Winterize Question

[mrfizban]

I'm sure these winterize questions are somewhat common, but just wondered if someone has the quick science here that I'm missing.

I've got a 2019 Jay Flight SLX 245RLSW that's never used water in the storage, but only used the "city water" hose inlet from campgrounds. I usually just make sure the valves are all open and every last drip has gone through the system by running the pump for a minute or so after it's empty. Then put the cover on it and put it in our RV port next to the house. And our temps never get below 20's, so it's usually pretty rare for any pipes outside or in the shed to freeze since it's pretty moderate temps here in winter. And never had any problems with my old pop up trailers freezing over the years.

But I've seen a lot of posts about winterizing. I get the better safe than sorry for $10 and a few minutes of time, but still wondering what I'm missing that makes the winterizing essential (unless it's for folks in colder weather, or with more water lines/amenities than my basic plain, jane trailer). Just curious since there's no liquids in any lines and no pressure on any residual liquids in there, so I feel like I'm either missing something, or some folks have really cold winters or some internal lines from amenities that I'm completely not aware of here. Thanks!

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by mrfizban

I feel like I'm either missing something, or some folks have really cold winters or some internal lines from amenities that I'm completely not aware of here. Thanks!

You can always have a low spot or fitting where the water doesn't completely run out. This is especially critical for fittings as they are usually the first to fail if they freeze. The pex lines themselves are pretty resilient.

[skids]

It seems that you are talking yourself out of it. That is fine if you don't get a blast of subfreezing weather like Texas did a couple of years ago!

[mrfizban]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

You can always have a low spot or fitting where the water doesn't completely run out. This is especially critical for fittings as they are usually the first to fail if they freeze. The pex lines themselves are pretty resilient.

Thanks very helpful.

And Skids. Not really trying to talk myself into or out of it at all. I've just never had to do it and I've had trailers here since the 80s (and my neighbors and friends don't winterize their small pop-up trailers here in our climate other than purging and blowing out the lines). So it was really just the curious scientist in me wondering what happens in these larger trailers and colder climates that is causing people to need to winterize their trailers as I couldn't even comprehend where the expansion is happening that could damage anything in most simple trailers once you purge and blow out all water out of all of the lines. But figured it was something unique in the engineering of these larger units and closed water systems that can't drain easily that I was not comprehending. Thanks again!

[Waltdrechsler]

Originally Posted by mrfizban

Thanks very helpful.

And Skids. Not really trying to talk myself into or out of it at all. I've just never had to do it and I've had trailers here since the 80s (and my neighbors and friends don't winterize their small pop-up trailers here in our climate other than purging and blowing out the lines). So it was really just the curious scientist in me wondering what happens in these larger trailers and colder climates that is causing people to need to winterize their trailers as I couldn't even comprehend where the expansion is happening that could damage anything in most simple trailers once you purge and blow out all water out of all of the lines. But figured it was something unique in the engineering of these larger units and closed water systems that can't drain easily that I was not comprehending. Thanks again!

I live in PNW and it rarely gets cold enough to be an issue….. but it could and if I’m out of town I don’t want to worry about it. I blow all the lines out, drain and bypass the hot water heater and then add 2 gallons of RV coolant. Then we put the cover on to keep it clean. When we store the trailer in Arizona I don’t worry about it, just the cover. I sleep better knowing I’m covered. For me personally it’s just not worth the risk.

[Riich]

Originally Posted by mrfizban

I'm sure these winterize questions are somewhat common, but just wondered if someone has the quick science here that I'm missing.

Here's a science project for you. Put a can of soda or beer in the freezer overnight. Let us know the results of the experiment in the morning. This will give you a very good indication of what rv water lines go through when they freeze.

Lucky you for the climate you live in, I'm slightly jealous.

[Jerry713]

FYI if you only use city water connection it is good once in a while to put some water in the fresh water holding tank and use your 12 volt pump. Water can sit in that pump and get pretty nasty if not used.

[mrfizban]

Originally Posted by Riich

Here's a science project for you. Put a can of soda or beer in the freezer overnight. Let us know the results of the experiment in the morning. This will give you a very good indication of what rv water lines go through when they freeze.

Lucky you for the climate you live in, I'm slightly jealous.

LOL. I know it was tongue-in-cheek. But that example was almost exactly what I was getting at.

I've got lots of examples of farm implement, vehicles and accessory buildings with pressurized water or a where water is trapped and contained by a valve in some way to not allow for expansion. But in all of the trailers I've owned, I've left them with little to now residual water and all valves are left open to allow for any ice expansion to not impact anything. So precisely to your example, I've always opened up the beer, drank 90% of the can, then stuck it in the freezer and made sure the tab was still open to the freezer air. And the beer simply freezes and the expansion escapes through the open pull-tab. So I've never owned a trailer where your sticking the closed can into the freezer, just an open one with liquid removed and space allowed for liquid to expand. So I'm trying to figure out the science for why folks in colder climates need to worry about it. I think Grumpy may have answered it if there are fitting somewhere with enough residual that it could crack or damage them, and clearly water lines to amenities, water lines for fridges, or showers might run into issues, but I was just trying to better understand it. Thanks again. Love the group's insights.

[Riich]

Originally Posted by mrfizban

I've always opened up the beer, drank 90% of the can, then stuck it in the freezer and made sure the tab was still open to the freezer air. And the beer simply freezes and the expansion escapes through the open pull-tab.

Now that is self control. Any can I've opened gets drained and leaves me looking for another one.

You have a great day.

[BuddyRay]

Not only fittings but it's amazing how many valves there are in RV's. My pump area has bypass valves for the water heater (so if you winterize with antifreeze you don't have to fill the hot water heater with antifreeze), by pass valves for pumping in the antifreeze or filling the fresh water tank while boondocking, etc. I have SEVEN ball valves in that area and some of them are at a low point in the system. It's those valves and 90 degree connectors and T connectors that will freeze and split.
Most of the time things like this can be easily repaired IF you can get to them without ripping out walls, cabinets, etc. But who needs the hassle.
An options that's not often mentioned but only works if you have power available where you store your RV is to run a small floor heater. I have one with an electronic thermostat that I set to 40 (the lowest it will go) and just leave in the RV all winter. I open the cabinets under the sinks. This kicks just enough heat into the RV to keep things from freezing. Even the lines in "unheated" areas of storage, etc. still stay warm enough from 'leaked' heat.

[mjdcwo]

When I was young (many years ago) and had a simple "pop up" camper I used to just blow the water system out and call it good. Then one spring I found that my valve at the sink had cracked as I hadn't gotten all of the moisture out and it settled into a low spot in the valve. Ever since then, I buy several gallons of RV antifreeze and pump it through the system of any RV that I currently own. Cheap insurance and a much more pleasant Spring first camping trip.

[Hollander Mutthaulers]

A little water freezing in tanks - grey, black, fresh, water heater - will have room to expand - no problem.
The problem comes when even a little water freezes in the valves and elbows - that can warp or break them.
For about six bucks and ten minutes of time I make sure there is good glycol RV antifreeze in all those little water traps. Six cold winters of no freeze damage convinces me antifreeze is worth the cost and time.
But I'm up here and you're down there. I have my easy rig, you have your RV.
I'd be wary with 20 degree temps over several nights if it did not get above freezing during the day.
It's a chance you take. Either way you'll luck out, either freeze free or a free DIY lesson in RV plumbing.

[ChristopherW]

My GreyHawk has a plastic, inline, quart size water filter hidden under the sink that was not in the owners guide and I did not notice until the second year I had the unit. I really worry about a plastic fitting, at a low spot, holding a little water and breaking. It is so easy to have the unit suck in 4 gallons of the pink anti-freeze every year that I don't worry about a freeze. It is an easy 30 minute job to flush the anti-freeze as part of my sanitization process every year.

[cekkk]

You cannot be certain there’s no water in the lines, and it swells up and cracks that stuff so easily. As you said, $10 in a few minutes time and you lose zero sleep worrying should there be a serious cold snap?

[CBCOCRBO]

Hey for a few bucks for RV antifreeze and an hour of your time it's cheap insurance and peace of mind. Personally i wouldn't park my rig for the winter anywhere without doing it. I live in Canada just across the border from International Falls Mn and it is quite common to get extended periods of down to well below zero Farenheight during January and February so is a must for this part of NA but given the quirky weather the continent has had in the past few years I'd do it no matter where I live. Cheers