Major Kiwi 23b Repairs

[BNear]

I may be new to trailer repairs but I'm not new to computers and web forums, it'd be cool to know you've been logged out before you attempt to publish your thread don't ya think??

Anyways. 2003 Jayco 23b Kiwi with roof, ceiling and floor water damage. I also need to replace both bunk ends. I want to to tackle this on my own but am not at all the handiest guy. I am not going to list , again, all the materials I think I need to do the job nor am I going to go into huge detail about where the damage is, it doesn't matter as I want everyone to assume I am doing a full replacement of the roof (keeping the current rubber though), the ceiling and the floor plus both bunk ends. I plan to reuse as much of the current hardware as I can. Truthfully, I won't know the extent of the damages until I tear it down. The damages were in part done over time and expedited through a very long and heavy 2013/14 Canadian style winter that we've not seen since I bought the trailer new in 2003.

- If anyone has had similar experience with the a similar or exact model and knows the steps, practices and tools I need to get these things done, any and all advice would be greatly appreciated even from multiple sources; for example, tips and tricks to removing cabinets, trim pieces, moldings, the tub in the bathroom and so on. What worked best for others that have previously tackled this, what I should avoid to not have the headaches others have had and so....

Thanks people and sorry for being kinda snappy, I've been trying to post this for 5 hours now between typing, stepping away to make supper and then having to start all over again because I've bee auto logged off but didn't know it. That sucks really huge!

As the advice pours in (I hope) I will expand on questions I have and hopefully will calm down from my current aggravated state.

 

[Crabman]

In order to stay logged on, simply click on the "remember me" box when logging in.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

If your 2003 Kiwi has the TPO roofing material with the fleece backing, I would consider replacing it with one of the newer "none-fleece" materials, because the fleece backing will wick moisture all over the wood roofing structure (if it hasn't already). Jayco used this particular TPO roofing material around the 2003 to 2007 model years and Jayco did have some issues with it when addressing water leak warranty claims (mine did).

Just food for thought....., especially if you plan to keep the Kiwi after making your repairs.

Bob

 

[BNear]

Hey Crabman, good to know. It was very frusterating

 

[BNear]

I thought the rubber was EDMP but I am now thinking it may be the felt backed TPO, I won't know for sure until I tear the thing apart. I am still hopeful that I can save it. Are there any recommendations about its reuse; should I consider cleaning and resealing the entire rubber when I put things back together? Obviously though, if the rubber is in too sad a state, I will replace it with the current TPO offerings.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

During the time frame I referenced in my earlier post Jayco used both the EPDM (rubber) and TPO (thermo plastic) roofing materials. I preferred the TPO because it was a tougher material, but the fleece backing was a no-go so I replaced mine with EPDM material (7 years ago).

Jayco now uses at least three different roofing materials, depends on the model.

I have my reservations that you will be able to re-use the existing TPO roofing because it's glued down, may damage the material trying to get it off.

If I'm not mistaken, the Kiwi 23B has a fairly flat roof and as the years go by the weight of the roof A/C unit tends to allow water to puddle around it. Since you are repairing the roof I would look into re-enforcing the roof structure around the A/C.

Again, just throwing some ideas around.

Bob

 

[BNear]

Hey Bob, I need any ideas I can get as I'm not the handiest with this type of project. The Kiwi 23b does indeed have a flat roof, I'd love to modify that to be rounded but that's a major project I don't feel I need to consider. Because the wood rot is quite extensive, I'm hoping that the rubber will detach easy enough but I am planning to replace all the wood anyways so I may be able to remove the rubber and clean it off, we'll see. I will definitely reinforce the area around the A/C as I know for sure it has suffered a lot of sage just in that area

 

[Ustabslim]

I restored/modified lots of hot rods in the past. I've spent thousands. I finally figured out it tons cheaper to buy one ready to go that someone else did.
I also figured out its cheaper to buy a nice used 12-14 year old camer that needs no repairs than repair an old camper. With as much damage as you have no way would I send all that time and $$$ when it's much cheaper to replace.

 

[BNear]

I know it sounds like a lot of work, I don't actually think I'll need to do all of it but I just want as much info as I can get as to steps to take and things to look out for. I'm starting simply by assessing the roof situation, if that turns out to be less work than I anticipate, I'll go from there. I certainly don't want to dump money on something that likely isn't worth it but I at least want to try a few repairs to see what's worth doing and what can simply be left alone

 

[BNear]

I will be replacing the current roof rubber with new TPO and am looking to go with TPO used for commercial/residential application. I have found some from a local supplier that is at .45 mil but I will need to use a heat gun to weld the seam as the only lengths available are 6' x 100'. The process looks to be fairly simple and should yield a 100% water tight seal. Not sure of the cost yet but if it is at least half that of the RV dealers $489.00 + tx, I'm thinking it may be worth it.

What do you guys suggest?

 

[Ustabslim]

I install septic tanks on occasion and I get that rubber stuff ..last for ever...at septic supply house. 30 ft wide by 2-300 ft long. Only buy what you need. We also use it in shower stall floors. It's used to make large water ponds and used to line large acres big sewage ponds. They have a glue for necessary seams. RV top would only be $120 or so.

 

[BNear]

I install septic tanks on occasion and I get that rubber stuff ..last for ever...at septic supply house. 30 ft wide by 2-300 ft long. Only buy what you need. We also use it in shower stall floors. It's used to make large water ponds and used to line large acres big sewage ponds. They have a glue for necessary seams. RV top would only be $120 or so.

Hey Tex, I had already had that suggested and loved the idea but all I can find is black, do you know if it also comes in at least grey?

 

[Ustabslim]

Never seen grey...paint it.

 

[BNear]

Never seen grey...paint it.

I may consider your suggestion, the cost for commercial TPO is going to be just under $550 after tax, that's for enough to do 600 Square feet and includes the adhesive, not bad but.... it's a 6' x 100' roll minimum and I will need to use a heat welder to close the seams. I'm sure it won't be a big deal but I would prefer a full layer and the cost is basically the same as the actual DIMs offered by the RV dealership.

I could go with the pond liner/septic bed liner and use Dicor roof sealant to turn it white.

 

[Ustabslim]

It will be your last roof. I recently installed a 20 x 26 ft piece over a porch that's over a living area. Put under the siding as the flashing. It's poured several times since then. No leaks.

 

[BNear]

I'll weigh the options and see what happens. I'm trying to get the actual TPO if I can because I do want to sell the trailer but obviously cost is going to be a factor given the amount of work I want to do before I do sell. If I can get the TPO in a length I need and not have to go for the full 100' roll, that'd put the price in the range I'm budgeting for. We'll see...

 

[BNear]

Well the work began over the weekend (Sept 07) and so far I have removed the A/C unit, all roof vents and pulled up the TPO on the tail of the trailer. I have found that the A/C gasket did leak but not because it was loose, it leaked because it was not installed correctly at the factory and the first time it became an issue was during the very harsh winter (2013 - 2014). Prior to this and since the trailer was purchased new in 2003, the winters here have not been particularly harsh like this one was so the snow load and ice was never a concern. Anyway, the good news is the TPO is still in amazing shape so I may not need to replace it but I will definitely need to replace all the the wood on the roof. The trailer has 1/4" plywood on it so I guess that'll be what I replace it with.

Stay tuned!!

 

[Crabman]

I know its easy to spend someone else`s money but I would probably replace the roof material while I had everything torn down since it is a considerable undertaking. There are places you can buy the material in 9'6'' ft widths and have cut to length.

Just one example,
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-roofs/epdm-rubber-roof-systems-38-1484.htm

 

[BNear]

An update on the progress. I've only had a few hours a couple of nights a week to work on the trailer but I've managed to accomplish a lot.
for the 2003 Jayco Kiwi 23b, the roof and ceiling are a one piece constructed which means the entire roof needs to come off either way in order to repair it as everything is bonded by glue making it impossible to just replace sections without damaging surrounding areas when removing the damaged spots. In my case the whole roof is damaged and some of the ceiling.
At this point the roof it's ready to be lifted off after having done everything to free it from the sidewalls, the overhead cabinets, the bathroom walls and the refrigerator enclosure.
So far the cost has been reserved to just the tools I've needed to get this far; heatgun, scrapers and Robertson screw bits.
To replace the materials in the roof, the cost will hit about $400 for plywood and styrofoam for the entire ceiling and roof. From there I'll need to add in the cost for the ceiling covering, screws and adhesives. I'm thinking that the roof itself should come in under $1000 without replacing the TPO.
I'll keep you all up to date.

 

[BNear]

I contacted Jayco for blueprints and they sent me the wrong ones, I had to make my own so the result was that I needed to tear the roof apart to find all the wire channels, backing plates, proper construction of the structure itself and placement of everything that is buried inside the roof. I have tons of pictures and measurements too. I hope to post as much as I can when I am done with the roof.
As for the floor, that's likely going to be on hold until next fall because the walls will all have to be jacked up so that the floor structure can be done. It's exactly the same construction as the roof.