Replacing stock IOTA converter with Magnum Energy MSH3012M converter/inverter.

[Big Sky-JAY]

We've decided to replace our stock converter charger on our 2007 26BHS with a new converter/inverter. Does anyone have experience doing this and/or have any advice on this procedure?

 

[Grumpy]

Are you thinking about an inverter/charger vs an inverter/converter. I have never seen or head of an inverter/converter only an inverter/charger. I think if an inverter/converter was available many motor-home manufacturers would be using them in lieu of seperate converters and inverters.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

The Magnum Energy MHS series is an Inverter/Charger, so I don't believe (???) it would be a direct replacement for an existing IOTA Converter/Charger.

Last year I up-graded my existing 2005 Jayco IOTA Converter/Charger (2-stage) with a Progressive Dynamics PD9245 Converter/Charger (4-stage). I have yet to add an Inverter to my TT.

In my TT the IOTA converter/charger was mounted to the back of the Load Center (breaker/fuse panel), so I left the IOTA in-place. I simply disconnected the IOTA wiring and connected new wiring from the PD9245 into the Load Center. I located the PD9245 close to the Load Center. My IOTA can still be used as a back-up. Your 2007 TT may have the IOTA converter/charger as a stand alone (not mounted to a Load Center), in this case it's a simple R&R.

Reference: http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?2512-Converter-Charger-Upgrade&highlight=converter%2Fcharger

Bob

 

[Big Sky-JAY]

Grumpy, can you help me understand? I was thinking the inverter/charger would replace the converter. I'm off on that it sounds like. Would the stock converter remain in place? I guess I'm confused on the components.

 

[Grumpy]

Since Rustic Eagle (Bob) has already started the process he would probably be best to answer your questions, but yes there is a difference between a converter and a charger. Also for a 3000 watt inverter you would need a large bank of batteries. My 1800 watt requires 4 to properly operate.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

Since Rustic Eagle (Bob) has already started the process he would probably be best to answer your questions..... snip

Grumpy (and others) please feel free to jump in at any time and add to the discussion, because I'm not that familiar with the Magnum Energy, Inc., products.

Bob

snip..... Would the stock converter remain in place? I guess I'm confused on the components.

The standard RV OEM converter/charger changes A/C power to D/C power, and also charges the batteries. An "inverter" is usually an add-on product to the standard converter/charger electrical system, because the inverter has the ability to change D/C power to A/C power......, thus why member 'Grumpy' was referencing a larger battery bank (D/C power source) to operate an inverter.

All the 'inverter' installations that I have seen the standard converter/charger remains within the electrical system, but there are specific wiring requirements for these two products to work effectively with each other. Hopefully someone will chime in that has worked with the MSH series inverter/charger.

During the last couple of years, many RV manufactures have upgraded their standard OEM converter/chargers to what is referred to as "smart" converter/chargers. The upgrade focus has been on the charger's ability to charge the battery(s) faster and better managing voltage input into the battery (longer battery life). The older converter/chargers were 2-stage units, the newer units are 3-stage and 4-stage units.

It's very possible that your 2007 Jayco is a 2-stage converter/charger, so up-grading to a newer unit in most cases would be beneficial for one's battery management.

Again, I'm not familiar with the Magnum Energy MSH Inverter/Charger series products.., thus I question if it also has the ability to change A/C power to D/C power when connected to shore power.

Bob

 

[Rustic Eagle]

Well, did a little digging......, and if I'm reading the following thread link correctly, an Inverter/Charger can replace a Converter/Charger. It appears that a "inverter/charger" product has more capability over a plain "inverter'" then just charging the batteries. Would never have guessed that it could also provide A/C power throughout the RV as well (I'm assuming that this applies connected to shore power as well).

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f449/converter-charger-vs-inverter-charger-112889.html

Looks like I'm going to learn something new here!

To the OP: Your thread my become a learning tool for some of us

Bob

 

[Grumpy]

I'm only familiar with the normal converter/charger (PD9280) which is what came in the MH (200 as well as the Xantrex 1800 inverter. The PD9280 has the built in charge wizard which adjusts the charge needed. I leave the MH plugged in 24/7 at home and have added very little water to the batteries in 5 years. The Xantrex has the pass through feature so the outlets connected to it are "live" with the inverter on or off. If it is the on position it does not draw from the batteries until the shore power is disconntected.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

In reviewing Magnum Energy's MS series manual I found; "In the Standby Mode, the unit operates as a Battery Charger to convert the incoming AC power into DC power to recharge the batteries; and at the same time, automatically closes an internal AC Transfer Relay to pass the incoming AC power directly to inverter’s output to continue powering the connected electrical appliances." I guess for the inverter/charger to replace an existing converter/charger "all" the existing A/C would have to be connected to the inverter/charger.

Source: http://magnumenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/64-0007-Rev-B-MS-Series.pdf

One thing I would suggest to the OP would be to contact Jayco directly (have VIN handy) and request the electrical diagrams for his particular TT, may be a good to have as a reference. Also, contacting Magnum Energy, Inc., one may find that they have some installation "how-to's" for the DIY's.

Bob

 

[Grumpy]

If it was done as a total replacement then some sort of fuse panel would be needed or individual fuses added to each 12 volt circuit along with a terminal board.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

For future thread reference, here is the manufacture's manual for the actual inverter/charger (MSH3012M) that the OP is referencing:

http://magnumenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/64-0058-Rev-A-MSH-M-Series_Web.pdf

 

[WIBadger-JAY]

The OP should first determine his/her energy demands before embarking on an inverter. The Magnum Energy inverters are excellent products. However, as Grumpy mentioned, it is generally recommended that you have a large battery bank for these larger inverters (eg, at least a four battery bank). There are, of course, inverters that don't require large battery banks, but again, it all depends upon your anticipated energy demands (ie, wattage and time). If all you want to do is run a computer or a led television when away from shore power, a smaller inverter incorporated into the usual, smaller battery system will suffice. As I write this response, I don't have the time to provide any sample energy calculations that would enable you to determine the proper inverter size, but I'd be happy to do so at a future date if needed.

Just so that we're all on the same page, a converter does two things: it (i) converts the incoming AC current into DC; and (ii) it charges your battery bank. An inverter may do two things, too: (i) it inverts DC into AC (ie, it takes your battery "juice" and inverts it into AC for those devices such as a microwave that can't run on DC); and (ii) it may charge your battery bank when you're connected to shorepower (but will depend upon the inverter make/model).

With respect to replacing your IOTA converter, is your converter, as asked by Rustic Eagle, hard-wired directly to your power panel? In other words, is your converter plugged into an electrical outlet or do the power wires go directly to the power panel? Jayco hard-wired all IOTA converters directly to the power panel, and at some point (I don't recall the date), I think it discontinued that practice (at least with those IOTA converters employed around the mid-2000s). As Rustic Eagle stated, if your converter is plugged into an electrical outlet, you simply get a new converter and swap-out the old for the new. On the other hand, if the converter is hard-wired and not working, you are faced with two choices -- replace the converter with the same IOTA converter (not recommended) or create an outlet to plug-in the new converter.

On my 2006 TT, the IOTA converter was hard-wired to the power panel. Eventually, the converter failed. I replaced it with a new converter where I created/installed an electrical outlet to plug the new converter into. I'd be happy to provide pics of this procedure if this would be helpful for your fix.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

snip.... On the other hand, if the converter is hard-wired and not working, you are faced with two choices -- replace the converter with the same IOTA converter (not recommended) or create an outlet to plug-in the new converter.....snip

The last time I checked with IOTA (2-years ago), the only replacement IOTA DLS converter/charger they provide for mounting to the back of the Load Center was the same 2-stage unit. I agree, I don't recommend as well (IOTA wasn't planning on offering a 3 or 4 stage replacement for the Load Center).

Alternative: If the OP has the stand alone IOTA DLS 2-stage converter/charger, then look for a dual voltage jack on the unit (similar to a phone jack). If it has one then I would consider adding the IOTA IQ4 (IQ4 controller around $20), this plug-in will up-grade the IOTA DLS 2-stage unit to a 4-stage unit. (Note: The dual voltage jack was not provided on the IOTA converter/chargers that were mounted on the back of the Load Center).

http://www.iotaengineering.com/iq.htm

If the above alternative is a go..., then the focus could be on a "inverter" (in lieu of a pricey "inverter/charger" combo).

Just a thought.

Bob

 

[Big Sky-JAY]

Thank you to everyone that has posted on this thread. I appreciate all of the advice. We have chosen the MSH3012-M model because we are very high energy hogs. We power a 40" TV in the living room, a 24" in the bedroom on a DirecTV satellite system and my wife requires use of her CPAP all night. We currently use a 4-pack of 6-volts in series/parallel & a Xantrex Pro-Sine 1000 watt. We began giving some consideration to a solar array to help with recharging. The current process is to start up the Yamaha 3000 watt connected to a 30-amp charger. I'm tired of the noise and inconvenience to others. In reading Handy Bob's blog on solar I determined our charging system was very insufficient. Prior to moving forward with what we feel would be the appropriate solar array set up, we wanted to make sure we fully understood our actual consumption. We purchased the bogart engineering trimetric 2025-RV meter, and we are waiting to receive our Magnum Energy MSH3012-M. We plan to install these, remove the Xantrex and see what our usage per day/week is while camping, to best build the appropriate size solar array. My initial thought was that the inverter/charger would replace the IOTA (which is integrated into the load center). I'm now thinking we'll need to place it in front of the load panel and disconnect the charging feature of the IOTA? I'll write to Jayco for the wiring schematic diagrams and consult with both IOTA & Magnum Energy before we design this. I'm also wondering if 4 batteries will be enough, or if we should look at a 6 battery set up. Thanks again and if you have other thoughts please share them. Thank you.

 

[Big Sky-JAY]

WIBadger,

Thank you for your comments. We have calculated our usage and use a set up of 4, 6-volt batteries to feed our consumption. The issue is we are not able to recharge fully what we consume each day, I believe a large part of that recharging insufficiency lies with our method of using a farm/ranch 30 amp charger plugged into our generator. We simply can not get the voltage adjusted high enough to fully recharge each day. My hope is a solution combined of solar panels and a better charging system will help solve that. Initially I'm thinking we'd upgrade the charging system, then monitor our use for a season to determine what size solar array we realistically need to help supplement or maybe even replace having to use the generator. The current IOTA is hard wired into the load panel and it is currently working fine.

 

[Rustic Eagle]

I don't know if it would be a more effective charger then what you presently use, but I use a Black & Decker 40amp smart charger connected to my genny and it does a great job with my battery bank (2-6V deep cycle).

Black & Decker VEC 1093 DBD: http://blackanddecker.com/power-tools/VEC1093DBD.aspx

On Edit: As you mentioned, I also installed the TriMetric 2025-RV a few years ago, I think you will like the wide range of data it can provide.

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?2528-TriMetric-Battery-Monitor-Install&highlight=Trimetric

Bob

 

[Big Sky-JAY]

As you mentioned, I also installed the TriMetric 2025-RV a few years ago, I think you will like the wide range of data it can provide.

http://www.jaycoowners.com/showthread.php?2528-TriMetric-Battery-Monitor-Install&highlight=Trimetric

Bob[/QUOTE]

Bob, I was looking at some other threads and saw your install pics before. Thank you for sharing those. I haven't installed mine yet and I've been finding all kinds of approaches on how to best install the shunt. The issue with the standard battery charger versus the Magnum Energy is that the Magnum Energy will allow for you to set the voltage at a higher rate to achieve a true full charge. Solar Bob is the one I'm getting this from and his logic makes sense. Standard battery chargers will not allow us to reach battery manufacturers recommendations on the voltage for a full charge. "Battery manufacturer’s specifications say that a standard 12 volt wet cell battery needs to be charged to between 14.4 to 14.8V and then held there for some time before it will be fully charged." - Handy Bob
If you are up for a good read, click on this link and tell me what your thoughts are on Bob Shearer's writings.

http://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/

 

[Rustic Eagle]

The newer 3 stage & 4 stage RV converter/chargers have a higher voltage charge rate then the older Jayco IOTA 2-stages, so they do charge the batteries a little faster (@ 14.4 volts). I'm not familiar with the Magnum inverter/charger and what kind of peak charging voltage capability it has.

Yeah, "solar Bob's" write-ups have been around awhile and do provide some good insight.., but never hurts to "speak" directly with some other RV technical/product savvy sources as well just to increase your project comfort level (i.e.; Best Converter, AM Solar, etc.).

Bob

 

[Big Sky-JAY]

I agree.

 

[Big Sky-JAY]

Our new Magnum Energy MSH3012-M arrived today! I'm excited for Spring to get here so we can get started. I'll be sure to post pics in the MODS section once I start the project. We are going solar but in phases. This year we're installing the new inverter and seeing how it does with only 440AH for a battery bank.

Next year I'm fairly certain we'll add two additional batteries (going from 4 to 6, 6-volts). Based on what I've read, we'll likely end up installing 3 panels, as close to 660 Watt's as we can get (non-shaded roof space allowing) and a Morningstar 60 amp MPPT charge controller. From what we've estimated we consume about 250-300 AH's per day when camping with the whole family. Using the 30 amp charger mentioned above with the generator just doesn't quite get it. We are down to 50% of our bank by day 3 or 4 at best. My hope is the Magnum will provide a better charging system.

F.Y.I. - Jayco was very quick (same day) about providing me with both the 12-volt and 110-volt schematics for our trailer. I haven't discussed anything with IOTA yet on how to integrate the Magnum unit but I'll be speaking with both manufacturers before I begin. Thank you to everyone for posting your comments and suggestions! I really enjoy this forum.