2009 - 2013 Embark vs. 2014 - 2018 Seneca

[solarrv]

Hi,

Can anyone answer my question as to how the 2009 - 2013 Embarks compare to the 2014 - 2018 Senecas? My understanding is the Seneca replaced the Embarks but when considering a used Super C those year Embarks seem to run about the same price as the newer Senecas. Is there a large enough difference to consider paying more for an older unit?

Additionally, what is the NADA Guide referring to when it states "Ford Cummins" when looking up the NADA suggested prices for the 2015 Seneca?

Thanks.

 

[Grumpy]

SENECA did not replace the EMBARK.

The new FREIGHTLINER version of the SENECA was already in the design stage in 2010 shortly after GM did away with the KODIAK. I think you will find not many EMBARKS were sold as they are few and far between so that is why JAYCO stopped production. The EMBARK was built on a heavier chassis (33,000/53,000) as compared to the current SENECA (28,000/41,000). The original FREIGHTLINER SENECA was only 25,500 and 33,000.

That's why you will find a well maintained EMBARK holding it's value.

 

[Les7h]

The Embark was much more high end than the Seneca ( maybe even todays Seneca ) Aquahot - I love my Truma Comfort but I would trade it for an Aquahot
In a minute - no DEF means less emission problems Les

 

[McGintys924]

My feel for this is analogous to what Les said. These had been better trucks with larger engines. I believe that they would compete with a DX3 of today or a Valencia. Having the option, I would choose an Embark (not to be confused with the new class A Embark).

Probably what Grumpy says is also true because a Seneca existed until the Kodiak chassis was D/c’d. They took a one year hiatus before returning with the Freightliner Seneca. You would want to avoid years 2012 and 2013 as they had smaller tires and no rear air suspension (came mid 2013). I cannot say what an Embark had for rear suspension.

 

[solarrv]

Thank you all for your replies. I would summarize this conversation as follows:
1) 2009 - 2013 Embarks are more high-end than the 2014 - 2018 Senecas
2) The Embarks have a heavier-duty frame than the Senecas, allowing for a higher tow capacity
3) The Embarks have a more powerful engine and transmission combination which could translate to more ease towing and traveling mountains.
4) A pre-2013 diesel engine means no DEF required and therefore possibly less emission issues
5) 2012 - 2013 Senecas had smaller 19.5" tires & wheels, and no air suspension, so consider upgrading the OEM tires & wheels and rear suspension if that year unit is appealing

Thanks again.

 

[McGintys924]

Thank you all for your replies. I would summarize this conversation as follows:
1) 2009 - 2013 Embarks are more high-end than the 2014 - 2018 Senecas
2) The Embarks have a heavier-duty frame than the Senecas, allowing for a higher tow capacity
3) The Embarks have a more powerful engine and transmission combination which could translate to more ease towing and traveling mountains.
4) A pre-2013 diesel engine means no DEF required and therefore possibly less emission issues
5) 2012 - 2013 Senecas had smaller 19.5" tires & wheels, and no air suspension, so consider upgrading the OEM tires & wheels and rear suspension if that year unit is appealing

Thanks again.

I thought I remembered that upgrading the tires on those units that had the smaller size was not possible; I could be wrong.

 

[Robbbyr]

5) 2012 - 2013 Senecas had smaller 19.5" tires & wheels, and no air suspension, so consider upgrading the OEM tires & wheels and rear suspension if that year unit is appealing.

This would be a very expensive proposition. Money likely better spent on gettig a unit that has those features.

 

[solarrv]

Ok, no to upgrading tires & wheels, and go with the 22.5" tires & wheels as they are better than then 19.5 inch tires & wheels.

Can someone explain why the larger tires are better?

 

[Robbbyr]

Can someone explain why the larger tires are better?

Larger contact patch, increased load capacity, lower revolutions per mile (less heat buildup), more robust construction. Theoretically longer life, although with RVs we tend to "time out" our tires before we wear out our tires.

Also mobile tire service entities likely have a 22.5" tire to get you back on your journey quickly, 19.5 not as common. May be the difference between a roadside repair or a tow and a wait.

 

[solarrv]

Thanks for the info on the tire sizes!

 

[PrairiePoodle]

No air suspension?

I am right in believing the 2013 Jayco Embark has no air suspension? I was talking with some friends this past weekend who said it should have…..well I’ve not ‘noticed’ an air dump switch or anything like it.

I love my coach but the ride is pretty rough. What can I do to improve it?

 

[Robbbyr]

I am right in believing the 2013 Jayco Embark has no air suspension? I was talking with some friends this past weekend who said it should have…..well I’ve not ‘noticed’ an air dump switch or anything like it.

I love my coach but the ride is pretty rough. What can I do to improve it?

Everything I have seen shows the Embark did have the Freightliner Airliner rear air suspension. Have you climbed underneath to see if has airbags? They would look very similar to this picture of a Seneca's.

If you do have the Airliner suspension there are a number of reasons it might ride rougher than normal. Incorrectly adjusted leveling valves, worn out shock absorbers, problem with air supply to the suspension, leaking air bags.

Does your suspension look like the attached picture?

 

[PrairiePoodle]

Everything I have seen shows the Embark did have the Freightliner Airliner rear air suspension. Have you climbed underneath to see if has airbags? They would look very similar to this picture of a Seneca's.

If you do have the Airliner suspension there are a number of reasons it might ride rougher than normal. Incorrectly adjusted leveling valves, worn out shock absorbers, problem with air supply to the suspension, leaking air bags.

Does your suspension look like the attached picture?

I’ll get out there and have a look - picture is very helpful, thank you!

 

[Robbbyr]

I’ll get out there and have a look - picture is very helpful, thank you!

Did you determine whether your rig has the rear air suspension?

 

[Jeep 1]

Yes, the 2013 embark has a air ride Freightliner M2, 106 chassis but it does not have an air dump valve probably because the right height would be so low on the rear that it might damage the vehicle if somebody accidentally left it down
Tom

 

[PrairiePoodle]

No switch?

But the ride is so stiff. No way to reduce the air?

 

[Robbbyr]

But the ride is so stiff. No way to reduce the air?

If the ride height is adjusted properly the ride should be compliant, not "jarring". Are you towing anything? If so, that can make it ride rougher since the bags will need to inflate more to level it out. But ultimately it is a truck chassis, so you cannot compare it to an automobile's ride.

My 2014 with the rear Airliner suspension rides much nicer than my two prior Class C units with plain leaf springs. If your leveling valves are not working properly and/or not adjusted correctly it could cause a stiff ride.

The amount of air is not user-adjustable, it soley depends on the leveling valves and how they are adjusted.

 

[PrairiePoodle]

Thank you for all of your help with this. We did find one of the height control valves had a bolt sheared off, so will replace that one for now, to limp me back up to Canada. I will have the whole setup checked out further up there. I do realize it is a stiffer chassis, but when it knocks the bolts off the toilet and pieces of trim fall off, I’m hoping something can be done lol

If the ride height is adjusted properly the ride should be compliant, not "jarring". Are you towing anything? If so, that can make it ride rougher since the bags will need to inflate more to level it out. But ultimately it is a truck chassis, so you cannot compare it to an automobile's ride.

My 2014 with the rear Airliner suspension rides much nicer than my two prior Class C units with plain leaf springs. If your leveling valves are not working properly and/or not adjusted correctly it could cause a stiff ride.

The amount of air is not user-adjustable, it soley depends on the leveling v

 

[Grumpy]

Thank you for all of your help with this. We did find one of the height control valves had a bolt sheared off, so will replace that one for now, to limp me back up to Canada. I will have the whole setup checked out further up there. I do realize it is a stiffer chassis, but when it knocks the bolts off the toilet and pieces of trim fall off, I’m hoping something can be done lol

What tire pressure are you running? Get it weighed and adjust accordingly.

 

[PrairiePoodle]

Just had the tires done before this trip, after sitting all winter……..BUT……..I have never had the rig weighed. Good point, thank you.

What tire pressure are you running? Get it weighed and adjust accordingly.