Upper Limit Tow Weight concerns

[hubertus08]

Need some info I am looking at a 2013 Jayco Whitehawk 27DSRL. Has a sticker weight of 5800 lbs. I tow with a 2006 Toyota Tundra tow cap 6900 lbs. I know I am at the upper limits of my cap considering the average load weight is prob around 500#. Any comments on this combination? Any comments on the Whitehawk brand? I am very torn between this one and a Dutchman/Kodiak 263RLS. I am really leaning toward the Jayco... any concerns

[Raugustin]

First of all, welcome to the forum...you'll get a lot of help here! Great trailer the White Hawk series, have a look at the link below it will give insight into this trailer that is not commonly found. As far as towing concerns, it is the available payload of the TV, after you add passengers fuel and supplies that is problematic for 1/2 tons. Most do not have enough GVWR to cover the addition of the recommended 10% - 15% of the GVW of the trailer. What I recommend that you do is load up your truck with your family and whatever else that you plan to have in the truck and take it to a CAT scale. Make sure that you have both axles on separate platforms and that will give you the weight of each axle. If you add the two axle weights together that will be your TV GVW. You subtract the measured GVW from the registered GVWR of the truck and you will have the available payload.
This will need to be equal to or greater than the tongue weight that you will apply to the truck. when selecting the trailer go by the actual weight on the yellow sticker in or near the door. On White Hawks this weight will be the weight of the trailer as it left the factory + the weight of full propane tanks. Take the weight and add between 800 and 1000 lbs (typical packing weight) to the yellow sticker weight and calculate 13% of this number as your tongue weight. Compare the tongue weight with the available payload to determine if the trailer is a match. This is usually the number where 1/2 tons fail but you must also satisfy your GAWR's (truck & trailer), GCVWR & GVWR of trailer. Clear as mud right, well it even gets more complicated when you start to equate the actions of the Weight Distributing Hitch (WDH), anyway hope this helps and your are making a smart move by checking here rather than with your RV and Truck dealerships.

http://i1.imagesrv.com/3/2475/docs/2475_1777.pdf

Originally Posted by hubertus08

Need some info I am looking at a 2013 Jayco Whitehawk 27DSRL. Has a sticker weight of 5800 lbs. I tow with a 2006 Toyota Tundra tow cap 6900 lbs. I know I am at the upper limits of my cap considering the average load weight is prob around 500#. Any comments on this combination? Any comments on the Whitehawk brand? I am very torn between this one and a Dutchman/Kodiak 263RLS. I am really leaning toward the Jayco... any concerns

[hubertus08]

Thanks, all these numbers send my head spinning. But, I am glad I found this forum. Can't trust the dealer, he just wants to sell a unit.

2006 Toyota Tundra
with Tow Pkg
CAT Weight with 2 passengers and two small dogs... 5,880 lbs

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by hubertus08

snip...... Any comments on this combination? ....snip

I agree with member "Raugustin's" recommendation that you would benefit greatly by taking your present TV to a CAT scale and weigh it under loaded conditions (simulated going camping), thus reducing weight limit assumptions. This information will confirm the available remaining payload capacity for the TT's loaded tongue weight (or any other TV cargo not accounted for at the CAT scale).

Please note that the Tundra's published tow rating of 6,900lbs is not representative of the actual tow rating, another good reason to visit a CAT scale: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...uot-Tow-Rating

The White Hawk 27DRLS:
UVW: 5,400lbs
Ship Weight: 5,800lbs (yellow sticker)
GVWR: 7,500lbs

The 5,800lbs doesn't include the combined weights of battery, WDH, or any dealer options....., for estimation purposes I would add 125lbs. Your target TT cargo weight of 500lbs is conservative (no fluids): 5,800lbs + 125lbs + 500lbs = 6,425lbs estimated loaded TT weight.

The TT's "loaded" tongue weight is supported by the TV, so this weight has to be subtracted from the TV's specified payload capacity. Based on an assumed TT loaded weight of 6,425lbs @ 13% = 835lb loaded TT tongue weight.

Based on the assumptions above and your personal loading habits it is very possible that you could exceed your "actual" tow rating and/or your TV's GVWR. IMO a CAT scale visit with your TV would be extremely helpful in making a confident TT pourchase, no matter which brand/model.

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by hubertus08

Thanks, all these numbers send my head spinning....snip

I agree, a lot of information to digest, but take your time going through it and I'm sure you will see how it all ties together.

The responsibility falls into our (the customer) hands to consider the possible loaded conditions, the dealer tends to reference the published data (unloaded).

If you would like any clarification of the information that Ron or I posted, please feel free to ask. The 13% (of the loaded TT weight) I utilized is the average that RV and WDH manufactures recommend for a loaded tongue weight (10% to 15%).

Going into the RV dealership with an understanding on how your TV weight limits work will insure that you make a TT purchase that meets your towing expectations.

Bob

On edit: Do you know your TV's GVWR? If the CAT scale weight of your TV is 5,880lbs, subtract that weight from your TV's stated GVWR..., the remaining weight is for TT tongue weight and/or any other cargo going into the TV.

[Rustic Eagle]

hubertus08,

Your latest information:

"Actual weight of Whitehawk with options as on the sticker by the door of unit: 5,817 lbs
According to my TV manual (2006 Toyota Tundra, 4.7 V8, Double cab, w/Tow package, 4x4 is 6,700.
Not to exceed 12,600 combined weight. Had my TV weighed at a CAT scale: 5, 820 lbs with 2 passengers"

Please note that on your TV's driver's side door there is sticker that will have the GVWR of your Tundra.

(Tundra GVWR) - (CAT 5,820lbs) = weight remaining for loaded TT tongue and/or added cargo

I assume CAT scale was with full tank of fuel.

Hope this helps.

Bob

Reference information thread: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthrea...d=1#post117009

[hubertus08]

The TT tongue weight of 13% of TT + cargo (835 lbs) is that the tongue weight I need to go by or is that offset by the WDH? Either way, I am probably out of my weight limitations, be it Tow Cap or Tongue Wt. Thanks for the info. I sure am glad I stumbled across this forum, or I may have purchased this trailer with no thanks to the dealer. They even offered me the option to take the TT out with my truck to see how easily it would haul. But, later I would have hit some of those hills out east and would have been sorry. Thanks again. Chris N

[Raugustin]

Hi Hubertus,

If you use a WDH, the tongue weight can only be measured at the CAT scale because the WDH will transfer some of the payload back to the TT's axles. I can't really tell you how much it will transfer because I haven't measured it....I have seen CAT scale results that indicate as much as 25% of the tongue weight can be shifted to the TT. My RAM Manual only indicates having a minimum of 10% tongue weight on the hitch. I emailed jayco regarding an advertisement in their brochure that says the White Hawk's wide tracker axles reduces tongue weight. They also indicated a minimum of 10% be applied to the hitch. In my case, I am theoretically over my GVWR of my RAM 1500 Laramie by 200 lbs. I purchased a Sherline scale to measure my tongue weight so I can load the trailer with a 11% tongue weight and the apply the WDH and head to the CAT scale to dial everything in. My White Hawk 30DSRE has a yellow sticker of 6400 lbs, I figure we should be around 7200 lbs loaded which relates to 800 lb tongue weight, if a calculate 25% of this weight going to the TT axles then I could be dedad on with my 600 lb available payload. I'm not sure what your available payload is but you may very well be able to tow the White Hawk safely, if you are under or equall to all the limits. I have already made the purchase of the 30 DSRE and am trying to make the numbers work even though I don't expect that I will have an issue towing this trailer...you on the other hand have some options available to you. Good luck with you decisions.
Ron

Originally Posted by hubertus08

The TT tongue weight of 13% of TT + cargo (835 lbs) is that the tongue weight I need to go by or is that offset by the WDH? Either way, I am probably out of my weight limitations, be it Tow Cap or Tongue Wt. Thanks for the info. I sure am glad I stumbled across this forum, or I may have purchased this trailer with no thanks to the dealer. They even offered me the option to take the TT out with my truck to see how easily it would haul. But, later I would have hit some of those hills out east and would have been sorry. Thanks again. Chris N

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by hubertus08

The TT tongue weight of 13% of TT + cargo (835 lbs) is that the tongue weight I need to go by or is that offset by the WDH?.... snip

Chris,

The 835lb tongue weight on the hitch ball is not offset by the WDH, so based on the weight assumptions in my earlier post the 835lbs is a good value to use.

The WDH doesn't reduce the tongue weight placed on the hitch ball, the WDH removes weight (value unknown) placed over the TV's rear axle then distributes it to the TV's front axle and to the TT axles. The WDH does however have a "supporting" function with the weight placed on the hitch ball, and also supports a percentage of the cargo (in the TV) weight placed to the rear of the TV's rear axle. Another way to look at it: The the actual tongue weight placed on the TV's hitch ball doesn't change after the WDH is engaged...., what changes is the weight placed over the TV's rear axle do to the effect of the TT's tongue weight on the hitch ball.

It should be noted that the weight distributed off the TV's rear axle by the WDH isn't necessarily equal pound-to-pound of the initial tongue weight. There are a number of conditions that influence the amount of weight being distributed ((TV manufacture's WDH front suspension requirements (ie; 100% or 50% return), stiffness of frame/suspension, WDH adjustment, OEM receiver, etc.))

As mentioned, the WDH does distribute some weight back to the TT axles, but the only way to confirm the actual amount of weight is a visit to the CAT scale "after the fact".

One can conclude that a properly sized/adjusted WDH will distribute some minor weight away from the TV and back to the TT, but it's difficult to even guess how much.

ON EDIT: Did you find your TV's GVWR?

Bob

[Raugustin]

Hi Bob,

You are correct, the tongue weight remains the same, the actual TV's GVW can only be determined, if using a WDH, by adding the weight on each axle of the TV by using a CAT scale. The WDH shifts some of the payload, inclusive of tongue weight, to the TV's front axle and the TT's axles. So calculating your TV's GVW by simply adding the tongue weight to the known or measured GVW of TV will not be accurate.
Ron

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Chris,

The 835lb tongue weight on the hitch ball is not offset by the WDH, so based on the weight assumptions in my earlier post the 835lbs is a good value to use.

The WDH doesn't reduce the tongue weight placed on the hitch ball, the WDH removes weight (value unknown) placed over the TV's rear axle then distributes it to the TV's front axle and to the TT axles. The WDH does however have a "supporting" function with the weight placed on the hitch ball, and also supports a percentage of the cargo (in the TV) weight placed to the rear of the TV's rear axle. Another way to look at it: The the actual tongue weight placed on the TV's hitch ball doesn't change after the WDH is engaged...., what changes is the weight placed over the TV's rear axle do to the effect of the TT's tongue weight on the hitch ball.

It should be noted that the weight distributed off the TV's rear axle by the WDH isn't necessarily equal pound-to-pound of the initial tongue weight. There are a number of conditions that influence the amount of weight being distributed ((TV manufacture's WDH front suspension requirements (ie; 100% or 50% return), stiffness of frame/suspension, WDH adjustment, OEM receiver, etc.))

As mentioned, the WDH does distribute some weight back to the TT axles, but the only way to confirm the actual amount of weight is a visit to the CAT scale "after the fact".

One can conclude that a properly sized/adjusted WDH will distribute some minor weight away from the TV and back to the TT, but it's difficult to even guess how much.

ON EDIT: Did you find your TV's GVWR?

Bob

[hubertus08]

The GVWR is 6,600 according to the sticker on the door, the manual states the total weight of the TV & TT should be no more than 12, 600 TW cap 700lbs Thanks for all the info. CN

[Rustic Eagle]

Again, thanks for the follow-up..., knowing the GVWR is very helpful when working with CAT scale data:

(Tundra GVWR of 6,600lbs) - (CAT loaded TV of 5,820lbs) = 780lbs weight remaining for loaded TT tongue weight and/or added cargo weight

Bob