Centurion CS3000

[rabbitrogan]

G'day all.

I'm new to the forums and new to the world of Jayco campers. I'm a mechanic by trade but I'm scratching my head on this one.

Here goes.

I'm wiring in a deep cycle as my Penguin camper doesn't have one. Now I've done alot of research and to no avail. First off, where is the correct spot to wire in the battery to the converter??
I have tapped into the + (red) and - (white) that comes straight from the back of the converter before it attaches to a buss bar. While it works and I have power to just the lights so far, I don't have any power to the power points in the camper. I have also tried tapping into the individual circuit wires aswell (blue) (blue w/yellow) (blue w/White) in attempts to isolate whether it was a single circuit I'm looking for. Everything works 100% when plugged into mains power but only lights seem to work on 12v.

Second thing i noticed is that when I run off the deep cycle, the fan on the converter isn't working. It works on mains power though so I'm thinking maybe this has something to do with the battery being wired in wrong? Is this normal?

Can anyone shed some light on this? I have been over fuses and breakers, all are good. Really need an idea on correct wiring setup so that I can start testing everything else.


Thanks in advance

Matt

[Scott]

Hi Matt,

Welcome to the JOF. Everyone here is really nice and happy to help. We have only camped with an RV for 1 year but tent camped for a while before that. I have learned so much from the veteran RVers that is has saved my butt on more that one occasion. I camped in my parents RV my entire childhood but it is sure different when you are the one who has to make it all work!

If by power points you are refering to the regular household type outlets in your camper, they will not work off of the battery, only when plugged into shore power. My converter fan only runs when plugged into shore power as well as the converter charges the battery. It sounds like everything is working as it should. This all suprised me the first time I tried it too and I thought something was wrong until I found out this info.

Hope this helps.

[Crabman]

Welcome to the forum. I`m thinking this is an Australian made Jayco?

[RoyBraddy]

This is typical electrical wiring diagram of the 30AMP Trailer configuration. Notice that the 12VDC Distribution Panel is fed by both the 12VDC BATTERY and the 12VDC coming form the 120VAC Converter.

I have found it never works well tapping into the 12VDC lines for connections. I always do my connections at terminal lug points.

In regards to the FAN on the CONVERTER chassis. It will only come on when you are on 120VAC Shore Power. The fan is part of the on-board CONVERTER chassis and gets its operating voltage from the 120VAC Shore Power connection as shown in the drawing...



I ran 4AWG cabling from the on-board converter and 12VDC Distribution Panel to my 12VDC Battery bank. My battery bank consists of three 12VDC GP24 Interstate batteries in parallel giving me around 255AHs capacity. Works great when camping off the power grid....


good luck of your re-wiring...

[rabbitrogan]

Hey guys. Sorry about the delayed response, for some reason I wasn't allowed to post anything.

Yes it is an Australian model camper, I probably should have put that in.
And yes by power points that would be what you call outlets. I have since wired in to the converter and set up a 380w inverter instead to run my led lcd tv and phone chargers etc. I was hoping and was told by an Australian Jayco dealer that when I wired into the converter that it would run all outlets and lights as normal. So I kind of had high hopes for that but the setup I have now will work just as well, just had to do a little more work.

Haven't been able to get too much information over here and I have spent many hours scouring the net looking for answers. The dealers push for the job and hence don't give out the secrets but they weren't getting my money.

That is a pretty serious setup Roy. Enough to power a small town for a week by the looks of it. Would be a lot more power than I need. I'm running 100ah deep cycle and charge off a 100w solar setup or my yamaha 1kva generator if I need to. I do a bit of camping away from mains power and have yet to take my new camper out.

[RoyBraddy]

I started out much the same as your setup with a 30AMP Converter/Battery charger and found out real quick one battery was NOT going to do much for me. My incandescent interior lights each draw 1AMP of 12VDC power for each bulb turned on. My LCD TV setup runs around 50watts of power. My furnace blower system runs around 6AMPs DC... I lasted a few hours the first evening out just running lights.

When you add the words "BEING SUCCESSFUL" the situation changes...

Like you I figured around 300WATTS of 12VDC power was what I was going to require to make it through just one night of camping. Two things stand out pretty big in making this goal. I would have to make my trailer as "GREEN" as I could make it and come up with sure way to quickly recharge my batteries.

The biggest thing in going "GREEN" is to change out all of the incandescent automotive bulbs for LED lightning. This will decrease your lights power drain by a BIG 80% of current to be used... In my case I have six incandescent automotive bulbs in use in the trailer when camping. This does not include any of the trailer road lights which is all powered by the tow vehicle... Six automotive bulbs draws around 6AMPS of power at 12VDC. With all of these lamps converted to LED devices I am under 1AMP of current now with all of these being "ON" at the same time... The next thing I did was change out my ELIXIR 30AMP single mode Converter/charger unit to a more modern smart mode converter/charger unit. This allows my batteries to be re-charged in a quick three hour time frame up to the 90% charge state.

According to the laws of recharging deep cycle batteries the 13.6VDC out single mode converter/charger would require 40 hours of charge to return the battery to 90% of full charge and 78 hours to reach full charge. The smart mode converter/charger using 14.4VDC can do this re-charge to 90% in approximately three hours. The time required to fully charge the battery to 100% is approximately 11-12 hours.

The next thing I had to consider is how many batteries will it take to be successful... If I establish 300WATTS being by day/night battery consumption then looking at battery specs I found out my 85AH battery will only produce 25AMPS @ 12VDC for only around 140 minutes or 2.3 hours of run time. This means it will get dark on me around 10PM each night just running a few lights and watching my LCD TV setup with ONE GP24 85AH battery.

We wanted to watch TV, listen to music, have my NOAH WX radio on, run a few lights, keep our cell phones and computer batteries recharged, maybe have a electric blanket in the wife's lap, which is much the same as you are wanting to I suspect.

My trailer also has a few things that are on 24/7 which is called parasitic drains. Mine is around 1-2 AMPS. I will run right at 20AMPS of 12VDC power between 8PM and 11PM each night running all the so called toys... With all of this in mind I ended up installing three of the GP24 85AH Interstate batteries which gives me 255AHs of battery capacity. This will run 25AMPs for 420 minutes or 7 hours before depleting my batteries down to 10.5VDC or 0% charge state. Since I don't ever want to drop below 12.0VDC or 50% charge state I have to keep tabs by watching my meter panel. It turns out I am at right at 12.0VD at 8AM the next morning with is my SAFE zone to be at before starting up my battery re-charge..

In regards to recharging my batteries I hook up my trailer shore power connecter directly to the 2KW Honda Generator 120VAC receptacles. I do this at 8AM each morning when camping off the power grid. I constantly keep tabs on my battery banks watching the DC VOLTs level and how much current is being used or provided when being charged using a homemade meter panel.

When my battery bank drops to around 12.0VDC which was designed to happen at 8AM each morning, My two 12VDC Meters start reading 14.4VDC and my DC CURRENT jumps to around 52AMPS when I first fire up the generator running my trailer. This will immediately start tapering off and in two hours time will be around 6AMPs of DC current. Then the smart mode on-board converter/charger unit switches to 13.6VDC which raises the DC CURRENT up to around 8 AMPs of DC current and this remains there for an additional hour. At the end of this three hour period my battery bank will drop to float mode of 13.2VDC indicating my battery bank is back up to its 90% charge state.

In your case running your 100WATT Solar panel to recharge just ONE BATTERY will not happen for a few days to get the one battery back up to even a 90% charge state. If you continually do this with your battery it will self destruct on you and require replacement. Battery Science says you must re-charge your battery back to its 90% charge state as soon as possible and also do a complete 100% charge state within 12-14 deep cycle charging modes of 50% to 90% charge states. Don't take my word on this - read up on charging deep cycle batteries.

To be SUCCESSFUL you need to do some serious planning...

Just passing all of this on to get you thinking in the right direction. Otherwise you will be running around the camp site with flashligths and candles again just like we did in the tent camping days hehe...

This is how PROGRESSIVE DYNAMICS says to re-charge deep cycle batteries...
"Progressive Dynamics ran this test on the amount of time it took a PD9155 (55-amp) converter/charger set to three different output voltages to recharge a 125 AH (Amp Hour) battery after it was fully discharged to 10.5-volts.

14.4-VOLTS (Boost Mode) – Returned the battery to 90% of full charge in approximately 3-hours. The battery reached full charge in approximately 11 hours.

13.6-VOLTS (Normal Mode) – Required 40-hours to return the battery to 90% of full charge and 78-hours to reach full charge.

13.2-VOLTS (Storage Mode) – Required 60-hours to return the battery to 90% of full charge and 100-hours to reach full charge."

Not many different ways available to you to properly re-charge a DEEP CYCLE battery...

My camping off the power grid experience...
Roy Ken

[RoyBraddy]

I was just looking at the spec sheets for the TROJAN batteries for their GP27 12VDC 105AH battery 27TMX model. It shows this battery will produce 25AMPS@12VDC for just 175minutes or 2.9 hours. Your 380WATT Inverter will draw around 30AMPS of power from the battery if fully loaded. You will get something less than the 2.9 hours of use doing this.

The other problem you will have is when use your 100w solar setup it is going to take a very long time to return your one battery back up to its safe 90% charge state. The usable DC output of your one 80WATT panel is only around 6AMPS DC. Keep in mind you need to hit your discharged battery with at least 14.4VDC with 20AMPS current for two hours and 13.6VDC with 8AMPS for an additional hour to return the battery back to its 90% charge state in a three hour time frame. Even using the Yamaha 1kva generator with your CS3000 it will take a very long generator run time to get back up to its 90% charge state since your CS3000 only outputs 12.0VDC. According to the statement above it will take 80 hours of using 13.6VDC to get to the 90% charge state or 78 hours to get to full 100% charge state. It will be much more if all you have to use is 12.0VDC as the spec sheet for your CS3000 states.

Roy Ken

[rabbitrogan]

Holy hell Roy lol. Definitely got me thinking a little more about everything however I have read a fair bit into everything before purchasing all of what I have. I'm a very infrequent camper. I usually go away maybe once a year for a 5 day week, sometimes for a 3 day weekend. I haven't used my camper as yet so I will probably have a steep learning curve once out. I am about to purchase and replace all 5 incadescent globes that are fitted in my camper for LED which is pretty much now at the top of my list. I have noticed a lot of talk on here about heaters (furnaces) and such. The aussie model pop ups don't come fitted with anything as such so theres a big save there.

It's only for my partner and myself, oh and my baby due in 2 weeks so as far as using a lot of power during the day it generally doesn't happen. We usually take our boat away aswell and spend most of the days out on the water. I have a 3 way fridge in the jayco so it will be mainly ran on gas (not the most efficient way of cooling, I know but it keeps the drain off the battery.) My cooking setup is also off the gas setup. The water tank is a manual hand prime so no electric pump. The only things that will be run off the battery is lighting, the lcd tv and maybe a phone charger. Everything (if used) will be used of a night time as I don't have a need for the power usage during the day. I honestly don't have any appliances that I will run from power during day light hours.

So the solar setup will be setup all day with no drain on the deep cycle till night fall and if I do require the extra top up, I can run the generator and my smart charger direct to the battery as I won't bother using the converter as a charge point just from what I've read.

I think that given all the info, I should be ok to run my 100ah deep cycle without too many issues and mainly with fairly minimal power draw. Does it sound logical? Am I right to think that with the led light change and the usage stated that I should be able to maintain a usable battery level for a week off the grid? The inverter will only run the tv on some nights and a phone charger but probably won't even be at the same time. So as far as flying the inverter at full noise, I don't think I'm going to come close. It's not a lot of time out of a battery when you put it into context. I don't run a lot though as I still like the feeling of being away from home and roughing it. Just want the ease of setup when I get there so I can spend more time doing what I do.

As for running the LCD Tv. What is a better alternative to run it as opposed to using an inverter? At this point without having the power points (outlets) on the deep cycle I'm kind of at a loss as to which way I should/can go. The tv is rated to use 35w which is awesome but I lose the energy save in running it through the inverter. It wasn't my ideal setup but I didn't really have another path to go down short of always being hooked up to mains power all the time. And running another battery at this time isn't really logical as I don't get away as often as I would like plus I'm pushing quite a bit more weight than I would like. My axle is set back 3/4 down the camper so tow ball weight is quite a bit heavier than most. I have tried to counter it as much as possible but storage doesn't permit a lot at the back of the camper.

If you get chance have a look at a site such as www.yahoo.com.au and look up a 2002 Jayco Penguin. This is what I own and it may give you a little more insight as to what I'm working with. I'm assuming that as usual we get the crap end of the market like Australia always does and the american stuff is a lot more user friendly and filled with all the good things.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Matt

[RoyBraddy]

If it were me I would just keep a close watch on the battery DC VOLTAGE when running things off of it using a real DC MULTIMETER . When it drops down to 12.0VDC then you should stop using the battery...

This will tell you when you are getting close to draining the battery below 50% charge state. Then try to bring the battery back up to at least 90% charge state during the daytime hours when the sun is high. You want to get the battery back up to the 12.5-6VDC level after it settles for ten minutes or so.

Your LED lights will not be a problem for battery drain but the the 35WATT LCD TV will draw around 3 AMPS or so... keep in mind you have to put back into the battery what you have taken out. The solar panel will only produce around 6 AMPS of usable charge power so keeping it re-charging your battery all afternoon whenthe sun is high should re-coup what you have taken out of it hopefully...

This is handy charge showing what the battery DC VOLTAGE reading is verses what the charge state is. This is not exact but will give you a good idea what is happening as it occurs.


Most folks would not dream of camping off the power grid with just one battery. The best setup for lots of battery power for the bucks spent would be two each 6VDC Golf Cart GC2 batteries. They cost around $70-$90 each and are available from SAMS/COSTCO here in the states. Two of these together connected in series will give you around 220AHs @ 12VDC.

We camp alot here off the power grid and do alot of things out in the country side and mountain trails etc. When we get back to settle in for the night the HDTV and checking in with family and paying bills etc comes in handy... I am also a Ham radio radio which will consume alot of power if I get into it pretty heavy.

It is hard to think you will only live off of what comes from the solar panels. This is only there when the sun is out. The idea should be to run everything from batteries and use the solar power to just charge your batteries back... To get 20AMPS of solar power will require at least four 100WATT panels if you want to re-charge your batteries in a quick three hour time frame using smart mode charging techniques.. To charge my three deep cycle batteries in a three hour generator run time I have to use my PD9260C 60AMP OUTPUT Converter/charger being run by my 2KW Honda generator. If I only had the one 80WATT Solar panel the 6AMPS usable DC current coming from it from noon to lets say 4-5PM would not get the job done in two or three days time...

Just more things to think about...

I always try all of these things out in my back yard before I commit to being stranded in the back trails somewhere hehe...

It does take some planning for what you want to do - you just can't run for the off trail places and expect to survive the night with battery power left. It will get dark on you around 10PM at night is what always happened to me... Then I have to deal with momabear haha...

Momabear is from Texas - they always shoot first and then ask questions...

Roy Ken

[rabbitrogan]

LOL. Yeah i have heard that about the texans hehehehe.

Yeah does make a lot of sense. I will start considering a 2nd battery now but I might attempt an outting on the 1 and see what happens. Like I have said I'm a very infrequent camper and its already quite a bit of coin sitting in storage already. Most of my trips only average a period of about 3-4 days away and its not guaranteed that the tv will be used every night as it will only have a dvd player attached and not have tv reception. I don't have an antenna in place and not planning on it as I would rather sit around a fire and socialize.

I have always tent camped wherever I go so if the battery were to drop out, Ive got other lighting in place already that does light up the interior fairly well as well as lanterns and the like. It sounds like you are running quite a bit more in the way of accessories than what I am and what I plan to. I work 2 jobs over here in AUS. 1 being for a camping company that sells deep cycle and all the rest of it. May price up another deep cycle and see what happens from there. I really only will be running lights off the battery and maybe the tv 1 night or 2 out of any given trip. Your figures definitely do help as they put light on the bits and pieces I have overlooked .

The only thing I need to work out is what other option I have instead of using the inverter for the tv and cutting out that massive power drain. If I'm using just the TV on the inverter for lets say 2.5 hours. what is the average power draw from my 380 watt inverter?

Cheers

Matt

[RoyBraddy]

Your automotive type incandescent lamp bulbs will draw 1 AMP each @ 12VDC... The 35WATT TV set will draw around 3AMPs each hour @12VDC... Your RV trailer will also have a parastic drain of around 1AMP per hour. So adding all of that up for 2.5 hours gives you around 13AMPS for the evening.

If your single battery is a GP27 (105AH) it should produce around 13AMPS for 350 minutes or 5.8 hours...
If your single battery is a GP24 (85AH) it should produce around 13AMPS for 280 minutes or 4.6 hours...

Of course going for the full 5.8 or 4.6 hours will drain your battery down to 10.5VDC or 0% charge which you don't really want to do. You want to not ever get below 12.0VDC or 50% charge state so that will cut those two reading in half.. So you really only have 3.0 hours using the GP27 battery or 2.5 hours using the GP24 battery. If you drain out your battery to 0% charge or lower each day before re-charging it may start doing damage to your battery cores.

Spreading that out over your 3-5 day camping trip will result in a dead battery if you pull 13AMPS from it each night. By replacing the 13AMPS with your single 80WATT solar panel during the high SUN Day will put back around 5-6AMPS per hour so that may replenish it all back for you as you can probably count on 5-6 hours of high sun each day.

All of this is somewhat hypothetical but gives you an idea what to expect. You really need to watch your 12VDC battery level and when it drops to 12.0VDC go disconnect the negative terminal until you can re-charge it somewhat. The other downside of just re-charging alittle at a time is the battery will not ever get back to its full performance state unless you re-charge back up to the 90% charge state each time. Continuing to do this will also start doing internal damage to your battery. In other words the first time using your batter it will produce lets say 25AMPS for 140 minutes (or 2.3 hours) then you run it down to around around 0% state of charge and only re-charge back up to 50% or 60%. The next time you start using the battery it may not give you 25AMPS for 140 minutes since it wasn't re-charge back up to the 90% state of charge level. It may only give half of that number etc... Then you get it down to 0% charge state in just an hour or so of use... All of this will be very hard on your battery internal cores.

I am just saying it is not all that difficult to make it successful for you with some planning. Once you do this this then you never have to worry about running the battery down below 50% charge state. Doing what you want to do will not be successful for the 3-5 day trip and mark my word it will get dark on around 10PM at night when it happens haha...

Go read up on how the big battery guys do all of this with solar panels....

Lots of great info on the RV NET forum where I usually hang out...

You already have a 80WATT solar panel and a 1KW generator so just add a couple of 6VDC golf cart batteries in series, replace all of your automotive type lamps with LED lights, replace the converter/charger with a 45/55AMP smart mode converter/charger perhaps the PD4600 or 9200 series. Plan on connecting the trailer shore power cable directly to the generator main receptacle using a RV30A-15AMP adapter so your on-board converter/charger will re-charge your batteries in a quick three hour generator run time period. If you really wanted to get serious of just using the solar panels than you will need to get around 15AMPS coming from multiple panels and this may get your battery bank back to 90% charge state before the high SUN drops out in one day.

Don't forget your trailer is also your lifeline at home when the power mains go out... Not just for camping hehe...

Roy ken


Roy Ken