Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Jayco RV Owners Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-14-2018, 01:34 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: High Desert
Posts: 32
What’s the Simplest set up for inverter

I’m a first time owner. I’ve been trying to find the simplest way to install an inverter.

I do own a generator; however, I have read that there are many dry camping places where you’re not allow to have your generator running at night.

I want to install an inverter just run my Television, laptop and charging.

What’s the simplest way to do it?

I’ve drawn this for your review

Click image for larger version

Name:	D9C66820-5698-4A7D-90E5-CA8E9A14BC69.jpg
Views:	120
Size:	75.5 KB
ID:	37298

Is this the correct way to do it?

Your feedback will be greatly appreciate it
gilgrc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:06 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: kaml
Posts: 1,285
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilgrc View Post
I’m a first time owner. I’ve been trying to find the simplest way to install an inverter.

I do own a generator; however, I have read that there are many dry camping places where you’re not allow to have your generator running at night.

I want to install an inverter just run my Television, laptop and charging.

What’s the simplest way to do it?

I’ve drawn this for your review


Is this the correct way to do it?

Your feedback will be greatly appreciate it
Simplest method is to put the inverter somewhere and plug the shore cord into it and turn on the inverter so power the trailer AC circuits. Just make sure to turn off the battery charger.
PlayersZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2018, 02:07 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
ALJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sparwood, BC
Posts: 2,800
Send a message via Skype™ to ALJO
Just run one or two lines from the inverter to your power panel. Then install a couple of two way switches in the circuit to a particular plug. L1 is your shore power feed to the switch and L2 is the inverter line to the switch. P contact is the particular plug.
I have done this on the Fridge plug and General plugs. Just by flipping the switch you can be either on the normal shore power or inverter power.
__________________
2014 Ram 1500 CrewCab 4x4 5.7 Hemi 3.92 Rear and Air Lift 1000
2005 Jayco Jay Feather LGT - 29Y GVWR-7000 lbs.
Dexter Axle Lift 4-9/16" - installed with sub-frame.
Pro Series 1200 lbs. WDH with Double Sway Bar.
Champion 3100/2800 watt Inverter/Generator-Onboard Solar Power
ALJO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 11:10 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SW
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by gilgrc View Post
I’m a first time owner. I’ve been trying to find the simplest way to install an inverter.

I do own a generator; however, I have read that there are many dry camping places where you’re not allow to have your generator running at night.

I want to install an inverter just run my Television, laptop and charging.

What’s the simplest way to do it?

I’ve drawn this for your review

Attachment 37298

Is this the correct way to do it?

Your feedback will be greatly appreciate it
Schematic looks good with one observation. Shouldn't have to run cables to both pos and neg terminals on both 12vdc batteries (assuming you do *not* have two 6vdc). The 12vdc batteries should already be paralleled. Should be ok just connecting to one positive terminal and one negative terminal. Exception: if you're running a high capacity inverter, say 1000 watts or larger, then paralleling larger gauge cables to both terminals on both batteries may be appropriate to supplement (or replace) the OEM cabling which is typically too small for high current levels.

As long as you don't have a really large TV, or don't plan to power several devices at one time, a 300 watt inverter should suffice; otherwise, you may want to use a 600 watt inverter. Highly suggest purchasing a pure sine wave (PSW) inverter. Cheaper MSW (modified sine wave) inverters may not power some TV's, laptops, and phone chargers correctly.

Before your install, need to determine how long the cable run will be from the batteries to the inverter. Longer run, larger inverter, require larger gauge cables. Shorter runs, smaller inverters can operate with smaller gauge cables.

Lastly, make sure you connect the inverter to the batteries with the correct polarity---negative to negative---positive to positive. You didn't annotate polarity on your schematic. Connecting with the wrong polarity can permanently damage some inverters.

Good luck!
CampNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 12:25 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,588
Does anyone know of a weatherproof pure sine wave inverter on the market? It would be awesome to be able to mount one on the tongue up near the batteries and then run the shore power cord up to the tongue.
__________________
2013 F-150 EcoBoost MaxTow, Roush tuned (415hp 506tq), lifted on 33s, R.A.S.
2013 Jay Flight 28BHS Elite (Equalizer 10K hitch)
SkyBound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2018, 10:20 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 279
Just buy one that plugs into the cigarette lighter plug near the tv. 300 watts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
nighthawk87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 09:51 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SW
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighthawk87 View Post
Just buy one that plugs into the cigarette lighter plug near the tv. 300 watts


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If you do this, keep in mind a 300 watt inverter, under a full 300 watt load, can pull 25-30 amps of 12vdc.

Most cigarette lighter plugs and the wire connected to the plug are only rated for about 8-10 amps which is roughly equivalent to a 100 watt inverter. If you do power a 300 watt inverter with a cigarette lighter plug, highly recommend keeping the load no higher than 100 watts.

Placing a 30 amp load on plugs/wiring rated for only 8-10 amps can heat up the plug and wire---creating a potential fire hazard. A trailer's fuse may or may not prevent the plug/wire from over-heating---all depends on what size fuse is used on that particular DC circuit.
CampNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 09:56 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 279
Good point. Maybe good to get a 100w then. If your just running a lcd or led tv it shouldn’t be an issue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
nighthawk87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2018, 11:09 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,324
We have a 1000 watt PSW inverter! Set it on the top of battery box and secured it with a rubber strap inside the storage compartment. Did not want it to get wet, to expensive.Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
PSW 12=28=17.jpg  
bdreinv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 06:06 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Mad Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
It is pretty simple. Just install an inverter as close to the batteries as possible. Keeps high cost battery cables to a minimum. run Romex wire from there under the floor to the the location where the breaker panel is. Remove the GFCI breaker (the outlets) from the main breaker. Hook the Romex wires to the GFCI breaker. And you are done. All outlets will be on inverter.

Personally, I prefer using a inverter/charger combo. When off shore power or gen set, it is an inverter. When on shore power or gen set, it is a multi phase charger for the batteries and passes the shore power or gen set AC right thru to what it is hooked up to, like the GFCI breaker, in the unit. It auto switches as needed. I just disconnect the stock converter from the main breaker and leave it. It does require two Romex wire lines... one output and one input.

Sounds complicated, but it is actually quite simple. Just a little time consuming to set it all up.
Mad Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 07:00 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
ALJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sparwood, BC
Posts: 2,800
Send a message via Skype™ to ALJO
Mad Cow: "It sounds complicated, but is actually quite simple" So explain the setup for the forum members, I'm sure we all like to know.
__________________
2014 Ram 1500 CrewCab 4x4 5.7 Hemi 3.92 Rear and Air Lift 1000
2005 Jayco Jay Feather LGT - 29Y GVWR-7000 lbs.
Dexter Axle Lift 4-9/16" - installed with sub-frame.
Pro Series 1200 lbs. WDH with Double Sway Bar.
Champion 3100/2800 watt Inverter/Generator-Onboard Solar Power
ALJO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 07:19 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Mad Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
I pretty much did short of a blow by blow YouTube video presentation. It is pretty simple.

You mount an inverter/charger as close to the batteries as possible. Best location in the front pass thru storage area.

Two 2/0 cables from it to the battery(s). Something like a 150a fuse near the batteries as part of that. Ground the inverter/charger to the trailer via the ground terminal.

Run 8 gauge Romex 3 wire from the output of the inverter/charger, and another Romex from the input connector. Take them both under the trailer to the location where the main circuit box is in the trailer. Sleeve wrap the wires and secure them to the frame. Drill hole for these to go thru floor into the area where the main power breaker box is.

Disconnect the GFCI breaker from the main breaker on the panel. This is the breaker for all the AC outlets in the trailer. Run the line from the output of the inverter to the GFCI breaker and hook it up.

Disconnect the converter from the main breaker. Cap the wires from that and just leave it where it is. Connect the line from the input port of the inverter/charger to the main breaker connection that the converter used. Now when you are hooked up to shore power, the inverter/charger will perform multi phase charging of your battery(s). At the same time, that shore power will be passed thru the inverter/charger back thru to the GFCI breaker and outlets just like it does when in inverter mode.

Each individual trailer will be a little different and one will have to use some ingenuity in selecting locations for wiring runs. But the principle is just that simple. I have set up inverter/chargers several times.

Of course, it involves a little more to hook up other stuff, like the microwave, to the inverter line. But again, it is not complicated. Just a matter of breakers and connections.
Mad Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 07:40 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
ALJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Sparwood, BC
Posts: 2,800
Send a message via Skype™ to ALJO
I would check your schematic again. As you hook de inverter up to the converter, yes the inverter/charger will charge your battery and also your converter has a charger (with a diode is this possible). So if you have a 3000 watt inverter (like I have), you would beable to run the A/C or MW simultaneously. But the two 12 volt charging outlets will not maintain the power draw for the A/C and/or MW. I wish it would work that way, but you need a charger over 100 amps to keep up with the 12 v system. I have since the early 90's an inverter (less capacity I have now) It also takes at least 4 - 6 volt deep cycle batteries to keep up. Glad you brought this up so others can learn.
__________________
2014 Ram 1500 CrewCab 4x4 5.7 Hemi 3.92 Rear and Air Lift 1000
2005 Jayco Jay Feather LGT - 29Y GVWR-7000 lbs.
Dexter Axle Lift 4-9/16" - installed with sub-frame.
Pro Series 1200 lbs. WDH with Double Sway Bar.
Champion 3100/2800 watt Inverter/Generator-Onboard Solar Power
ALJO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2018, 07:50 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Mad Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
This is why I prefer a inverter/charger unit and disconnection of the converter. Else, there is risk of back loop when on inverter, as AC from the inverter is driving the converter to charge the batteries, which are being used by the inverter. And round and round we go. Not a good deal.

Having a single unit solution that covers both inverting and converter/charging works much better.

What seems lame is that of all the various options one can spec in a TT from the factory, this is not one of them except in some rare cases. It would makes things much more simpler for everyone.

Given the nature of things today, for all the AC outlets not being active at all times, on shore power or not, seems pretty myopic of TT OEM's. Between laptop charging, TV watching, CPAP use, whatever... all the AC outlets should be hot all the time. All folks would have to do is then add batteries to cover the amp hour usage they are doing.
Mad Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:03 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SW
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Cow View Post
I pretty much did short of a blow by blow YouTube video presentation. It is pretty simple.

You mount an inverter/charger as close to the batteries as possible. Best location in the front pass thru storage area.

Two 2/0 cables from it to the battery(s). Something like a 150a fuse near the batteries as part of that. Ground the inverter/charger to the trailer via the ground terminal.

Run 8 gauge Romex 3 wire from the output of the inverter/charger, and another Romex from the input connector. Take them both under the trailer to the location where the main circuit box is in the trailer. Sleeve wrap the wires and secure them to the frame. Drill hole for these to go thru floor into the area where the main power breaker box is.

Disconnect the GFCI breaker from the main breaker on the panel. This is the breaker for all the AC outlets in the trailer. Run the line from the output of the inverter to the GFCI breaker and hook it up.

Disconnect the converter from the main breaker. Cap the wires from that and just leave it where it is. Connect the line from the input port of the inverter/charger to the main breaker connection that the converter used. Now when you are hooked up to shore power, the inverter/charger will perform multi phase charging of your battery(s). At the same time, that shore power will be passed thru the inverter/charger back thru to the GFCI breaker and outlets just like it does when in inverter mode.

Each individual trailer will be a little different and one will have to use some ingenuity in selecting locations for wiring runs. But the principle is just that simple. I have set up inverter/chargers several times.

Of course, it involves a little more to hook up other stuff, like the microwave, to the inverter line. But again, it is not complicated. Just a matter of breakers and connections.
Kudos to you for your knowledge/experience, for taking the time to briefly explain your installation process, and for taking the time to post a youtube video about your installation.

Unfortunately, I have to disagree with your statement that the installation you described is "simple".

Couple of questions:

How does one calculate what gauge cable is necessary for any given installation? I ask this because you failed to explain why you used 8 gauge romex or 2/0 cable. Long runs? High current? Or both? Is 8 gauge romex or 2/0 cable necessary or appropriate for all installations?

Any suggestion about the best tool to use to crimp cable terminals---especially when installing 2/0 cable?

How do you suggest the inverter output be connected when all the outlets in the trailer are not GFCI protected and are parsed among several breakers?

You used a 150 amp fuse. Can you explain if a 150 amp fuse is necessary or appropriate for all installations?

Any suggestions for those folks who do not want to use a more expensive inverter/charger?

Are there any disadvantages to installing a converter, inverter, or inverter/charger, in the pass-thru, basement area on travel trailers where the occupants may be sleeping mere inches away from the installed equipment?

Is the installation so simple, and safe, that no precautions are necessary to ensure the safety of the installer and the trailer's electrical system?

I believe you could help some of the folks here if you addressed some of these questions.

Thanks!
CampNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:20 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Mad Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
You know, there is a wealth of info online. For a inverter/charger that is putting down 55 amps of charging to the batteries, and within 10 feet, 1/0 gauge cable will work, but 2/0 gauge is more safe. You never want to be too small on 12v cable between inverter/charger and battery(s). You can be larger than needed comfortably. Every retailer that specializes in selling inverters and inverter/chargers have guidance on this.

And for ballpark 18 amps of AC output of a typical 2000w inverter charger, 8 gauge Romex is the better choice, especially in an exterior application like a trailer, and considering the short intervals where there is surge output of nearly twice that. A typical 2000w inverter or inverter/charger will output 3600w to 4000w for a few seconds like during a compressor startup. One could use 6, but that is really more than needed. 10 is not ideal for this, being too light. It could work fine under very light load cycles. 8 gauge sits right in the middle and offers safety.

These things are easily found online. I am not an electrician, nor do I play on on TV. I did manage to get thru all my schooling and college, and do know how to look things up.

I generally order the DC cable length I need and have the loops crimped on as part of the order. That is the beauty of keeping distance between inverter and batteries as close as possible. Keeps the cost down for cable, you know better the actual lengths you need, and you keep amp loss thru the wiring to a minimum.

150 fuse is the most for this application using a 2/0 cable. and the fuse is to be mounted as close to the battery(s) as possible. I usually have it within 6 inches of the battery terminal. The fuse is to protect the wiring, not the inverter or the batteries. So you size the fuse to the size of cable you are using. 12v DC cable can get pretty warm under max power flow.

Much of this remains the same if only using an inverter as opposed to an inverter/charger. Only real difference is that one leaves the stock converter in place to charge batteries on shore power. The main problem, is that an inverter only setup will always have AC outlets on the inverter, deriving power from the batteries 100% of the time. With a inverter/charger, when on shore power or generator, the power is passed thru the inverter charger to the outlets, and therefore there is no scavenging of the batteries and the batteries are charged more quickly. The setup just becomes more complicated using an inverter only. Use of inverter/charger eliminates the stock converter and simplifies the setup. And most inverter/chargers allow for user defined charging amperage so that there can be a better balance between both charging and the use of AC thru the GFCI outlets in the coach.
Mad Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 10:20 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: SW
Posts: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Cow View Post
You know, there is a wealth of info online. For a inverter/charger that is putting down 55 amps of charging to the batteries, and within 10 feet, 1/0 gauge cable will work, but 2/0 gauge is more safe. You never want to be too small on 12v cable between inverter/charger and battery(s). You can be larger than needed comfortably. Every retailer that specializes in selling inverters and inverter/chargers have guidance on this.

And for ballpark 18 amps of AC output of a typical 2000w inverter charger, 8 gauge Romex is the better choice, especially in an exterior application like a trailer, and considering the short intervals where there is surge output of nearly twice that. A typical 2000w inverter or inverter/charger will output 3600w to 4000w for a few seconds like during a compressor startup. One could use 6, but that is really more than needed. 10 is not ideal for this, being too light. It could work fine under very light load cycles. 8 gauge sits right in the middle and offers safety.

These things are easily found online. I am not an electrician, nor do I play on on TV. I did manage to get thru all my schooling and college, and do know how to look things up.

I generally order the DC cable length I need and have the loops crimped on as part of the order. That is the beauty of keeping distance between inverter and batteries as close as possible. Keeps the cost down for cable, you know better the actual lengths you need, and you keep amp loss thru the wiring to a minimum.

150 fuse is the most for this application using a 2/0 cable. and the fuse is to be mounted as close to the battery(s) as possible. I usually have it within 6 inches of the battery terminal. The fuse is to protect the wiring, not the inverter or the batteries. So you size the fuse to the size of cable you are using. 12v DC cable can get pretty warm under max power flow.

Much of this remains the same if only using an inverter as opposed to an inverter/charger. Only real difference is that one leaves the stock converter in place to charge batteries on shore power. The main problem, is that an inverter only setup will always have AC outlets on the inverter, deriving power from the batteries 100% of the time. With a inverter/charger, when on shore power or generator, the power is passed thru the inverter charger to the outlets, and therefore there is no scavenging of the batteries and the batteries are charged more quickly. The setup just becomes more complicated using an inverter only. Use of inverter/charger eliminates the stock converter and simplifies the setup. And most inverter/chargers allow for user defined charging amperage so that there can be a better balance between both charging and the use of AC thru the GFCI outlets in the coach.
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. I think you've helped some folks . . . and also shown . . . it's not quite as simple as you make it to be. I might also add there are legitimate safety concerns that you did not address.

You seem to have done your homework, but I believe you could have saved quite a bit of copper if you had taken the time to fabricate your own cables and calculated the proper gauge cable necessary to get a suitable (1-2%) voltage drop using some simple ohm's law calculations. Granted, using larger than needed conductors typically causes no harm, but why spend more money or force yourself to manhandle larger gauge cable when you don't have to. Also, pre-fab cables are typically very expensive. On a project of your size I could have easily paid for a 16-ton crimper with the savings vs. pre-fab---not to mention the aesthetics of a cable that fits absolutely perfectly. Just some food for thought.

I get the impression you may not be aware that Xantrex makes an excellent 15 amp transfer switch ($60) that works well with nearly any circuit or inverter up to its rating. It's easy to install and switches very quickly---typically there's no service disruption to/from shore power with most devices. There's no need to install an inverter with no shore power option for the circuit it powers. Yes, inverter/chargers have their advantages, but cost is not one of them.
CampNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 10:31 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,324
Wow way over my head, still like my extension cord run from my inverter.Installed one plug for my TV works fine. Real basic!
Attached Thumbnails
PSW 12=28=17.jpg  
bdreinv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:09 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: kaml
Posts: 1,285
This thread went from "simplest" to a full blown install
PlayersZ28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2018, 12:31 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Mad Cow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Iowa
Posts: 139
It is true, CN, if I was doing multiple applications of this for others that buying cable in bulk and crimping my own connectors would be cheaper on a volume basis But I am not. I probably do this sort of thing every year or two, with quality and the desired results. So the additional cost of having cables at length, ready to drop in, is negligible and worth it.

A similar idea regarding putting a bypass filtration unit on my commercial truck engine. I could have bought all the individual components and built it from scratch and saved a little money. But I opted for a complete kit created for my engine/truck setup. Saved hours of time and eliminated any wasted time that could have been the fault of individual error. And it seems anymore, time is a valuable commodity. I don't mind doing projects, but I don't like to take the Popular Mechanics road and turn it into an adventure.

I get more the idea, CN, that from your various posts that you don't agree the setup I mentioned, as you seem more pretty intent on shooting holes in it. Well, that's cool. Then don't do it. I just offered the idea. Folks can pass it over or give it some thought if that is a way they would like to do things. Each of us is seeking individual outcomes.
Mad Cow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Jayco, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2016 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.