and blowing pretty steady about 15-18mph, gusting to maybe 30mph. It's about a 50 mile trip from dealer to my house.

So, my questions:
1-Can you actually over torque the hitch with the WDH bars and cause enough lift on the hitch/back axle to loose control of the vehicle at speed?
2-Could this have been related to the higher-than-normal wind speeds and towing conditions?
3-I have a 2nd anti-sway bar that I have never had to use. Would hooking it up have helped or possible put more stress on the "loose" rear end?

Thanks in advance.

shrp

[SOMBATFAMILY]

I have same trailer as you and I only experience loose rear end on newly wet road starting from stop. Your TV probably doesn't need a lot of weigh to be redistributed to front axle. But even if your trailer TW is 1000#, WDH doesn't put all that weight to front axle no matter how much tension you put on your spring bar. Cat scale will give you the answers you seek. Another thing is that the anti-sway control doesn't do anything to your loads on the axles. Anti-sway only prevent trailer from moving side to side.

Is your TV and Trailer level? Good tires?

[DanNJanice]

Originally Posted by shrpshtr

All,

I noticed something while bringing my TT home the other day ahead of Hurricane Irma. The rear-end of my truck seemed REALLY light when I was towing above 50mph; almost like it had too much lift from the WDH bars. Felt as if I had very little traction at the rear axle. It was concerning enough that I stopped about 1/2 way home and dropped a link on each side of the WDH. It didn't really seem to help much though. It's never felt that "squirrelly" on the back end before.

Truck setup and conditions: I use an EAZ WDH with 2 - 1000lb bars. I hang the chains on the 2nd link which puts a slight bow in both 1000lb bars. The truck sits nice and level like this when it's loaded and I have very little porpoise-ing or TT sway under normal conditions. I also had 1 of my anti-sway bars hooked up. Clear sunny day with and winds were variable direction and blowing pretty steady about 15-18mph, gusting to maybe 30mph. It's about a 50 mile trip from dealer to my house.

So, my questions:
1-Can you actually over torque the hitch with the WDH bars and cause enough lift on the hitch/back axle to loose control of the vehicle at speed?
2-Could this have been related to the higher-than-normal wind speeds and towing conditions?
3-I have a 2nd anti-sway bar that I have never had to use. Would hooking it up have helped or possible put more stress on the "loose" rear end?

Thanks in advance.

shrp

I would suspect this is being caused by wind, given that you have never had issues with you rig in the past. 30mph gusts would certainly be noticeable.
Regarding your questions.
1) It is possible to overtighten the spring bars. But normally this only happens if the spring bars far exceed the tongue weight of the trailer. I don't think that is the case for you. In the end, only taking the truck and trailer to a scale and weighing them will tell you what is going on.
2) Certainly could be related to gusty winds. Also, where your tanks full/partly full? Sometimes the sloshing water will make the trailer feel unstable.
3) Can't say about the sway bar as I don't use them. I don't think adding a second one would hurt anything, as long as you don't turn too tight.

[bankr63]

Also consider how your weight was distributed in the TT. Was it normally loaded? Too much weight behind the TT axle can cause the TT to start pushing the TV around; extreme cases are very unstable. Did you load a bunch of stuff under or in the rear bunk area?

[shrpshtr]

Originally Posted by bankr63

Also consider how your weight was distributed in the TT. Was it normally loaded? Too much weight behind the TT axle can cause the TT to start pushing the TV around; extreme cases are very unstable. Did you load a bunch of stuff under or in the rear bunk area?

No, it was loaded normally. I was picking it up from a 6 week stint at CW for warranty work.

I have same trailer as you and I only experience loose rear end on newly wet road starting from stop. Your TV probably doesn't need a lot of weigh to be redistributed to front axle. But even if your trailer TW is 1000#, WDH doesn't put all that weight to front axle no matter how much tension you put on your spring bar. Cat scale will give you the answers you seek. Another thing is that the anti-sway control doesn't do anything to your loads on the axles. Anti-sway only prevent trailer from moving side to side.

Is your TV and Trailer level? Good tires?

TV & TT are level and tires are good (< 1500 miles & 1 y/o) and properly inflated. I understand the anti-sway behavior. My main concern was that it might make it feel more unstable by adding more tension on the rear of the truck due to the it having to help absorb the cross-winds (premise of how sway bars work). Make sense?

I would suspect this is being caused by wind, given that you have never had issues with you rig in the past. 30mph gusts would certainly be noticeable.
Regarding your questions.
1) It is possible to overtighten the spring bars. But normally this only happens if the spring bars far exceed the tongue weight of the trailer. I don't think that is the case for you. In the end, only taking the truck and trailer to a scale and weighing them will tell you what is going on.
2) Certainly could be related to gusty winds. Also, where your tanks full/partly full? Sometimes the sloshing water will make the trailer feel unstable.
3) Can't say about the sway bar as I don't use them. I don't think adding a second one would hurt anything, as long as you don't turn too tight.

All tanks were dry with the exception of about 10 gals in the black tank. I'm really wanting to focus on the upward force caused by the spring bars. Assuming 15% TT weight is TW, then I'd guess around 1200-1400 lbs maybe. With 2 - 1000lb bars, would that be enough to consider it far exceeding the TW? It is a mother to put the spring bars on the 2nd link of the chain. I have to use 2 - 6x6 boards stacked to jack the bed of the truck about as high as the electric jack will take it and it BARELY fits into the 2nd link. This link is the only way I've been able to achieve level though. Setting it on 1 link, or moving the ball vertically down the hitch a hole and going 2 links never seems to level the back end of the truck.

Thanks for the response thus far.

shrp

[bansai]

I have to jack my truck up pretty high to get my spring bars hooked up, not quite as high as you do though.

Step one for me when adjusting these things is to level the camper on flat ground. Back the truck up right next to the coupler, without hooking up. Adjust the height of the hitch ball so when hooked up, you would, in theory remain level still ( you won't due to sag, but that's dealt with in the next step) I shoot for just a little bit nose down if I can't get it perfectly level.

Then it's all about taking measurements with the tape measure, and adjusting the hitch until the distance from your front wheel wells to the ground is as close as it was completely unloaded, as possible. I've found that 90% of the time, if you can get that part right, the rest of the setup figures itself out.

You have a different hitch than me, but it looks like the process for determining if it is adjusted properly would be about the same, and is probably the first, and hopefully only thing you need to look at, assuming you are loaded properly, etc... and I'm presuming that you are

[bankr63]

@bansai's advice is good. My dealer totally botched the install of our WDH and Anti-sway. I just looked up the instructions online for my specific model and followed them. It was pretty easy, and my towing was much improved. Instructions for yours should be easy to find online.

The dealer install pretty much went south at step 1 and got worse from there. I had to change hitch height (one hole), hitch head angle (4 more washers), and the anti-sway bracket was installed backwards.

[DanNJanice]

Originally Posted by shrpshtr

No, it was loaded normally. I was picking it up from a 6 week stint at CW for warranty work.



TV & TT are level and tires are good (< 1500 miles & 1 y/o) and properly inflated. I understand the anti-sway behavior. My main concern was that it might make it feel more unstable by adding more tension on the rear of the truck due to the it having to help absorb the cross-winds (premise of how sway bars work). Make sense?



All tanks were dry with the exception of about 10 gals in the black tank. I'm really wanting to focus on the upward force caused by the spring bars. Assuming 15% TT weight is TW, then I'd guess around 1200-1400 lbs maybe. With 2 - 1000lb bars, would that be enough to consider it far exceeding the TW? It is a mother to put the spring bars on the 2nd link of the chain. I have to use 2 - 6x6 boards stacked to jack the bed of the truck about as high as the electric jack will take it and it BARELY fits into the 2nd link. This link is the only way I've been able to achieve level though. Setting it on 1 link, or moving the ball vertically down the hitch a hole and going 2 links never seems to level the back end of the truck.

Thanks for the response thus far.

shrp

If anything I think your bars might be a little light for that trailer. I have the 27RLS and my tongue weight is > 1200lbs. So I think your estimated tongue weight of 1200-1400 lbs is about right. I just ordered a set of 1400lb spring bars for mine(old ones were 1000lbs), after taking it to a scale and getting the tongue weight. Also, the need to lift the tongue so high to get close to level makes me think your bars may be a little light.
Some other things to think about. 250s/2500s do not usually have the stiffness in the rear springs that a 3500 does. My Ford F250 sits almost dead level with nothing in the bed. With the WDH installed it squats about 1.5". Without the WDH it is closer to 3+ inches. Getting it back to level with that much tongue weight is almost impossible.
IMO, based on the fact that your rig has been fine up to now, I still say you are likely just feeling wind gusts.

[Camper_bob]

Something that no one (that I could see) has touched on is your goal of leveling the truck. That is NOT a goal of a WDH. The goal is for lost weight to be transferred back to the front axle. The attitude of the truck is a by-product.

When you're measuring your fenders, the only reason you measure the rear at all during setup of the hitch is to ensure that it is NOT HIGHER with WDH engaged than when unloaded. Generally, the rear of most trucks will squat a little when under load, even with a WDH engaged.

I think it's entirely possible you're transferring too much weight to the front axle. And the 1000 lb bars will absolutely do it with 12-1400 lb tongue weight.

Of course, the strong winds could be the culprit as well, but first thing I would do is measure the front fenders (not hitched, hitched without WDH, hitched with WDH) and see where you're at, and make sure your rear fender is not higher hitched with WDH engaged than unhitched. If all that checks out, I'd take it to a CAT scale and get some weights to verify I'd done it right. It costs a little time, but it's well worth it IMO.

Another possibility is that you're set up for "loaded" conditions, and you were towing empty. I tend to add quite a bit of tongue weight (intentionally) as well as other weight when I'm towing for a trip. But when I'm hauling it back to the storage lot empty, you can certainly feel the difference.

Best of luck with your search, and let us know how it turns out!

[Marcm157]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Another possibility is that you're set up for "loaded" conditions, and you were towing empty. I tend to add quite a bit of tongue weight (intentionally) as well as other weight when I'm towing for a trip. But when I'm hauling it back to the storage lot empty, you can certainly feel the difference.

This is exactly why I never let a dealer set up my WDH. They all set it up with the trailer and most likely the truck empty. I do the same as you Bob and load fairly heavy on my tongue My truck tows better that way and that's why I set my hitch up with my truck and trailer fully loaded.

[shrpshtr]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Something that no one (that I could see) has touched on is your goal of leveling the truck. That is NOT a goal of a WDH. The goal is for lost weight to be transferred back to the front axle. The attitude of the truck is a by-product.

When you're measuring your fenders, the only reason you measure the rear at all during setup of the hitch is to ensure that it is NOT HIGHER with WDH engaged than when unloaded. Generally, the rear of most trucks will squat a little when under load, even with a WDH engaged.

I think it's entirely possible you're transferring too much weight to the front axle. And the 1000 lb bars will absolutely do it with 12-1400 lb tongue weight.

Of course, the strong winds could be the culprit as well, but first thing I would do is measure the front fenders (not hitched, hitched without WDH, hitched with WDH) and see where you're at, and make sure your rear fender is not higher hitched with WDH engaged than unhitched. If all that checks out, I'd take it to a CAT scale and get some weights to verify I'd done it right. It costs a little time, but it's well worth it IMO.

Another possibility is that you're set up for "loaded" conditions, and you were towing empty. I tend to add quite a bit of tongue weight (intentionally) as well as other weight when I'm towing for a trip. But when I'm hauling it back to the storage lot empty, you can certainly feel the difference.

Best of luck with your search, and let us know how it turns out!

This is exactly the principle I am thinking is the culprit I was just unaware of how to articulate it. I will definitely check the measurements this weekend and update you all. What you're describing is exactly how it "felt" when pulling. As previously mentioned, I do believe this to be a combination of factors. It just seems to have manifested itself to a noticeable point because of those conditions (setup, speed, and wind).

Thanks again for everyone's insight. Good stuff here ladies & gents!

shrp