External GFI tripping

[KC1SA]

We are on our second full season with our 2013 Jayco Greyhawk 31DS. We live in on a city lot that's 50 by 130 so not a ton of room but we do ok. Our single car wide asphalt driveway accommodates the Greyhawk and our two RAV4 SUVs comfortably. Since bringing the Greyhawk home we've been plugging the coach into our garage's 115V 15A circuit. The garage is on a GFI. Over the course of the winter the garage GFI will trip, mostly on very rainy wet nights. The coach is plugged into a 15A socket and we have the Camco Circuit Analyzer tucked in the AC cord entrance on the coach and use a 15A to 30A adapter plug to mate everything up. All work good but today the coach repeatedly tripped the garage GFI. If I unplug the coach from the garage the GFI doesn't trip. If I shut all the breakers off in the coach the garage GFI will still trip. Before doing all the debugging I attributed the garage GFI of failing, so off to Home Depot I went and got a Leviton audible GFI breaker. I removed the old GFI breaker, which I found the electrician never connected the ground wire to the GFI breaker ground lug, and replaced with a new GFI breaker. Same results. Next I removed the yellow el-cheapo Camco analyzer and tried it again. Now all works well and the GFI doesn't trip. I have another circuit analyzer that the previous owner gave me. It is a 50A analyzer with surge protection. I tried that and sure enough that works perfect (yes, I have the 50A to 30A to 15A adapters all connecting stuff up).

So my question is, has anyone else had issues with these yellow Camco circuit analyzers tripping external GFI breakers? Oh, and I took mine into our house kitchen and bathroom to verify operation with those GFIs. Sure enough, trips them the instant you plug it in. It is very humid and hot here in Connecticut and was wondering perhaps the circuit board isn't conformally coated, so I ripped open the Camco unit. Sure enough, nothing is conformally coated or protected from moisture ingress.

I'm interested to hear if others have similar stories.

 

[craigav]

It is not all that uncommon to hear about some testers causing a GFCI to trip (especially cheap testers). The reason is that one of the tests (regarding the wiring of the indicator lights) is to check for voltage between the HOT and the GROUND which there really should never be any electrical device obtaining its power from the hot and ground connection as that is exactly what the gfci monitors for (that the HOT and NEUTRAL are equivalent) which is not the case when there is a connection between the hot and ground (the little test light).
I suspect some testers are better designed and the test between the hot and ground is below the threshold that the gfci trips at (which is very low). ~CA

btw, a ground isn't required for a gfci to work properly.

 

[KC1SA]

Thats what I have been reading. The nicer of my two testers doesnt trip the gfi. The camco device has 6 MOVs, three resistors and three diodes between ground, return, and hot. My guess is the resistor should have been a larger value. Next low humidity day I'll retest. Yeah, gound wire isn't required for a gfi to function, but still I an not believe an electrician didnt connect it. I knew this electrician well, not sure I'd have him do more work for me. I am a retired EE, I knew my NEC back in the '80s but spent most of my career with low voltage DC designs.

 

[craigav]

I don't know what the electrician may have been thinking however, I have read from others that by not connecting the ground to the gfci outlet in certain scenarios can prevent false gfci trips, more commonly reported from those with a freezer or refrigerator in their garage that causes the gfci to trip. ~CA

 

[Kevin Cooper]

Test the MOV’s. I’m guessing you’re getting continuity through at least one of them.
GFCI’s are supposed to trip at 5m amps.
I’m thinking water got inside it.

 

[Sully438]

We are on our second full season with our 2013 Jayco Greyhawk 31DS. We live in on a city lot that's 50 by 130 so not a ton of room but we do ok. Our single car wide asphalt driveway accommodates the Greyhawk and our two RAV4 SUVs comfortably. Since bringing the Greyhawk home we've been plugging the coach into our garage's 115V 15A circuit. The garage is on a GFI. Over the course of the winter the garage GFI will trip, mostly on very rainy wet nights. The coach is plugged into a 15A socket and we have the Camco Circuit Analyzer tucked in the AC cord entrance on the coach and use a 15A to 30A adapter plug to mate everything up. All work good but today the coach repeatedly tripped the garage GFI. If I unplug the coach from the garage the GFI doesn't trip. If I shut all the breakers off in the coach the garage GFI will still trip. Before doing all the debugging I attributed the garage GFI of failing, so off to Home Depot I went and got a Leviton audible GFI breaker. I removed the old GFI breaker, which I found the electrician never connected the ground wire to the GFI breaker ground lug, and replaced with a new GFI breaker. Same results. Next I removed the yellow el-cheapo Camco analyzer and tried it again. Now all works well and the GFI doesn't trip. I have another circuit analyzer that the previous owner gave me. It is a 50A analyzer with surge protection. I tried that and sure enough that works perfect (yes, I have the 50A to 30A to 15A adapters all connecting stuff up).

So my question is, has anyone else had issues with these yellow Camco circuit analyzers tripping external GFI breakers? Oh, and I took mine into our house kitchen and bathroom to verify operation with those GFIs. Sure enough, trips them the instant you plug it in. It is very humid and hot here in Connecticut and was wondering perhaps the circuit board isn't conformally coated, so I ripped open the Camco unit. Sure enough, nothing is conformally coated or protected from moisture ingress.

I'm interested to hear if others have similar stories.

A normal GFI is designed to trip at 1/5000th of an amp. This is to protect you from electrical shock.
The National Electral Code does not require a GFI to be installed in a Garage for electric door openers.because. In the winter when you park a vehicle with snow on it the moisture from the snow melting will cause the GFI to trip.
Also some GFI's will trip if you have a very small faulty transformer in your RV.
Make sure all appliances are unlocked plugged.
I hope this helps.

 

[soonergypsy]

Folks, if it has MOV'S it has some form of surge protection (MOV AND OR SAD) are the protection. The both are sacrificial. The do go out in time with either a bunch of small surges and or a big one. When the fail they will the will shunt to ground. This is why the GFI is tripping sensing this shunt.
I just lost a 50amp bully dog in a lightning hit a couple weeks ago. Thankfully the device is designed to replace the MOV's for around $50 versus $400 for a new one. Some devices still pass power to the right but unprotected.

 

[KC1SA]

I traced the culprit to one of the outlets in the coach, the one under the dinette that has two USB charging ports in it. It works most of the time but when moist out it trips the garage GFI. Not sure if this was stock or not, no name brand which looks like purchased on Amazon. I replaced with a Leviton and that worked fine but then it too tripped the GFI. Soooo, nixed the GFI in the garage. Never had one in the garage for 35 years until an electrician did some work on our addition a few years back and he installed the GFI in the garage. Out it went. What did the world do before the 60's when these things came into being?

 

[Kevin Cooper]

For your question about what the world did before the 60’s when these came in being, people got shocked and some got electrocuted. Suggest you never use any electrical item while barefoot on a concrete floor.
Your moist out situation would not apply to anything inside unless you have leaks. Suggestion, have you taken the cover off of the receptacle that is outside on the RV? Does your shore cord attach to a receptacle outside? Have you checked that for water entrance or discoloration? Where is your dogbone located when on 15a shore power? Is it getting wet? When shore is plugged into house receptacle, is it indoor or outdoor?
Always be safe. The life you save may just be your own.

 

[KC1SA]

It is not all that uncommon to hear about some testers causing a GFCI to trip (especially cheap testers). The reason is that one of the tests (regarding the wiring of the indicator lights) is to check for voltage between the HOT and the GROUND which there really should never be any electrical device obtaining its power from the hot and ground connection as that is exactly what the gfci monitors for (that the HOT and NEUTRAL are equivalent) which is not the case when there is a connection between the hot and ground (the little test light).
I suspect some testers are better designed and the test between the hot and ground is below the threshold that the gfci trips at (which is very low). ~CA

btw, a ground isn't required for a gfci to work properly.

Did lots of debugging over thepast month. Came down to the one 3 foot piece of romex from the junction box underneith th dinnette seat running to the ac outlet under the dinnette seat. Disconnect that one interior socket and the gfi never trips ever. Connect it back up and the gfi will eventually trip. I thought it was the socket with the dual usb port charger built in (imports from China) but even a Leviton does the same eventually. A little leakage here, there, everywhere. I am not concerned about the toater in the bathtub thing, spent my life (career) around 5V to 575V and still here. Common sense. Going into a garage barefoot and touching anything electrical is a bit dumb. Learned early on watches and rings off, one hand in your pocket, sneakers or rubber sole shoes. I have a GFi in the house for our radient heat floor, turn on my ham radio gear and que up anything on 40m band and it trips the GFI. Honeywell, who makes the GFI, was less than helpful. GFI device are made as cheaply as possible with zero shielding and some not so well designed. So my work around was getting rid of the garage GFI. The RV still has a GFi in it and eventually I will put a GFI just for the fridge.

 

[Kevin Cooper]

Did you try changing the USB receptacle to a standard receptacle? Electronics can cause GFCI tripping issues.

 

[KC1SA]

Yes, and that was how I concluded some of these really neat things like USB AC outlets are poorly designed.

 

[Kevin Cooper]

Some electronics do not play well with a 5mA GFCI. For instance, LED lights in a home on a GFCI will most likely cause nuisance tripping of the GFCI.

 

[KC1SA]

If I have learned anything, I am not the only person to have problems with GFI outlets that most likely are not safety issues.