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04-28-2020, 01:16 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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Trailer Brake Help
Here are the details. I have a 2002 Jayco Quest 324G towed by a 2004 Ford Excursion. Both are new to me fall of 2018. I installed a Prodigy P2 and did some basic test to make sure the controller was working before our 1st trip. Held the manual lever and it resisted being pulled.
By the end of the 1st trip I had the controller maxed out without much noticeable help stopping. When I got home I adjusted the brakes so that they would spin about 1 rev. Took it out on our next big trip and same thing. I had the controller set to make without any noticeable help stopping. Once while rolling along at 25mph I manually applied the brakes and at most it started slowing us down and would have probably taken 500 feet to stop us.
This spring I have started diving into it to see if I have a wiring issues and here is where I am at. I tested truck side trailer plug can when manual override is fully applied i have 12v. Also tested plug ground to truck frame and had continuity. Trailer side plug I tested ground terminal to frame and had continuity. Tested from each brake negative to frame and had continuity.
I am at a loss for my next step. Any help would be appreciated.
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04-28-2020, 01:31 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,430
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The manual for the P2 is below. When setting up you should set the dial so they lock at 25 mph when pulling the lever manually, then back the adjustment off a little. I was going to also suggest adjusting the brakes but it sounds like you did already.
Keep in mind that the trailer brakes are intended to slow down the weight of the trailer, not the combined weight. Don't expect them to also stop the truck quickly, even at 25 mph.
I've had my P2 for almost 15 years. Two trailers and 3 different tow vehicles. It's been flawless.
If you still have trouble, call them. They are supposed to have excellent tech support. I have never had to call though.
https://www.towingproducts.net/Appli...ons/N90885.pdf
__________________
Chuck
2013 Jayco Jayfeather X20 E (sold)
2016 Chevy Silverado LTZ 2 Z71 Crew Cab (sold, and dearly missed)
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04-28-2020, 01:36 PM
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#3
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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DocBrown,
Sorry if I was not clear. Even with the dial set to max and manually engaging the controller all the way it barely slows the vehicle even after adjusting the brakes and now I am seeking help with more troubleshooting ideas other than those I have already conducted.
Thanks
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04-28-2020, 01:47 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,430
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You say you have continuity in the grounds, but are the magnets getting power? If you pull out the breakaway cable and then have someone pull the lever. You should hear the magnets engage.
Are the brake linings shiny? Could be they are just worn out.
Or the magnets could be worn out.
__________________
Chuck
2013 Jayco Jayfeather X20 E (sold)
2016 Chevy Silverado LTZ 2 Z71 Crew Cab (sold, and dearly missed)
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04-28-2020, 02:38 PM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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DocBrown,
When testing the brakes the 1st time I had my son pull the breakaway after I spun each wheel and and they slammed to a stop.
I have only removed one drum and pads had material and drums looked fine.
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04-28-2020, 02:47 PM
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#6
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Site Team
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: James Island, SC
Posts: 22,753
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I would investigate the ground. Maybe try a clamp between the trailer and truck chassis to eliminate the ground connection in the plug.
__________________
Moderator
2011- 351RLTS Eagle, MorRyde suspension/pin box,
2017- F350 6.7 PSD Lariat FX4,SRW, SB,CC
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B&W Turnover ball, Companion Std hitch
Can't find what you're looking on JOF? Try Jayco Owners Forum Custom Google Search
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04-28-2020, 02:49 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 3,430
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The shoes had material but are they shiny? They could be glazed and just not gripping the drum any longer, and it is an 18 yo trailer. Even if they aren't glazed they could simply have gotten hard over time.
The magnets are getting power obviously but they could be worn.
It sounds like everything is working like it's supposed to and you are getting some braking. They are probably worn out. Just like a car they don't last forever. With the age of the trailer my inclination would be to rebuild the brakes.
__________________
Chuck
2013 Jayco Jayfeather X20 E (sold)
2016 Chevy Silverado LTZ 2 Z71 Crew Cab (sold, and dearly missed)
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04-28-2020, 03:59 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hollister
Posts: 517
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I agree with Doc.
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04-29-2020, 06:55 AM
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#9
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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Thanks everyone. I will pull the drums off maybe this weekend and post some pictures.
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05-19-2020, 06:50 AM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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Finally got time to pull the wheels and drums. So it turns out the one that I checked when I realized the brakes were not working was the only one that was new. The rest were original with original pads. I checked the resistance of the magnets and the new one was 3ohms two of them were around 12ohms and one was 10million ohms. All drums but one look to be in great shape. One has a groove worn in it.
So it looks like 3 new assemblies and 1 new drum are the next step.
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05-20-2020, 05:47 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Hollister
Posts: 517
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Yep time for brakes!
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05-28-2020, 06:47 PM
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#12
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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Okay. I have replaced 3 brake assemblies and 4 drums. Soldered in all the new assemblies and tested that all four brakes are working by spinning the tires and removing the break-away cable and also applying the brake controller. I could still turn the wheels in both cases but it was very hard. I read that you have to burnish the brakes so I took it out for a 20-mile drive. After I hit the highway I applied the brake controller to the max setting while holding 60mph for 1/2 mile. I then proceeded to drive the remainder of the 20 miles trip and had 7 more stops before returning home. I have read that you should set your brake controller so that you can lock up the trailer brakes at 25mph using the controller and then backing it off a little. At the last stop before arriving home I applied only the brake controller at the max setting and still was unable to lock up the trailer brakes. I again checked continuity from the vehicle battery ground to the frame on the trailer with and it was .2ohms I check the voltage at the 1st brake that comes off the wiring and with the controller set to 11 I got 10volts. I also check with the breakaway pulled and with a battery at 12.3 volts I only had 6.3 volts. Another thing when applying the brake controller I get pretty load buzzing at the 1st brake in the wiring series but not at any of the rest.
My current plan is to jack up the trailer and check the adjustment on the brakes after breaking them on.
My question is does all of this sound accurate and should I expect this after this break-in period?
Also how would I check to see if the wires running through the axle have worn through without completely removing them?
Thanks
Eric
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05-28-2020, 08:32 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Colorado
Posts: 778
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Eric,
Breaking in the brakes is about mating the two surfaces together uses SEVERAL sequences of braking. I start out, dial turned up and controller set on B2, moving around 30-40 mph take foot off accelerator and use the manual slider to slow everything down to around 10-15 mph. Let off brakes, drive a bit to let them cool then repeat 3-4x. Next speed up to 55-60, slowing to low 20’s, repeat previous procedures, you will need to let them cool a bit longer. Last cycle is several sequences of high speed hard braking...brakes will be HOT!!!.
Turn controller down per instructions and drive normally to allow them to cool.
Regarding your reoccurring problem, check the wiring that goes through the axle. I had a 9k lb 5er I bought in the high Rockies, the first trip coming home it was obvious there was something wrong with them...butt puckering wrong! I got home, thanks to my Dually and set the magnets and did the above procedure, definitely an improvement but IMO they still didn’t meet the braking needs of a tow rig in the Rockies. I crawled under and looked at the wires. The drivers side connections were residential wire nuts NO waterproofing, the wires through the axle resembled the tiny wires you see in cheap LED lights. I cut the wires back until I saw nice shiny copper, then ran new 12 ga wires across across the top of the axles. Despite numerous attempts to get them through the axle I went on top. I ran them through loom and zip tied them in place. I used Dry conn connectors to connect everything. These are NOT reusable! The difference was night and day! I could stop the entire setup using just the Camper brakes! This is the point of the manual button should your vehicle brakes quit working. Hope this helps...
King Innovation 62225 DryConn Outdoor Electrical Wire Connector 20/Bag, Aqua/Red https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BW0YG2..._vnh0Eb1P3GVQF
__________________
JOHN
People Sleep Peacefully in Their Beds at Night Only Because Rough Men Stand Ready to Do Violence on Their Behalf
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05-29-2020, 09:49 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: midwest
Posts: 1,211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedspunisher
Okay. I have replaced 3 brake assemblies and 4 drums. Soldered in all the new assemblies and tested that all four brakes are working by spinning the tires and removing the break-away cable and also applying the brake controller. I could still turn the wheels in both cases but it was very hard. I read that you have to burnish the brakes so I took it out for a 20-mile drive. After I hit the highway I applied the brake controller to the max setting while holding 60mph for 1/2 mile. I then proceeded to drive the remainder of the 20 miles trip and had 7 more stops before returning home. I have read that you should set your brake controller so that you can lock up the trailer brakes at 25mph using the controller and then backing it off a little. At the last stop before arriving home I applied only the brake controller at the max setting and still was unable to lock up the trailer brakes. I again checked continuity from the vehicle battery ground to the frame on the trailer with and it was .2ohms I check the voltage at the 1st brake that comes off the wiring and with the controller set to 11 I got 10volts. I also check with the breakaway pulled and with a battery at 12.3 volts I only had 6.3 volts. Another thing when applying the brake controller I get pretty load buzzing at the 1st brake in the wiring series but not at any of the rest.
My current plan is to jack up the trailer and check the adjustment on the brakes after breaking them on.
My question is does all of this sound accurate and should I expect this after this break-in period?
Also how would I check to see if the wires running through the axle have worn through without completely removing them?
Thanks
Eric
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The voltage should be 12 at all the brakes... are you sure it is wired correctly? sounds like instead of parallel it may be in series??? just a thought...
did you buy self adjusting brakes? if not then you need to adjust them again to get the close to the drum...
does not sound normal there is something wrong with the wiring IMO... new brakes should lock up when you push the manual button...
have someone get in the TV start it and press the brakes and go listen to each wheel you should hear each one buzz if not, they are not getting the correct voltage.
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05-29-2020, 10:10 AM
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#15
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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curver900.
For wiring we have white and black from the plug to the LF this then gets tied into the wiring running to LR white to white black to black. At LF you have green magnet wires, one to white and one to black. There are also the axle wires that run to RF which one is tied to white and one is tied to black. At the LR white is tied to one green and black is tied to one green as well as one wire running to RR is tied to white and one wire is tied to black.
They are not self-adjusting. I adjusted them before "breaking them in" to where they would turn about 1 rev and stop.
My thoughts exactly.
As stated above only the first brake in the wiring (LF) is buzzing, the rest I hear nothing. Although all wheels have the same mechanical resistance when trying to overcome the brakes while jacked up. Also seems like if one was working properly it would lock up and not the rest.
As stated my current plan of action is to check the adjustment. Then I plan on checking voltage at each magnet by checking across one green wire to ground as well as current through the green wire. If all that looks good I will take it out for another break-in period. I will pullover and check the temps of each drum as well.
Thanks
Eric
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06-01-2020, 05:24 AM
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#16
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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Just a quick update from the weekend. I jacked up the wheels and checked the drag and adjusted the brakes again. I then checked the with the brakes applied and the 1st brake in the series was impossible to move while the others I could still forcefully turn. I then tired to check voltage. I pulled the break away and checked voltage at the battery and it went from 12.3 to 6v and just continued to go down. I have never checked this before nor did I know what normal was. All I thought is something does not seem right. So I proceeded to replace the wires running through the axles and found that the wires were worn through in severl places.
I got everything buttoned back up and took it out for a drive. I could feel the camper slowing me down this time and tugging a little on the truck. Still were not aggressive as I would like but I will give them time to continue to break-in.
Thanks everyone for you help. I hope this thread helps others as well.
Eric
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06-08-2020, 07:14 AM
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#17
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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So I went camping this weekend and the brakes worked for a while. Then the controller started acting up. It would show the output and then would drop to zero and would cycle and you could feel the trailer brakes grab and then release. So I ended up disconnected it. Any idea what could be going on?
Thanks
Eric
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06-08-2020, 09:17 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Way down here........FL
Posts: 2,097
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Wonder if there is also a problem with the controller??
__________________
Jack
2016 Pinnacle 36 KPTS
2016 F350 Lariat CC LB dually 6.7
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06-22-2020, 07:14 AM
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#19
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Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Oskaloosa
Posts: 20
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Latest Update on the brakes.
I called Tekonsha and they said it sounded like it was the controller and they were willing to send me a new one under warranty if I had purchased it brand new but I bought it used. So I purchased a new Brake EVN and installed it. Took it out on a short camping trip this past weekend and it failed to read that I was even applying the brakes on the way down to the campground. Then once I started backing up I felt them fighting me and looked down and sure enough the controller was working. It also worked on the trip home.
It acts like it is something loose at the signal wire to the controller. Where/How would one check for this?
Thanks
Eric
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06-25-2020, 11:21 PM
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#20
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Middletown
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fedspunisher
Latest Update on the brakes.
I called Tekonsha and they said it sounded like it was the controller and they were willing to send me a new one under warranty if I had purchased it brand new but I bought it used. So I purchased a new Brake EVN and installed it. Took it out on a short camping trip this past weekend and it failed to read that I was even applying the brakes on the way down to the campground. Then once I started backing up I felt them fighting me and looked down and sure enough the controller was working. It also worked on the trip home.
It acts like it is something loose at the signal wire to the controller. Where/How would one check for this?
Thanks
Eric
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I had a similar situation. One item that was a surprise to me being new to an RV travel trailer recently was inspecting the electric brakes.
I am familiar with conventional truck drum brakes but the electric type threw me an unexpected curve. The shoes were good, the magnet worked, but the stopping power didn't work well after significant time adjusting them.
What I found after packing the drums with new bearings, seals etc, is the magnets were worn at an angle. I replaced the whole electric shoe backing plate assemblies for all four, and stopping power spinning the wheel was much worse, again after considerable time adjusting them...The surface that the magnet touches on the drum was also worn at an angle, and I never gave it a thought that this was very important. I determined the drums were worn out too. I'd suggest checking the drum and magnet mating surfaces to see if angles and or groves exist since I overlooked this important part of the inspection. I ended up buying new drums, and replacing the new bearing races & seals while repacking again. The brakes work great now. Learned something new.
Also, regarding your question about the wiring. Etrailer had a good video with an end to end wiring checkout beginning at the controller.
Best of luck,
Bill
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