Battery Not Charging

[pconroy]

But the green sticker says that the converter has been replaced with a Progressive Dynamics converter. I don't see that in the pictures so you haven't found it yet. It should be nearby. Probably a silver box.

Agreed! You're very close. See if you can loosen a screw or three and find a component that says Progressive Dynamics on it.

See if this helps" https://www.progressivedyn.com/inteli-power-4600-series/

 

[craigav]

Regarding the testing, just set your voltage meter to the first dc setting above 12v and check the voltage at the fuse panel. Have a light handy (or open window blinds) and note the voltage and then turn off the main breaker and note the voltage again. If there is no difference then the converter is not supplying voltage to the fuse panel as you should read ~13.8 +or- a few tenths with a working converter and only battery voltage ~12.5 with a non-functioning converter. ~CA

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

Found it!

The converter, that is. Right where some suggested, in the section directly below the previously provided pictures. A photo is attached. I could not find the product number but almost sure (as dvspl surmised) it is a PD4645 or PD4645V. I can't find particulars on what is the difference but I'm thinking the PD4645V replaced the PD4645.

Here is the Installation and Operation Guide

The Operation Guide refers to a green LED. It is solid on which means the battery is fully charged. What the Operation Guide does not mention is on the main circuit board - in this picture hidden behind the large white wire next to the blue box, is a red LED that is on solid. It is marked D5. Any idea what this is?

As per craigav instructions, here are the readings I found on the panel.
Note: prior to this, the battery had been fully charged then disconnected for two days.

DC on, not hooked to shore power, Battery connections A-B: 12.5v. No voltage at connections C-D.

Hooked to shore power, Main breaker on: Same 12.5v at connections A-B and C-D.

Based on what craigav suggested, it appears the converter is not functioning. Thank you craigav.

 

[craigav]

It is a bit strange that with the shore power you have voltage at a location that didn't have voltage without shore power. I would remove and double check the fuses that are the two green 30Amp reverse polarity fuses along with all of the connection.

Also, follow this guide and in particular the very first page where you remove the 2x30A fuses and perform a voltage check with the shore power on and at the locations specified. ~CA

https://www.progressivedyn.com/wp-content/uploads/Support/manuals/4600_test.pdf

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

Thanks Craig. I was wondering if there were more tests I can do. I will do that tomorrow.

 

[dvspl]

The converter, that is. Right where some suggested, in the section directly below the previously provided pictures. A photo is attached. I could not find the product number but almost sure (as dvspl surmised) it is a PD4645 or PD4645V. I can't find particulars on what is the difference but I'm thinking the PD4645V replaced the PD4645.
[/B].

Glad you found it. Seems craigav has pointed you to the right place to check it for proper operation. Progressive says there is no difference between PD4645 and PD4645V; the V stands for "retail packaged."

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

Maybe I don't have a problem after all?

Using the PD4600-test.pdf that craigav provided, I completed the tests. While I had the 30 amp fuses out, I checked them. Both good.

Page 1 Checking the Converter Output: 14.29v on shore power, 14.3v on generator.

Page 2 Checking the Battery Connection: 13.13v on shore power, 12.5 on generator.

Everything within range. Now I'm stumped. I don't know whether to trust it or not.

For sure I'll be getting a better battery monitor than Jayco provided. Any suggestions?

 

[dvspl]

Using the PD4600-test.pdf that craigav provided, I completed the tests. While I had the 30 amp fuses out, I checked them. Both good.

Page 1 Checking the Converter Output: 14.29v on shore power, 14.3v on generator.

Page 2 Checking the Battery Connection: 13.13v on shore power, 12.5 on generator.

Everything within range. Now I'm stumped. I don't know whether to trust it or not.

For sure I'll be getting a better battery monitor than Jayco provided. Any suggestions?

That's not right. It may not specifically say it in their test, but you should get the same battery voltage on shore power and generator power. It looks like the battery is not charging on generator power. The issue could be in your ATS. You should have two inputs (shore and generator) and one output. You should test those to make sure that it's working properly. You can also open up it's case (with all 120 VAC power disconnected) to look at the connections inside. The contactors often get burned.

 

[craigav]

That's not right. It may not specifically say it in their test, but you should get the same battery voltage on shore power and generator power. It looks like the battery is not charging on generator power. The issue could be in your ATS. You should have two inputs (shore and generator) and one output. You should test those to make sure that it's working properly. You can also open up it's case (with all 120 VAC power disconnected) to look at the connections inside. The contactors often get burned.

The two tests in the PDF are made with the 2x30A fuses removed in order to measure the converter voltage independent of the battery voltage. In other words these tests are made without the converter charging the battery(s) due to the removed fuses. In that case, the battery voltage would commonly be around 12.5 volts after running the generator starter and a bit higher prior to running the starter.

All in all, it reads to me that everything is working properly and perhaps the battery itself was\is weak. I would suggest to keep an eye on the battery voltage moving forward and perhaps have the battery tested if more issues are found. I suspect the battery just got lower than expected going back to the original reported issue. ~CA

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

I suspect the battery just got lower than expected going back to the original reported issue. ~CA

That's my suspicion also. My concern is what caused the failure especially since I was running the generator for 2 hours each day. Which is why I think I need a better battery monitor so if it happens again I will know before the battery is too low.

 

[dvspl]

That's my suspicion also. My concern is what caused the failure especially since I was running the generator for 2 hours each day. Which is why I think I need a better battery monitor so if it happens again I will know before the battery is too low.

If you have FLA or AGM batteries, 2 hours/day on the generator is probably not enough to keep them fully charged. They charge much more slowly than LIFEPO.

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

If you have FLA or AGM batteries, 2 hours/day on the generator is probably not enough to keep them fully charged. They charge much more slowly than LIFEPO.

AGM = ?
FLA = ?
LIFEPO = ?

I'm so old school, all I know is lead/acid and I know those are no longer made.

What kind is this?

 

[Rodney27505]

AGM-Absorbent Glass Mat
FLA- Flooded Lead Acid
LIFEPO- Lithium Iron Phosphate

That looks like a FLA- Same batteries they have been making pretty much forever

 

[dvspl]

That's a Flooded Lead Acid (FLA) battery with a total capacity of 88 AH (amp-hrs). That means you could draw 1 amp of current for 88 hours or 88 amps of current for 1 hour from the battery. As an example, the fan for your propane furnace probably draws about 10 amps. So you could theoretically run it for just less than 9 hours before it was completely dead. Of course, the fan doesn't run continuously unless it's really cold outside. If it runs half the time, it could run for almost 18 hours before the battery would completely die. Assuming, of course, that you weren't running anything else such as lights or your refrigerator. But you don't want to let your battery get completely dead because that will greatly shorten it's life. There's a spirited debate about how low you can safely discharge it but to be safe, you should probably only discharge it to somewhere between 20% and 50% SOC.
Then you will need to run your generator to replace what you've used and get back to 88 AH full capacity (100% SOC). If your charger would put out 88 amps you could theoretically run the generator for an hour to get back to full charge. But the battery won't accept that much charge due to it's internal resistance. FLA batteries have much higher internal resistance so they charge much more slowly than Lithium Iron Phosphate (LIFEPO) batteries. Regardless of how much your charger will put out, this FLA battery will probably only accept about 10 amps of current at first, with less current as it becomes more charged. So your battery will probably need about 8 hours of charging to get to about 80% SOC and up to about 24 hours to be fully charged. That's if it's completely depleted, of course. From 50% SOC you could probably get to 80% SOC in about 4 hours. That last 20% always takes a long time so you do that when you're plugged into shore power (or solar).

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

Wtf?

I let the unit sit for two days. No shore power and DC switched off. Did some checking today.

12.8v at battery posts. Good.

Referring back to the PD4600-test.pdf that craigav provided.

On shore power:
Pg 1: 14.3v
Pg 2: 14.3v
Good

On generator power:
Pg 1: 14.3v
Pg 2: 0
Not Good

Conclusion? There is a disconnect between the generator and the converter?

Something I noticed....
There are 4 posts/connections on the board.
Two are label POS+ BATT & CONV
Two are label NEG+ BATT & CONV

In Checking the battery connection, it points to connect the POS+ BATT to the NEG- CONV. Does this sound right? At any rate, I tried both but got no voltage readings.

ADDENDUM 15 minutes later.
I inadvertently did the Pg 2 test - Battery Connection - with the fuses in. I got 14.3v. The instructions say to remove the fuses before testing. Now I am confused.

 

[Leon-JAY]

Test results

I don’t no much about the PDf test that you performed .I think you could test the batteries individually not connected to each other .hydrometer? Also you might have a problem with your transfer switch circuit or a faulty switch itself

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

I don’t no much about the PDf test that you performed .I think you could test the batteries individually not connected to each other .hydrometer? Also you might have a problem with your transfer switch circuit or a faulty switch itself

If you read through this thread, you will see that I only have one battery, and I have been testing it at the posts regularly.

Good suggestion on checking the transfer switch and circuit.

Any suggestions on what, and where is, the transfer switch? What is its function and where is it?

 

[craigav]

If you read through this thread, you will see that I only have one battery, and I have been testing it at the posts regularly.

Good suggestion on checking the transfer switch and circuit.

Any suggestions on what, and where is, the transfer switch? What is its function and where is it?

The transfer switch is what is in your earlier images that has a label stating Model ATS 301 (ATS = Automatic Transfer Switch). Its purpose is to switch between the shore power and the generator power automatically.

It wouldn't be bad though if your RV has power to 120v circuits such as the Microwave or TV when on Shore Power as well as on Generator Power (without shore power).

If you believe the battery is bad, most battery resellers can test it for you for free. In my experience though, the testing often indicates a battery that may still be good but generally not as good as it was when purchased, therefore a battery that tests out as marginal often is said to be good if under warranty and bad if not under warranty. In reality and from your reports, I suspect it is still good but by itself not enough capacity to run your RV for very long.

If you intend to use your RV often on battery power only (no shore power) then it becomes more important to consider your options with a new battery, perhaps a better battery like a Lithium LIFEPO4 and\or multiple batteries. On the other hand, if you rarely camp (RV) on battery power only then perhaps the battery you have is just fine especially if you limit your 12 volt usage.

Keep in mind that a furnace blower (if you are camping where the furnace is running often) will likely be what uses the most of your battery in overnight usage. ~CA

 

[SmokeyBear-JAY]

See my replies in blue.

The transfer switch is what is in your earlier images that has a label stating Model ATS 301 (ATS = Automatic Transfer Switch). Its purpose is to switch between the shore power and the generator power automatically. Thanks. Now that I read that, I knew that. Just too many new terms bouncing around in this old noggin.

It wouldn't be bad though if your RV has power to 120v circuits such as the Microwave or TV when on Shore Power as well as on Generator Power (without shore power). Can I rephrase that and say since all the 120v things (refrigerator, microwave, outlets, etc.) work, both shore power and generator, the ATS is probably not the problem. Don't have a TV.

If you believe the battery is bad, most battery resellers can test it for you for free. In my experience though, the testing often indicates a battery that may still be good but generally not as good as it was when purchased, therefore a battery that tests out as marginal often is said to be good if under warranty and bad if not under warranty. In reality and from your reports, I suspect it is still good but by itself not enough capacity to run your RV for very long.

If you intend to use your RV often on battery power only (no shore power) then it becomes more important to consider your options with a new battery, perhaps a better battery like a Lithium LIFEPO4 and\or multiple batteries. On the other hand, if you rarely camp (RV) on battery power only then perhaps the battery you have is just fine especially if you limit your 12 volt usage. I try not to depend on battery, even to the point of not using the lights, just a flashlight. But a better battery has been on my thoughts. What battery can I use and not make any other changes? Doesn't a LIFEPO4 require some hardware changes?

Keep in mind that a furnace blower (if you are camping where the furnace is running often) will likely be what uses the most of your battery in overnight usage. ~CA I have run the heater once or twice for a few minutes just to check it works. It does.

Back in October I was without shore power for 5 nights, 6 days. Just like the trip where I had problems (again, 5 nights, 6 days) I ran the generator a couple of hours during the day. I did not have a problem.

Question: Something just occurred to me. Would running the refrigerator on propane cause a drain on the battery? That is a difference in the two trips. I did not run the refrigerator in the first trip, did in the second.

 

[craigav]

Yes, even when running a refrigerator on propane the refrigerator will drain the battery some, not a lot per day but enough to make a difference over multiple days. ~CA