Upgrading slightly from jayflight 26BH

[sguzman]

We are looking to upgrade. Family members include H/W/8yr & 12 yr old dghtrs and small dog...The 26BH is wonderful but we need more floor space. On rainy days, we find that, while cooking or washing dishes, when girls want some private time on their bunks, they have to squeeze by me and they certainly can't play any board games on the floor and table is too small for hubby to be working and girls to be playing a game. Our TV is 2007 GMC Sierra, 8 cyl, I think 5.3 engine...That's all I know about the TV. Considering the 28BHS and the 25BHS. I really like the interior of the 25BHS as it seems very roomy on the inside. I guess the first question would be:
1) Can my TV safely carry the 25BHS as it's much heavier than the 28BHS
2) I have researched and researched and all info I find that compares both models, people seem to really like the 28BHS. What are the pro's to the 28BHS vs the 25BHS?
In reality, I think either one would work for our family and I think the 28BHS is about $2k cheaper but we don't want to make the same mistake we made the first time (just last year, by the way), buying a 2011 26BH and 1 yr later, realizing we needed more interior space. It's worth the $2k difference if it'll allow us to keep the trailer for a longer period of time.
Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Type-A]

Depending on the gear ratio of your TV you should be able to haul a 25BHS. My '11 Subby is rated for 8,000 pounds (I have 3.42 gears) so I can haul a 25 BHS. This past fall we walked thru a 26BH, 25BHS and a 28BHS and we preferred the 25BHS. In fact this week we'll be taking our 3rd and final walk thru these 3 models and I've got a feeling that we'll be going with the 25BHS.

[Rustic Eagle]

Sguzman,

Welcome to the Jayco forums

Originally Posted by sguzman

snip....... Can my TV safely carry the 25BHS as it's much heavier than the 28BHS .......snip

It's good that you are doing some TV do-diligence before making a major TT up-grade investment...., but a little more information about your TV would be helpful in addressing your question with confidence:

1) What model/body style Sierra (1500, 1500HD, 2500, etc.).
2) 4x4, or 2-wheel drive?
3) Please confirm engine size (4.8L, 5.3L, 6.0L, etc.)
4) Axle gear ratio (Identification sticker in glove box; look for 3-digit code starting with a "G").
5) GVWR (noted on drivers door).
6) GCVWR (noted in owners manual).
7) Published Tow Rating (noted in owners manual).
8) Payload capacity (noted in owners manual ?).

For reference, Jayco models being considered:

25BHS Weights:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 6,015 (lbs)
Dry Hitch Weight 775 (lbs)
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 8,180 (lbs)
Cargo Carrying Capacity 2,165 (lbs)

28BHS Weights:
Unloaded Vehicle Weight 5,215 (lbs)
Dry Hitch Weight 685 (lbs)
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating 7,500 (lbs)
Cargo Carrying Capacity 2,285 (lbs)

I hope that you are able to provide as much additional TV information as possible in your reply.

Thanks in advance.

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Type-A

snip...... My '11 Subby is rated for 8,000 pounds (I have 3.42 gears) so I can haul a 25 BHS .....snip

Russ,

Manufacture published tow ratings can be a little deceiving, the following thread may be helpful: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=3866

Bob

[sguzman]

@Type-A. Good luck on your purchase. You seem to be in the same position as we are. What factors are you considering in your decision process?
@ Rustic Eagle - I will try to get as much of that info as soon as I can. Thanks for helping. IMO the dealership should be figuring these things out for you but I've quickly learned that all they want is the sale.

[Crabman]

Welcome to the forum, sguzman! Its true you must do your own homework regarding what you can tow, not just rely on the dealer.

[sguzman]

Ok,, here's what I've found so far:
TV - 2007 GMC Sierra 1500
2 wheel drive
Definitely 5.3L engine
Will wait for hubby to get home to look for sticker on door and owner's manual. Thanks again for your help. I love this forum.
By the way, I know many people mentioned that they spend most of the day outdoors but we live in an extremely hot climate & have tended to spend hottest part of day in the trailer. Thus the need for more space. Thanks everyone. You're awesome.

[Type-A]

Originally Posted by sguzman

@Type-A. Good luck on your purchase. You seem to be in the same position as we are. What factors are you considering in your decision process?

Last year we rented a Conquest 25 which is the same layout as the 26BH except the forward bed goes across the width of the trailer not going front to back like the Jayco. That trailer was a perfect fit for us, although I wasn't a fan of the positioning of the couch (again, same as the 26BH). So we went and looked at Jayco's the day after returning from our trip and fell in love with the 25BHS. After a cooling off period of a few months we looked at the Jayco's again and still like the 26BH but still not a fan of the couch because if you are sitting all the way against the wall you are right next to the sink. The 25BHS is more money and we are just trying to justify that extra amount. The last thing we want to do is get the 26BH and then realize that we should of spent the extra money and gotten a 25BHS. So this coming weekend we are taking the family to do a walk thru one more time.

[Crabman]

One unwritten rule of thumb that is widely accepted to simplify the numbers is the "80% rule". Where you take your vehicles tow rating and subtract 20% to give you a cushion for the weight of passengers in the truck and intangibles. For example if your trucks tow rating is 10,000 lbs, you would buy a trailer that has a gross loaded weight or GVWR of no more then 8,000 lbs. This method is not a fail safe or absolute, but it is a good starting point. Using this method and even without subtracting the 20% cushion I`m afraid the 25BHS and its 8180lb GVWR would surpass the tow ratings and payload of your truck with either rear axle ratio.

One other question for future discussion, does your truck have the factory installed tow package? I know all this seems overwhelming but better to get it right before you buy.

[sguzman]

I usually love doing research but I'm not enjoying this anymore.. I've spent hours looking for info on our TV. Having a heck of a time finding info on our truck. Bought used from Carmax. Sticker on door of truck has been scraped off so no info available there. Owner's manual lists info for the C-1500 Crew Cab Short Box (2WD) 5300 engine and 6000 engine but nothing for the 4.8L engine which our VIN breakdown definitely says we have.

All right.....Here's the info I have on our TV after doing a VIN breakdown research on it. Unfortunately, it differs a little from what we originally thought.

TV: 2007 GMC Sierra 1500 SL Classic
Crew Cab 4 door..we thought standard box but googling indicates that crew cab was a short box and only the 1500HD offered a standard box (sad that we don't even know what we own)
4.8L engine(Bummer)....V8...SFI (can anyone tell me what SFI means?)
Axle Ratio (According to owner's manual)-Either 3.23 or 3.73-Looked in glove compartment and says GU5-I'm guessing that's the 3.23 axle ratio (addtl research I did)
1/2 ton pickup
Title application receipt says:
Factory tow package included

Since our truck isn't listed in owner's manual, been doing alot of googling and not having much luck. I did find a dealer selling what sounds to be very similar...2007 GMC Sierra Classic 1500 SL crew cab 4.8 engine so all this matches mine so I'm going with what they have listed so here it goes

After hours of research, here's what I found on this website-A dealership selling what seems like our truck. I sure hope that's our truck or else I'm back to the drawing board: http://www.cars.com/gmc/sierra-1500/...=USB70GMT246A0

285 HP
Curb weight: 5284 lbs
Engine torque: 295 lb.-ft. @ 4,000RPM
Curb weight 4987 (of course that's for this vehicle that they're selling)
6,900 lbs. GVWR
3,650 lbs. Front GAWR
4,000 lbs. Rear GAWR
1,913 lbs. Payload
3,650 lbs. Front axle capacity
4,000 lbs. Rear axle capacity
Towing capacity 5700 lbs
11,000 lbs. GCWR (Does this sound right?)


Our registration receipt says: Empty weight: 4900 lbs.....
carrying capacity-1000 lbs so gross weight 5900 lbs tonnage: .50

Our manual also says that if towing above 5000 lbs trailer rating, the handling/trailering suspension is required....What does this mean? Or was that just an example. We do have a sway bar and weight distribution hitch that says 1000 lbs on it....This is wayyyy too many numbers for my brain to comprehend. I wish someone could just tell me, don't buy a trailer that has a GCWR more than ???? and you'll be fine or even give me a few factors to consider. I'm a pretty bright person and I'm pretty good in math, but gosh....I guess it can't be as simple as that.

That's all the information I have to offer....If there's somewhere else I can look, please advice. We are so new at this and it's so much to take in. Thanks again for all of your advice.

[Quahog]

SFI = Sequential Fuel Injection is what the acronym stands for but I don't know any more about it than that. Still, it gives you something to search on.

Something else you might try is contacting GM and see if they can direct you to a website or other info on your specific VIN.

[sguzman]

@Crabman - Your information was extremely helpful.

So, If I have the correct information on my truck, which I'm still not 100% confident since I didn't find it on a GMC website or on my vehicle, but, assuming it's correct.

11000-20% = 8800 GVWR so we should be ok with the 25BHS in that case, correct?

[Crabman]

Originally Posted by sguzman

@Crabman - Your information was extremely helpful.

So, If I have the correct information on my truck, which I'm still not 100% confident since I didn't find it on a GMC website or on my vehicle, but, assuming it's correct.

11000-20% = 8800 GCWR so we should be ok with the 25BHS in that case, correct?

No, the weights I referred to with the 80% rule was your vehicles tow rating, which according to your last post is 5700lbs. So you would take 80% of 5700 using this formula to determine how much your loaded and ready for camping trailer can weigh. The GCWR or Gross combined weight rating is the maximum weight that your truck combined with your loaded trailer can be. So truck plus trailer plus occupants and cargo could weigh no more then 11,000 lbs TOTAL.
All these figures suggest the 25BHS is too much trailer for the truck IMO.

[Crabman]

Quote from sguzman
."This is wayyyy too many numbers for my brain to comprehend. I wish someone could just tell me, don't buy a trailer that has a GCWR more than ???? and you'll be fine or even give me a few factors to consider. I'm a pretty bright person and I'm pretty good in math, but gosh....I guess it can't be as simple as that."




OK, I`ll try to simplify it with a number. Your tow rating is 5700 lbs, so your trailer, its contents, your passengers (with the exception of a GM allowance of 150 lbs for the driver), any cargo in the truck, any options you add to the truck, cannot surpass 5700lbs total for that particular vehicle you specified. With the 4.8 engine and 3.23 rear the tow rating is not very high like some other trucks equipped with larger engines and 3.73 rear axle ratios. I hope this helps to clarify.

[sguzman]

Thanks Crabman....That sounds horrible. I need to go back and look at the stats on the 26bh and the 28bhs although I do recall that the GCWR on both the 26bh and 28bhs were the same but that was at 7500. I'm wondering if we shouldn't even be pulling our 26bh or 28bhs, for that matter. Ugh! I need to go make dinner. Maybe my brain will be refreshed when I return. Thanks for the info. It's been enlightening, to say the least.

[Rustic Eagle]

Sguzman,

Excellent research on your TV, now we have factual information to work from. Crabman did an excellent job of sorting through all the numbers, so I hope I don't add any confusion to the discussion .

Just a couple clarifications:

* GM RPO Code of "GU5" = 3.23 Gear Ratio (http://www.angelfire.com/ny2/96transam/rpocodes.html).

* GCWR of 11,000lbs: As Crabman stated that is the "maximum combined weight" that your TV and TT can weigh. The 80% rule doesn't get applied to this number.

* Tow Rating: The "published" Tow Rating for your TV is 5,700lbs, but this rating is based on the "curb weight" of your TV. The combined weights of any TV options, TV passengers, and TV cargo must be subtracted from the "published" tow rating to get your "actual/real" tow rating (http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?t=3866).

* 80% Rule: This is a ballpark approach to sizing the maximum GVWR of a TT to a specific TV when only the published tow rating is known. By taking 20% from your 5,700lb tow rating leaves you with 4,560lbs, so by using this method you shouldn't purchase a TT with a GVWR that exceeds 4,560lbs.

Basically the 20% that was removed accounts for the combined weights (ball park) of the TV options, TV passengers, TV cargo.

* Payload of 1,913lbs: The combined weights of the TV options, TV passengers, TV cargo, and the loaded TT tongue weight can not exceed the payload weight.

* TT Tongue Weight: Please note that the loaded weight of any TT is subtracted from the payload/cargo capacity of any TV.

* The TT's loaded tongue weight is also part of the GVWR of the TV when in tow.

Limiting factors of your TV:

* 4.8L Engine/3.23 Gear Ratio (great for the highway, not ideal for towing)
* Limited Payload (as are most 1/2 tons)
* Actual Tow Rating (is what-it-is)

My recommendation:

Since you already have the TV, confirm your TV's loaded weight to make sure that you aren't loosing some towing capacity with the 80% approach. Take your loaded TV (passengers, full fuel, cargo) to a CAT scale and weigh it....,the 2nd forum link I provided above references this process.

Another approach at the CAT scale is subtract your gross CAT scale weight from your TV's GCWR of 11,000lbs, the remaining is the maximum you can tow.

I based my response on your posted findings. Although a moot point, I did find the following data on your configured TV reflecting some different weights (if this is your TV): http://www.cars.com/gmc/sierra-1500/...=USB70GMT179F0

I hope this helps a little.

Bob

[sguzman]

Thanks so much for your help. Spoke to hubby and we had already decided that the next step was to definitely take TV to cat scale this week and run the numbers this way. We do know that we don't load much on the trailer and may load only 3 bicycles on TV but we don't know the weight of the TV with the options, etc. We'll start from there. Instead of upgrading, we may need to be downgrading for safety purposes. I'll need to start a thread on recommendations should that happen. We really wanted something that was good quality, especially the flooring, and that was going to be around for many years. Having walking room would be a plus.

Regardless, I'm so glad I did this research and so very thankful for your assistance. Will post more once we get the CAT scale weight.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by sguzman

snip...... Will post more once we get the CAT scale weight.

Look forward to your CAT scale findings.

Bob