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Old 02-14-2018, 09:43 AM   #1
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Weight distribution hitch and SES kits

I am trying to get to the bottom of whether it is a good idea to add Timbrens or SumoSprings to my TV in conjunction with my weight distribution hitch. I know they are recommended for people pulling 5th wheels, but I can't find any reputable feedback on whether they recommend with a travel trailer with a good weight distribution hitch. It seems to me that the 2 would not pair well together from what I have read, but I was hoping someone on here may be more educated. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:54 AM   #2
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My understanding is that WDH is to put weight back to front axle and level the TV and trailer. Adding any thing to the suspension is to reduce or eliminate sag. My buddy F250 have a sticker on his hitch receiver that stated the Truck can handle tongue weight of 2100# with or without WDH. So the question is do you have 3" or more sag in the rear when trailer attached? Does the front of your truck go up by more than 2"? Usually pickup truck are not level without weight in the back, sometime having 1000# in the back just makes the truck level.
From an after market point of view, adding anything after market is a good idea, they will profit from it.
from the vehicle manufacture point of view, never add anything not from manufacture.
If it is not broken, don't need fixing.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:33 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by jp_brown View Post
I am trying to get to the bottom of whether it is a good idea to add Timbrens or SumoSprings to my TV in conjunction with my weight distribution hitch. I know they are recommended for people pulling 5th wheels, but I can't find any reputable feedback on whether they recommend with a travel trailer with a good weight distribution hitch. It seems to me that the 2 would not pair well together from what I have read, but I was hoping someone on here may be more educated. Any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
If the TV payload is rated for the tongue weight and other things you carry, should not be needed, but if you do just for extra peace of mind, set up the WDH after the installation.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by SOMBATFAMILY View Post
My understanding is that WDH is to put weight back to front axle and level the TV and trailer. Adding any thing to the suspension is to reduce or eliminate sag. My buddy F250 have a sticker on his hitch receiver that stated the Truck can handle tongue weight of 2100# with or without WDH. So the question is do you have 3" or more sag in the rear when trailer attached? Does the front of your truck go up by more than 2"? Usually pickup truck are not level without weight in the back, sometime having 1000# in the back just makes the truck level.
From an after market point of view, adding anything after market is a good idea, they will profit from it.
from the vehicle manufacture point of view, never add anything not from manufacture.
If it is not broken, don't need fixing.
This is a pretty good explanation. Air bags/helper spring on the truck don't do the same thing as a WDH. They don't solve the same problem. They DO interact however.

What I would do first of all is take your rig to the nearest CAT scale and find out your axle weight without trailer, with trailer and with trailer and WDH. Then you can make a more informed decision about additional equipment.

For me, if the axle weights at the CAT scale looks good, and the combination tows good, there's no need to for any additional equipment. If it doesn't tow good, changing rear suspension might not help much anyway, you'll probably have to move some weight around or adjust your WDH anyway.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:21 PM   #5
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In 2011, Ford changed their rear leaf spring pack on the F-250 to provide a softer ride. This spring pack is notorious for allowing sag. As you already know, I towed our Eagle for 5 years with Timbrens/WDH. It was easy for me to get the camper level with just the hitch but the rear end never felt firm. It towed OK before the Timbrens but the biggest problem I had was the "bounce" when hitting a depression in the road. Above posters aren't considering this action. For me, the Timbrens virtually eliminated this action and made for a better towing experience for me. Of course our trailer has 1400lbs on the tongue and I don't believe your trailer will be anything close to that. The CAT scale is a great idea but only real time towing your trailer will provide you with the knowledge of your personal feeling about how comfortable you are with your current setup. I have scoured the Timbren/SumoSpring websites looking for info about their product used with a WDH and like you, came up empty. In April, I'm going to tow our trailer up to Brown County State park with the new 2017 F-250 without Timbrens. State road 46 has a few nice dips on the way and if it bounces like the old truck I will not hesitate to order these. https://www.etrailer.com/Vehicle-Sus...TFR250SDJ.html If you scroll down to the reviews you'll see many people towing campers with WDH and the Timbrens. JP, I'm not trying to sell you my old Timbrens, I can only give you the experiences I've had with them. If you dig up the other thread, I answered some of the questions you asked.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:43 AM   #6
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I very much appreciate your feedback TC. I plan to go to the cat scales this weekend and taking the appropriate measurements to have the info I need to make a better informed decision. Thank you all for your help!
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Old 02-16-2018, 04:11 PM   #7
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I have timbrens for my F150 & use Reese duel cam WD hitch for my 6000lbs (give or take 100 lbs) of T.T. The only thing I've noticed is an improvement in decreasing the "porpoising" affect when hitting those cement Hwy road seams. The Timbrens are in contact with the rear axle when fully loaded. I'm happy I put them in. Not sure if sway improved as I had re-adjusted the WD hitch for maximum efficiency. I still get the push & pull a little when 18 wheelers pass me by at speeds of about 10mph faster than me, but not a big deal. My TT is 30 ft. long bumper to hitch ball.
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Old 02-17-2018, 06:13 PM   #8
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Sumo's are a great product. I use them. They come in various ratings, and even varieties for coil springs and even travel trailer axles. Like having air bags without the hassles.

They are a great compliment a good WDH, and they smooth the ride considerably. Timbrens tend to be more harsh. Sumo's are cellular foam type of product that increases resistance as it is collapsed and reach full resistance at 50% compression. Mine rest right on the axles when unloaded, and go to work right when any load is put on the hitch or in the box. Would have it no other way after using Sumo's for about 2 years now.

A good WDH Is essential, the Sumo's just compliment it. Kind of a one-two punch that is effective and provides all one needs to get the job done.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:17 PM   #9
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Got a chance to hit the scales today, here are the results:

Tow Vehicle (with 4 occupants-myself & my boys + hitch):

Front Axle 5100
Rear Axle 3460
GVW 8560
GVWR 9900
GCWR 23500
Remaining Payload - 1340

Full Rig w/out WDH:

Front Axle 4600 (-500)
Rear Axle 5140 (+1680)
Trailer Axle 8340
GVW 9740 (+1180)
GCW 18080
Remaining Payload - 160

Full Rig (w/occupants) & WDH:

Front Axle 4820 (-280) (+220 w/ WDH)
Rear Axle 4880 (+1420) (-260 w/ WDH)
Trailer Axle 8420 (+80 w/ WDH)
GVW 9700 (+1140) (-40 w/ WDH)
GCW 18120 (+40 ??, I had the WDH bars in the trailer, how did I gain 40 lbs)
Remaining Payload - 200

The manufacturer stated tongue weight for my trailer was advertised as 865. I realize that was factory dry weight, but that is a far cry from the 1140ish I am showing in reality. Being that my WDH only transferred 80 lbs to the trailer axles when hooked up, should I look at adjusting my WDH? Adding my wife and dog will eat up that remaining 200 lbs and the trailer isn't even loaded up yet. I have most of my intended camper stuff already in the front storage locker, but obviously when we go out we will have food, beverages and more gear with us. I will obviously look to load as much stuff to the rear of the camper as I can, but I don't want to murder my GVWR. Any thoughts on how I can remedy this situation short of trading my recently acquired F250 for an F350 would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:22 PM   #10
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Already figured out the 40 lbs, the spring bars were actually in the back of my truck when I weighed the first time without the spring bars installed. I then installed them on the hitch for my second weight and then left them with the trailer for my third weight of the truck and occupants only. That is why that 40 lbs got shuffled around. Still not sure why the GCW for the whole rig with and without the spring bars installed wouldn't match though.
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:17 PM   #11
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Those truck scales vary by 20 or 40 pounds each visit anyway that can happen. I'd be looking to transfer more weight to your steering axle by adjusting your hitch some more.

You may end up "murdering" your GVR either way, but it'll handle better with more weight on the front axle.

How does it pull right now on the highway? Any spooky steering, sway or buffeting?
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Old 02-19-2018, 03:44 PM   #12
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I drove it to the scales without the wdh hooked up, that was an unpleasant experience. With the spring bars installed though, the drive home was a completely different t experience. I had the 14k EAZ Lift wdh with sway control hitch installed by camping world when I bought the trailer. I do not have experience with setting up the hitch but I am willing to learn. It pulls the trailer fine with the hitch all setup, so not sure if I am just being paranoid or if I should tweak it.
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Old 02-19-2018, 08:05 PM   #13
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Some people will keep tweaking it, some people will leave it alone since it seems to tow well. I'm no expert, but I have spent a lot of time messing with mine. If you do tweak it, you'll want more weight put onto the steering axle. That's the biggest thing you can do to improve towing stability and reduce the feeling of being pushed by your trailer.
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Old 02-24-2018, 07:56 AM   #14
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I would get more weight to the front end. Easiest way is to measure the fender height empty and hitched up. This will get you real close. After that, I wouldn't worry about being over the GVWR. You are well under the GCWR. What are your axle ratings? You probable have lots of room on the rear axle.

Just for reference, your truck with the 6.2 gasser engine will have over 3,000# of CC. The diesel eats 1,000# of that and the frame, axles, springs etc are the same between them.
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Old 02-24-2018, 09:09 AM   #15
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The rear axle rating is 6100 lbs so yes I am way under there as well. I will try readjusting my wdh to see if I can get more weight to the front, that should move more to the trailer at the same time shouldn’t it? Currently I calculated I am at 11.9% on my hitch weight so I don’t think I can tweak it too much without having to start being concerned with sway. I will measure my front end rise to see where I am at.
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Old 02-24-2018, 10:54 AM   #16
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You really want the trailer to have a slightly nose down position when hitched. This will help with sway, unless your front end is sticking up in the air. Tweaking a WDH can be difficult but sometimes it's just about hitch head position. When I tweaked mine I moved the hitch head [ball] back a few degrees [towards trailer] and was able to return front end to within 1/4 inch of original height and still maintain a nose down posture. Of course, I'm unfamiliar with your particular WDH and it's adjustments.
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Old 02-24-2018, 11:24 AM   #17
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That is what I am having difficulty trying to figure out where to start tweaking my wdh. I have watched and read the various links here, on rv.net, and etrailer on how to setup a wdh, but what none of hers tell me is what to adjust to address particular problems like how to move more weight to the front axle or trailer axle. Do I adjust my head height or do I adjust my hitch angle first? Nothing I have seen so far tells you what the intended adjustment of each piece should affect. I have the EAZ lift 14k with round sway bars and a sway control arm. I know the sway control is irrelevant to the weight transference properties. My bars are level in their current position at the max chain length so I am not sure if I can adjust my hitch head angle any more rearward, it looks pretty vertical presently though.

When it stops raining tomorrow I am going to get my trailer out on level ground and take my truck measurements hitched and unhitched to check them and go from there.
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:40 AM   #18
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So I finally pulled the trigger on ripping out the Firestone Ride Rite air bags on my truck last weekend. That process was a complete pain in the ass. The air bags had been non functioning for so long that the brackets were all bent and rusted. Half of the bolt heads snapped off because the bolts were so rusted. what I thought would take me an hour Sunday turned into 6. Needless to say my back and neck were so sore from laying under my truck all day that I am just feeling normal again today. Unfortunately the last 2 bolts had to be cut out with a torch at my work shop to free the frame brackets they mounted to.

Anyhow I went with the 1500 lb Sumo Springs as a replacement, which were super easy to install. 6 hours to remove the old system, 20 mins to install the new springs. I just hope the rather small mounting bolt is beefy enough to hold the springs in place in the long haul. The empty ride already feels more controlled compared to the truck with the non functional air bags that were still very stiff and the brief time I drove the truck with nothing installed. The rear end was definitely more forgiving without the springs installed, but it felt a little soft. The real test comes tomorrow when we haul our TT 225 miles out for our first outing of the year. Weather isn't really cooperating here in the Midwest, but dammit we are going out anyhow! I have been tinkering with the trailer for 2 months now, we are going out regardless. Wish me safe travels!
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Old 03-21-2018, 08:45 AM   #19
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So I finally pulled the trigger on ripping out the Firestone Ride Rite air bags on my truck last weekend. That process was a complete pain in the ass. The air bags had been non functioning for so long that the brackets were all bent and rusted. Half of the bolt heads snapped off because the bolts were so rusted. what I thought would take me an hour Sunday turned into 6. Needless to say my back and neck were so sore from laying under my truck all day that I am just feeling normal again today. Unfortunately the last 2 bolts had to be cut out with a torch at my work shop to free the frame brackets they mounted to.

Anyhow I went with the 1500 lb Sumo Springs as a replacement, which were super easy to install. 6 hours to remove the old system, 20 mins to install the new springs. I just hope the rather small mounting bolt is beefy enough to hold the springs in place in the long haul. The empty ride already feels more controlled compared to the truck with the non functional air bags that were still very stiff and the brief time I drove the truck with nothing installed. The rear end was definitely more forgiving without the springs installed, but it felt a little soft. The real test comes tomorrow when we haul our TT 225 miles out for our first outing of the year. Weather isn't really cooperating here in the Midwest, but dammit we are going out anyhow! I have been tinkering with the trailer for 2 months now, we are going out regardless. Wish me safe travels!
Keep us posted. I have had the Sumos on my pickup for about 2 years. They are in as good of shape as new and they have done a stellar job.
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:19 AM   #20
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First trip out was a success! The sumos definitely made the ride feel stable and controlled. I did have to stop twice on the trip to adjust my WDH as the Sumos changed the ride dynamics of the vehicle when hooked up. Much less sag meant that I was 4" nose high on the trailer when rehooked. I then overcompensated and went too low with my hitch height and was 2" nose down. After the second adjustment, I was 3/4" nose down and the truck looked just below level in the rear. The rest of the trip to and from Eastern Kentucky was a pleasure compared to how the trip started out.

I need to reweigh my setup to confirm numbers but it looked right and pulled much more confidently so I think I have to be in a pretty good spot. Now if this weather would get it together we are looking forward to many more trips in the future! Happy Camping
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