WFCO or Progressive Dynamics for lithium?

[adsfhjq]

I'm planning to replace the converter in my 154BH from the WFCO 8735P to support lithium. So, the question is do I swap it out for the AD version from WFCO, or change it to a unit from Progressive Dynamics?

My options appear to be:

- WFCO 8735-AD
- PD4135KW2BV

I read here (https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...ery-99180.html) that the WFCO AD unit may need a software upgrade at the factory, which is a huge hassle since I'm not in the USA. And I read here (https://www.progressivedyn.com/pd4100-series/) that only units after Jan. 2021 have the lithium switch. So either product has those gotchas.


I also see the WFCO WF-8735-PB-LIS, which has a physical switch for lithium, probably because of poor feedback on the AD model.


Opinions?

[DonBr]

Can't tell you what to get, but a note that the LIS was an in-between model prior to the AD. Probably very few made, and likely unobtainum. Too bad.

[ttavasc]

My preference would be for the Progressive Dynamics unit. I've never been happy with the performance of the WFCO units and swapping out for a Progressive Dynamics converter/charger was one of the first things I did when we upgraded to our current ORV back in 2019. As I am still running 6v GC2 batteries the charge wizard feature is very handy. Since you are looking at switching to lithium that won't come in to play. I also like the ability to replace just the converter/charger on the Progressive units.

[DonBr]

Just to point out what I did: Turned the WFCO converter off permanently, and install a good Victron 30A converter. Similar cost, but highly configurable via Bluetooth.

[RogerR]

I pulled my fuse and just let my 200 watts of Renogy solar and Renogy 30 amp MPPT do the job. Even charges me up when I am driving with no DC-DC charger from car. And of course, camping anywhere off grid.

[DonBr]

Yeah, I wasn't going to get into solar, so I mentioned my Victron charger. In point of fact, I haven't needed it, but it is there if I ever park in a really dark place

I have 380W solar and 200AH lithium, with a 40A MPPT.

[RogerR]

As a backup your lead acid rated charger should put 70 to 80% of a full charge with no harm to the battery per Renogy. Also, per Renogy help desk it won't harm the battery or MPPT either. It seems like the Wifco will boost it to as much as it can unless solar is making a higher voltage than solar will either charge it or finish charging it to 100%.

[ARoamer]

My older non LI PD converter has a boost button, it forces the converter to output 14.4v for a few hours. My solar charges my LI batteries, I rarely use my converter, it's breaker is allways off.
Per PD customer support-->
"To get to boost mode stage, you hold the wizard button down for a few seconds until the light turns solid green. The converter is now in boost mode and will put out 14.4 volts for approx 4 hours after which, the output goes back to the normal charge rate of 13.6 volts DC.
Every time you want to charge the lithium batteries, you must press the button to force the converter into boost mode.
This should give you enough time to fully charge your lithium batteries."

[adsfhjq]

DonBr, I don't suppose you have instructions on how you disabled the WFCO converter and installed the Victron? Sounds like an interesting option. I have 200W solar, but often I camp where there is a lot of trees. I want to be able to top up my battery via the generator connected to the 30a trailer connection, so I need a decent converter.

[DonBr]

Disabling the WFCO converter is via the simple task of turning its breaker off. Nothing else is on that particular breaker. I put the Victron down by the water heater, which is also where the "inverter ready" circuit is. However, I had already hooked up all of the standard sockets to an inverter, so plugging the Victron in there would have produced a loop.

What I did was to plug it in with the water heater itself. That's a separate 15A circuit, which would be pushing the limit if the charger was putting out a full 30A and the heater was on; probably wouldn't be bad, but... So I'm running my Victron at 15A (and not really using it at all).

My lithiums are all in the passthrough, so the MPPT and Victron are only about 3 feet of wire run from them.

[Forester2]

Bought the WFCO; wished I bought the Progressive.

[TomC_AZ]

I am one of the lucky ones who has the "unobtainum". I can say that the WFCO with the LI switch works fantastic! Although I do now have a spare 8ga wire coming from the battery as my old power center was one of the "special" ones with the 8 wires.

I have unfortunately not heard great things about the AD models.

As for PD ones, as I understand it, it is not a 100% simple swap out as they make it sound. From reviews of those who have swapped the 8735 out the compatible PD model sounds like it is smaller i.e. not fitting the existing hole completely. Can anyone who has done this conversion confirm this along with the model you went with? Also any other compatibility or other issues seen when swapping?

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by TomC_AZ

I am one of the lucky ones who has the "unobtainum". I can say that the WFCO with the LI switch works fantastic! Although I do now have a spare 8ga wire coming from the battery as my old power center was one of the "special" ones with the 8 wires.

I have unfortunately not heard great things about the AD models.

As for PD ones, as I understand it, it is not a 100% simple swap out as they make it sound. From reviews of those who have swapped the 8735 out the compatible PD model sounds like it is smaller i.e. not fitting the existing hole completely. Can anyone who has done this conversion confirm this along with the model you went with? Also any other compatibility or other issues seen when swapping?

I went from the WFCO 8735 to the PD4135 to run my dual Battle Born LiPos. I did the swap myself. It's not hard just tedious. The AC wiring in the 195 is ludicrously simple, so I started there by pulling it and transferring it over to the PD. It's simply bus bar to bus bar. I'd recommend getting a ferrule crimping kit for the stranded AC wiring and WAGO connectors for the DC wiring first, and take lots of pictures.

As you can see, it's spaghetti in there! I did trim a lot of extra wire and got rid of the wire nuts.

The PD4135 *is* smaller and will not fit into the cutout for the WFCO, it "falls in" the hole. For me, I ended up placing a furring strip behind the cabinet along the base of the hole for the lower two screws, and screwed the uppers into the cabinetry face board. The holes do not line up with the WFCO mounting holes; you'll need to drill new ones. Fortunately, the PD trim piece masks nearly all of the MacGyvering you did unless you REALLY look for it. I attached a picture of the final product.

ONE GREMLIN THAT APPEARED: I now have my running lights light very dim, and progressively get brighter for a few moments, then shut off - a minute later they light back up dimly, and start getting brighter again, cycle repeats over and over. I did replace the front junction box with a Pollak wiring box at the same time I did this job so I can't 100% say that this WFCO/PD swap had anything to do with my current issue - I suspect a bad ground somewhere.

Bottom line is that the PD is do-able, just be patient, take lots of pictures, label EVERYTHING as you take it out of the old box before installing it in the new.

[MattW]

Originally Posted by DonBr

Can't tell you what to get, but a note that the LIS was an in-between model prior to the AD. Probably very few made, and likely unobtainum. Too bad.

I've got an 8735-LIS that I bought to upgrade my trailer. Ended up upgrading the entire trailer, rather than just the converter. I'll post it on the classifieds.

Matt

[Bobstekeur]

I had a progressive dynamics in my 2013 Eagle but it didn’t have the lithium switch, I replaced it with a progressive dynamics converter that had the switch, it was a direct replacement

[Sabatorious]

My 2023 184BS came with WFCO 8735-AD which was supposed to "auto-detect" lithium battery vs lead acid. When I swapped in a lithium battery, at first it did not recognize the lithium battery as such and switch charging profiles. There is no manual switch. After reading experiences of others on the internet, I learned that you can "trick" the 8735-AD into recognizing a lithium battery by discharging the battery to an extremely low level then it would recognize the lithium battery and display a blue light and charge at a higher rate (~14.5 V instead of ~13.6 V). However, it automatically switched back to lead acid setting and I've not been able to get it back to lithium setting since.

I communicated with WFCO this week and they offered to send a jumper which will convert the converter to lithium only (which I'm fine with). I looked at Progressive Dynamics and was close to purchasing and making the switch; however, Jayco customer service informed me that it may void my warranty on the trailer. I will report back how the jumper solution works. On other forums I've read it sounds like the solution works well.

[MrKABC]

@sabatorious

I understand that some of the WFCO "AD" panels had issues out of the gate with auto detection if they were below a certain firmware version. Did the WFCO tech say anything about that?

Even if it was, a jumper sounds like a better solution than the remedy I saw elsewhere, which was sending the converter back to them for modification.
.
In re-reading my January post, I had talked about the flickering lights. Turned out to be a bad ground at the Pollak box that was the source of the problem. Added a ground wire there and all was good. The Progressive Dynamics panel worked flawlessly and my WFCO went in the trash.

[Sabatorious]

WFCO rep did ask the firmware version, I have the latest (1.19). I also read about others' experiences where they had to send the board in to WFCO to flash new firmware as well as install the jumper solution. I'm glad that they are not requiring me to send it in as I'm sure that would take many weeks! If this jumper solution doesn't work, I'll be swapping for the PD as soon as my warranty is up. Glad it's working well for you! I'm really disappointed with the WFCO auto-detection feature, it's terrible.

[JKyle]

[MrKABC]

Originally Posted by JKyle

? I am confused?