Towing the 26BH with a Toyota Tacoma

[lagman]

I'm about to sign the paperwork for a new Jay Flight 26BH. My only concern is with my TV. Although the RV dealership has assured me I have nothing to worry about, I've read conflicting opinions with regard to this particular TT/TV combo. I'm interested to get opinions from people who have a similar TT/TV setup. Here are the specifics:

TV:
2013 Tacoma 4x4 w/Towing Package rated at 6400lbs (Payload: 1295lbs, Tongue Load: 640lbs)
Reese time delay brake controller
Curt 600lb WDH
Curt double sway control

TT:
Jayco Jay Flight 26BH
Dry Weight (actual dry weight, from sticker on the door. Includes full propane tanks): 4950lbs
We camp pretty light so I figure we wouldn't have more than 300lbs of equipment, plus about 500lbs in the TV to account for the family and suit cases. I plan to travel with the water/holding tanks empty at all times. I would imagine we will take 2 or 3 100 mile+ trips per year but most will likely be within a 20-30 mile radius of where we live.

Is this a safe TT/TV combo? Will I be white knuckling it every time we go anywhere? Is there anything else I am missing (e.g. extended mirrors, etc) that would make it even more safe?

Thanks,
Dan

[Rustic Eagle]

Dan,

Welcome to JOF

Since you already have the Tacoma, IMO you would benefit greatly by confirming the "loaded" weight of your TV at a CAT scale before purchasing a new TT......., knowing this information will reduce a lot of the guess work and increase one's confidence in a TT purchase.

(Your 2013 Tacoma GVWR) - (CAT Scale Gross weight) = Remaining weight available for "loaded" tongue weight and any passenger/cargo/WDH weight not accounted for in TV

A little "must read" info on manufacture published Tow Ratings: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

Snap shot of Jay Flight 26BH:

Ship Weight .................................. 4,950lbs (yellow sticker)
RV Dealer ........................................ 125lbs (battery, WDH, etc.)
Cargo & Stuff ................................. 300lbs (your figure.., definitely on the lite side/below average/no fluids, etc.)

Loaded TT weight ........................... 5,375lbs (TT GVWR 7,500lbs)

Loaded Tongue Weight 10% to 15% (of 5,375lbs) ....... 538lbs to 806lbs (13% = 699lbs)

NOTE: On a 29ft long TT a 13% to 15% loaded tongue weight range would enhance TV handling.

Just curious, what data/conditions did your dealership present to support their statement; "RV dealership has assured me I have nothing to worry about" ??

Just some food for thought.

Bob

[clubhouse]

Based on my experience towing a 26BH I wouldn't want to do it.

First I can assure that 600lb WDH bars aren't enough, at the very minimum 800. Little surprise your yellow sticker weight is sub-5K...ours is ~5300 lbs...and ready to camp (very limited water in tanks) ~5900 +/- lbs.

Secondly, we orginally planned to tow with our '04 Tahoe. After a couple trips we "offically" weighed things and we were exceeding the Tahoe Cargo Carrying Capacity...no problem we also had a PU so we started using our '04 Silverado extended cab same engine/transmission/readend as the Tahoe. The 04' Silverardo was with in spec but I didn't like the 4 speed transmission when towing in the mountains and the extended cab made the back seat a little light for the kids. Although I could easily have gotten an newer 1500 crew cab with 6 speed and been fine, but I found a good deal on a 2500--so that is what I have now, just in case we follow though on our plan to upgrade TT.

By no means do I think a 3/4 ton is need for the 26BH, but I don't think you will be comfortable long term with the Tacoma.

[RightYouAreKen]

No way would I do it. We towed a 3500 lb dry Lance 1685 with our old Tacoma and felt it was maxed. No much power. We traded that and got a 5.0 F150 and just bought a Jayco 24FBS that weighs 5500 lbs dry and its all I'd want to tow with the F150. Thinking of towing something like this with a Tacoma...yikes.

[lagman]

Thanks for the reply. I actually did pull through a CAT station last week with the family and the truck weighed in at 4670 lbs with a full tank of gas. I checked and the WDH and sway bar together weigh about 100lbs, so we're up to 4770. GVWR of the Tacoma is 5450lbs, so that leaves 680lbs. So given a tank of gas is roughly 130 lbs, I would have somewhere between 680 and 810lbs available for the TT TW, which seems to fall into the needed range based on 10-15% of loaded TT weight. Did I do the math correctly?

[lagman]

How old was your Tacoma? I know the 1st gen Tacomas had a much lower towing capacity than the newer ones.

Originally Posted by RightYouAreKen

No way would I do it. We towed a 3500 lb dry Lance 1685 with our old Tacoma and felt it was maxed. No much power. We traded that and got a 5.0 F150 and just bought a Jayco 24FBS that weighs 5500 lbs dry and its all I'd want to tow with the F150. Thinking of towing something like this with a Tacoma...yikes.

[clubhouse]

I still think you are going to short of available payload with the Tacoma, but more importantly can you keep the entire combination below the 11k lbs GCWR?

Based on your numbers the Tacoma weighs right at 5500lb and the 26BH at 5300 (which I think is very light based on my own 26Bh) which is 10,800 cutting very lose to the GCWR of the Tacoma.

Personally I think that GCWR is very important to not exceed, that is directly related to stopping ability.

I know you must think we are all raining on your parade, but it is better to face the facts now and not after spending the money for a TT.

[clubhouse]

^nevermind. I just reread your scale weights and the GCVWR doesn't appear to be as tight as I thought.

[WIBadger]

Dan -- I don't know too much about your Tacoma nor have I done much research regarding its towing capabilities. At a minimum, however, I would suggest you take a peek at these links:

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tow...html#post35017 at the Tacoma forum and http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...g/25900976.cfm

I can’t stress this point enough: PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE RV DEALERSHIP AND ITS SALES ASSOCIATES. The dealership is there to SELL you the RV/TT -- NOT to educate you on safe towing practices, the limitations of your tow vehicle, or anything else about towing (it would be nice if they did, but when money is involved it’s Buyer Beware (Caveat emptor)). You need to educate yourself about towing issues and know the limitations of your tow vehicle. This forum, along with other internet sites, can ease the pain and bring much insight to this topic. However, you alone need to ensure that your TV-TT combo is safely configured.

I noticed that you listed the max tongue wt for the Tacoma at 640lbs. Based upon RusticEagle's conservative calculations, you will require about 700lbs of tongue weight (I’m going to guess something closer between 720-750lbs). See also this Jayco forum link for some discussion on tongue weights: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...-tongue-weight

The tongue weight issue goes to an issue you may not have taken into account -- the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) for your rear axle. What is the Tacoma's GAWR for the rear axle? Did you get that value when weighing the loaded Tacoma?

Here’s another calculation that you should consider: (tongue weight + loaded rear axle weight) – rear GAWR. If this yields a negative number, you are under the GAWR and OK; if a positive number, you are over the GAWR and not recommended.

Although the discussion has been on "towing numbers," you should also factor in wind drag and climbing performances. IMHO, based upon the little I have already seen, I would not recommend the Tacoma as a tow vehicle for the 26BH.

Finally, after reading the above (and comments from others), I know your next question – “Ok, the Tacoma doesn’t appear to be a great TV for my TT, but based upon my limited, intended use – (2) or (3) 100 mile+ trips per year but most within a 20-30 mile radius of where we live – can I still get by?” The answer from folks with towing experience will probably say, “yes,” (ie, anything is possible) but we aren’t going to recommend the Tacoma for your TT due to the potential damage to your TV and the potential safety issues for you and your family, as well as other drivers on the roadways. Think about this question: what do you think will happen if you blow a rear tire at 55mph?

[RightYouAreKen]

Originally Posted by lagman

How old was your Tacoma? I know the 1st gen Tacomas had a much lower towing capacity than the newer ones.

It was a 2011 double cab long bed 4x4 4.0 v6.

Since the Tacoma's hitch weight limit is 650 lbs or somewhere around there, I think you need to be looking at a trailer with no more than 400 lbs dry tongue weight. As soon as you add batteries and propane you'll be really close even then.

[Raugustin]

I don't think it really matters about the battery and propane, these are simply weights that increase the GVW of the TT. The best solution is to load the truck up with everything that you expect to have in the TV when your are actually towing (cargo, kids, pets etc). Take the loaded truck to the CAT scale and determine the actual GVW and GAW's. once you have these you can calculate the available payload by subtracting the actual GVW from the GVWR. Now you can simply calculate 13% of the GVWR of the trailer you interested in to see if it's a safe match. You may not load the trailer to the GVWR, if that is the case you can use the yellow sticker weight and add between 800 - 1000 lbs as an average or typical camping load. Anyway the use is to balance the overall weight of the trailers payload to try and get the to tongue weight at or near the 10 - 15% the is recommended by the OEM's.

Ron

Originally Posted by RightYouAreKen

It was a 2011 double cab long bed 4x4 4.0 v6.

Since the Tacoma's hitch weight limit is 650 lbs or somewhere around there, I think you need to be looking at a trailer with no more than 400 lbs dry tongue weight. As soon as you add batteries and propane you'll be really close even then.

[amabee]

The number I am not seeing, and maybe I missed it, is the actual GCWR. I have a feeling you are going to be pushing right at that number. The reason this concerns me, looking at the Toyota website, the highest GCWR I see is 11,100lbs. If the TV is at 4770 + 5300lbs, that puts you at 10070, which just gives you a 1000lb margin, to me that's cutting it close.

[taconunn]

I have one 06 dbl cab long box weight of trailer will be around 5200 lbs ... I will be fine. they are tough trucks ... i plan on keeping mine for a couple of years then trading up into a F150

[mikmurphy]

Seeing this and other threads on towing capacity sent me to my owner's manual, again, for our 2011 Silverado 1500. It's a 4WD extended cab/long bed with the HD towing package with 5.3L V8 and 3.42 gears. GVW for it is 7,000. Maximum trailer weight to tow is 9,300; combined truck/trailer weight is 15,000. This should allow a comfortable margin for the WhiteHawk 27DSRL with gross weight of 7,500 plus/minus, depending on how we load it.

Interestingly, though, going a few more pages through the manual to the 2500 (or 3/4 ton) version, same 4WD/Extended cab/long bed, with the 6.0 V8 and 3.73 gears, it only gains 100 lbs to 9,400 for total trailer weight; and 1000 lbs, to 16K for combined weight of truck and trailer. Looks like it's only when you upgrade to the 3500 (1 ton) truck that you see real weight hauling gains.

I've had good experience with this truck hauling our skid steer on a 18' flatbed, total weight of around 8K; and a water trailer, with 700 gallons of water, unit likely weighs 7K plus. The Allison transmission in tow mode does a great job with TX hill country hills; and also at downshifting when slowing down. The test will come this August when we haul the new WhiteHawk to OR!

Mike

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by mikmurphy

snip..... Interestingly, though, going a few more pages through the manual to the 2500 (or 3/4 ton) version, same 4WD/Extended cab/long bed, with the 6.0 V8 and 3.73 gears, it only gains 100 lbs to 9,400 for total trailer weight; and 1000 lbs, to 16K for combined weight of truck and trailer. Looks like it's only when you upgrade to the 3500 (1 ton) truck that you see real weight hauling gains.....snip

Mike,

Where the notable difference comes into play between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton is in the Payload Capacity and GVWR, which helps a lot with the heavier loaded tongue weights. Here is a recent thread started on the subject: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...9-1500-to-2500

Bob

[Terry]

Originally Posted by lagman

Here are the specifics:

TV:

Reese time delay brake controller


TT:
Jayco Jay Flight 26BH
Dry Weight (actual dry weight, from sticker on the door. Includes full propane tanks): 4950lbs
We camp pretty light so I figure we wouldn't have more than 300lbs of equipment, plus about 500lbs in the TV to account for the family and suit cases.

Hey Dan - just a couple of observations and opinions I will throw out (I am not a tow expert!)....

First of all....I would not want to be on the edge and say "only 300lbs" of equipment. In my opinion that really would limit you. I know by the time I had some cokes, water bottles, dutch ovens, charcoal, firewood, etc it really starts to add up. You may feel that way to start, but once you find how nice it is to have some of those amenities with you, it might change what you want to bring. You will be amazed how fast stuff adds up - clothes, mattress topper, oven stone, coffee maker, etc....

Second - I would recommend you do some research on brake controllers and see about upgrading to a good proportional controller. I have never had a time delay controller, but I dont think you would be happy with that either pulling a large load.

Hope all works out for you! Please let us know what you decide.

[RightYouAreKen]

Gvwr, gcwr, axle ratings, are all irrelevant at this point. You are going to run out of room on your hitch rating before anything else most likely. If the limit is 640 tongue weight, at a conservative 13%, that means a max LOADED trailer weight of 4923 lbs. The hitch weight might be as high as 15%, then you'll be over your hitch limit. The 26bh by your own numbers is at or above that weight without any of your stuff in it.

Sorry, don't think it's going to work if you care about staying in limits.

[taconunn]

Originally Posted by RightYouAreKen

Gvwr, gcwr, axle ratings, are all irrelevant at this point. You are going to run out of room on your hitch rating before anything else most likely. If the limit is 640 tongue weight, at a conservative 13%, that means a max LOADED trailer weight of 4923 lbs. The hitch weight might be as high as 15%, then you'll be over your hitch limit. The 26bh by your own numbers is at or above that weight without any of your stuff in it.

Sorry, don't think it's going to work if you care about staying in limits.

Good points ... I am close to my limit at 4339 dry another 600-800 lbs I would not have bought it.

[Raugustin]

Hi Ken,

Are you not suppose to balance your trailers load to achieve the appropriate/desired tongue weight based on your trailers total GVW?

Ron

Originally Posted by RightYouAreKen

Gvwr, gcwr, axle ratings, are all irrelevant at this point. You are going to run out of room on your hitch rating before anything else most likely. If the limit is 640 tongue weight, at a conservative 13%, that means a max LOADED trailer weight of 4923 lbs. The hitch weight might be as high as 15%, then you'll be over your hitch limit. The 26bh by your own numbers is at or above that weight without any of your stuff in it.

Sorry, don't think it's going to work if you care about staying in limits.

[RightYouAreKen]

Originally Posted by Raugustin

Hi Ken,

Are you not suppose to balance your trailers load to achieve the appropriate/desired tongue weight based on your trailers total GVW?

Ron

Sure, to an extent. But, the general guidelines are that you need 10-15% of the total trailer weight on the hitch, with the upper end of that range being preferred for stable towing. If you try to load too much on the rear of a trailer to lighten tongue weight you can end up with a very unstable tow. Also, if you ever tow with anything other than totally empty tanks, you have very little control over where that weight ends up. Most likely it's going to be in front of the axles contributing to more tongue weight, especially the fresh water tank.

Another thing to consider is that the tongue weights listed are just estimates. The tongue weight for my 24fbs is listed in the Jayco literature as 605 lbs. I weighed it totally empty and it was more like 640 lbs, I'm sure some of that coming from the weight of the wd hitch. My literature shows the 26bh at 560 lbs dry hitch weight which leaves you very little room for error.

When I had my Tacoma and we were looking at trailers, we really liked the 19rd, but ruled it out because its hitch weight of 510 and overall weight of 3970 lbs was cutting it really close. The 26bh is a lot more trailer than that.