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Old 04-27-2016, 11:17 PM   #21
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Thanks.

The Equal-i-zer hitch is rated up to 10,000 I think, but the GVWR on the Jayco is only 6765. I won't be especially heavy in the TT. I think it usually comes in at about 6000

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Originally Posted by oldmanAZ View Post
In short, for #1) follow the Equal-i-zer instructions and measure the changes in height of your truck to know when the tension on the weight bars has transferred enough weight to bring the front end down.
I hope that helps a bit.
I was thinking that the latest instructions basically said "distribute enough weight that the front end doesn't RISE" and that squat was not a problem as long as the front stays normal. Is that not true? I HAD to push the front down with my F150 to handle the respective GAWR.
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Old 04-28-2016, 06:07 AM   #22
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Bandman,

Yes, you should still use a wdh. One of the reasons, even if your new trucks suspension can handle the tw, it is possible the trucks hitch is only rated for 500 or 600lbs without the use of a wdh. TW higher than that requires a wdh. With a 350, you may need to go to the scales to get a proper wdh set up. With the stiff suspension, and lighter tt, it may be difficult to adjust the hitch properly only by measuring. My signature links have a ton of wdh info, including how to properly weigh at a CAT Scale.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Dustdevil View Post
The WDH effectively eliminates the need for air bags, as it naturally distributes the tongue weight. If you have too much load for your WDH, then you need to re-evaluate how you are loading your trailer. A 10,000 lb trailer should have no more than 1000 lbs of tongue weight. F350 suspension should easily handle that without air bags. WDH is essential, however.
Devil,

The "no more than 10% tw", are you referring to the "Gross" tw, the actual tw you would get if a scale was placed under the coupler? Or the "Net", once the wd bars are hooked up and adjusted properly?

I ask because if you are referring to the "Gross" tw, that is not correct. A tt generally needs between 12-15% tw for a safe, stable tow. If you get a tw to low you can, and probably will have sway.

If referring to the "Net" tw once a tt is hooked up and the wd bars are hooked up, then there is not a set percentage. As long as the wdh (with the proper size wd bars) is adjusted properly per the tv manufactures specs, the "Net" tw will be what it is.

Open trailers are a completely different animal in regards to tw. They generally are happy with about a 10%tw for a safe, stable tow.
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Old 04-28-2016, 09:35 AM   #23
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I just upgraded my truck to a 2011 F350 diesel from a 2010 Silverado 1500. Not that I need that much truck for our 22BH, but we do plan to upgrade to a fifth wheel soon. I just hooked up our trailer last weekend for the first time to the new truck. I did have to drop the hitch by 5" because of the significant height difference of the new truck (has the camper package that includes 3" blocks on the back). I also continued to use the wdh despite no sagging on the truck. I didn't tighten as much as I did with the 1500, but just enough to stabilize. It traveled well down the highway and I have no complaints. I was worried the stiff suspension was going to bounce the trailer around on the concrete highway, but it actually rode well.
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Old 04-28-2016, 10:30 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by tmsbandman View Post
snip...... I was thinking that the latest instructions basically said "distribute enough weight that the front end doesn't RISE" and that squat was not a problem as long as the front stays normal. Is that not true?.......snip
tmsbandman,

Yes, a true statement......, the design function of a WDH is to "return" the same weight back to the TV's front suspension that was removed do to the "effect" of the TT's tongue weight being placed on the TV's hitch ball.

Once a WDH is properly adjusted it's common to experience a 1" - 2" squat at the TV's rear fender height and in most cases doesn't necessitate the incorporation of a rear suspension lift device (air bags, etc.).

Bob
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Old 04-28-2016, 05:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmsbandman View Post
Thanks.

The Equal-i-zer hitch is rated up to 10,000 I think, but the GVWR on the Jayco is only 6765. I won't be especially heavy in the TT. I think it usually comes in at about 6000



I was thinking that the latest instructions basically said "distribute enough weight that the front end doesn't RISE" and that squat was not a problem as long as the front stays normal. Is that not true? I HAD to push the front down with my F150 to handle the respective GAWR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle View Post
tmsbandman,

Yes, a true statement......, the design function of a WDH is to "return" the same weight back to the TV's front suspension that was removed do to the "effect" of the TT's tongue weight being placed on the TV's hitch ball.

Once a WDH is properly adjusted it's common to experience a 1" - 2" squat at the TV's rear fender height and in most cases doesn't necessitate the incorporation of a rear suspension lift device (air bags, etc.).

Bob
BUT.. Some tv manufactures are now suggesting/recommending to only return 50%, or even 25% of the lost weight back to the front axle. It seems to have changed somewhat over the last few years. And the wdh manufactures seem to refer to the tv manual as well.

It does seem to be "across the board" to return no more than the lost weight now though. Heck, I remember when "equal squat" was the norm for the front and rear... No more of those days I guess.

Will there ever be a set standard to go by? Lol
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WDH SET UP. HOW A WDH WORKS. CAT SCALE HOW TO.
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Old 04-29-2016, 10:05 AM   #26
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tmsbandman,

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmsbandman View Post
snip..... I HAD to push the front down with my F150 to handle the respective GAWR.
Going from your 2004 half ton to a 1997 one ton suspension and hitching to the same TT can be an eye-opener on how different suspensions react to the effect of the same loaded tongue weight.

Bob
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Old 04-29-2016, 10:42 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by need-a-vacation View Post
BUT.. Some tv manufactures are now suggesting/recommending to only return 50%, or even 25% of the lost weight back to the front axle. It seems to have changed somewhat over the last few years. And the wdh manufactures seem to refer to the tv manual as well.

It does seem to be "across the board" to return no more than the lost weight now though. Heck, I remember when "equal squat" was the norm for the front and rear... No more of those days I guess.

Will there ever be a set standard to go by? Lol
I think the reason for changing from "equal squat" is because the pick up truck manufacturers have changed rear suspension designs. They now make the top portion of the rear suspension very soft to provide a softer ride for all the daily driver pick ups out there. The true load carrying part of the rear suspension doesn't come into play until the rear squats a couple of inches.

It still seems reasonable to return front axle loading to the unhitched weight or height without regard for the amount of "rear squat".
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Old 05-02-2016, 08:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by need-a-vacation View Post
Bandman,

Yes, you should still use a wdh. One of the reasons, even if your new trucks suspension can handle the tw, it is possible the trucks hitch is only rated for 500 or 600lbs without the use of a wdh. TW higher than that requires a wdh. With a 350, you may need to go to the scales to get a proper wdh set up. With the stiff suspension, and lighter tt, it may be difficult to adjust the hitch properly only by measuring. My signature links have a ton of wdh info, including how to properly weigh at a CAT Scale.

Good luck!



Devil,

The "no more than 10% tw", are you referring to the "Gross" tw, the actual tw you would get if a scale was placed under the coupler? Or the "Net", once the wd bars are hooked up and adjusted properly?

I ask because if you are referring to the "Gross" tw, that is not correct. A tt generally needs between 12-15% tw for a safe, stable tow. If you get a tw to low you can, and probably will have sway.

If referring to the "Net" tw once a tt is hooked up and the wd bars are hooked up, then there is not a set percentage. As long as the wdh (with the proper size wd bars) is adjusted properly per the tv manufactures specs, the "Net" tw will be what it is.

Open trailers are a completely different animal in regards to tw. They generally are happy with about a 10%tw for a safe, stable tow.
Yeah, I've always heard that 10% to 15% is the right range. My toy hauler had right about 800 lbs unloaded at 6400 total dead weight, and about 1100 lbs when fully loaded to around 10000 dead weight. Both figures are dead tongue weight compared to the total trailer weight, with no sway control involved yet. Then the sway control takes some of that weight and redistributes it to the front axle of the tow vehicle, if adjusted properly. Taking away too much of the tongue weight with the load distributing hitch can tend to un-weight the rear wheels of the tow vehicle, which is not recommended at all. That's why proper adjustment is important, as is a starting point in the right range. The big problem with too light a tongue weight is side sway. The idea is for the center of gravity to be just ahead of the axles for stable towing.
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