Seneca cap interior failures

[MD3-JAY]

I’m sure everyone has read about the exterior screws on the cap backing out but you might want to check the interior also.
The cap is held to the sides on the cab by three screws. All were backed out all the way and not even threaded into the cab at all. I have three separate areas I can also see daylight. One of which is just wide open.
Also no insulation in here.
I’ll pull the drivers side panel next.

Disappointed is putting it mildly....

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[Rustynuts]

I plan on opening up these areas along with the outside cap seams this winter and fixing things before I have issues. Those screws into the cab are not only loose, but it looks likes a lot of movement as the holes are wobbled out.

 

[MD3-JAY]

Driver’s side pics here. Bolts are all tight but you can see daylight through in couple places.

I’m going to seal all these gaps, stuff in some loose insulation and put it back together. See how it holds up....


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[Rustynuts]

Here are a couple production shots if it helps at all....this area is defiantly lacking in quality and design. I have 2 thoughts on this, do you try and seal it as much as possible and if moisture gets in, it’s trapped in there to do damage? Or do you leave the panel gaps like they are but block off this to the coach body so that any moisture can run down the back of the cab and out the bottom....something I will have to decide once I open mine up and see in person. This area is a place of a lot of flex as those 3 screw holes are wallowed out and many hve reported having this fixed under warranty because of squeaks and say there were only 3 screws, so it must be these 3 that they are talking about. Unfortunately on my RB we have the tv/fireplace cabinet I have to remove to get to ours.

 

[Rustynuts]

I straightened your pics out, it’s hard looking at them sideways I have found if you crop your pics ever so LS lightly and save them the forum will post them correctly.

 

[MD3-JAY]

Thank you for adjusting the pics.... it is easier to view like this.

Here’s what I did :
I replaced the three loose screws with larger screws.
I used a bunch of flexible sealant inside around the tops and top edge and then stuffed some insulation loosely in there. I did not do anything at the bottom.

I agree with your thought in the movement and moisture.
We will see how this works out...


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[Rustynuts]

Thank you for adjusting the pics.... it is easier to view like this.

Here’s what I did :
I replaced the three loose screws with larger screws.
I used a bunch of flexible sealant inside around the tops and top edge and then stuffed some insulation loosely in there. I did not do anything at the bottom.

I agree with your thought in the movement and moisture.
We will see how this works out...


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Did you do anything where the upper cap and lower section comes together? I have read this seam can be poorly fastened.

 

[MD3-JAY]

The cab seam had two screws on both sides. Both were tight. Also had excessive amounts of an adhesive between them.
I was thinking bolts and large fender washers but everything looked good so I left it for now.


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[MD3-JAY]

well... I put in three larger screws and one trip later :

bottom screw is backed out and stripped.
middle screw is loose but still in the threads.
top screw is still snug.

Thinking I need some sort of adhesive in between the cab and the cap ?
Maybe some Gorilla glue construction adhesive ?
Thinking more screws also ?

Anyone else have any ideas ??


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[Drv-JAY]

Im not a structural engineer so take this thought process for face value(free). I would not think more screws is the answer. This area where the cab meets the house likes to twist and move under torque from engine and road undulations. Our little ISB wont cause much torque induced twist but some does happen. If your not sure what I mean by twist. Look a loaded semi cab when it takes off from a start, the cab lifts and torques to the right. More obvious due to greater torque and load weights involved.
I would think a Polyurethane based adhesive that secures cab and cap together but allows for movement would be better suited to accomplish end goal. SikkaFlex would probably have a product with the characteristics desired or a similar adhesive/caulk company.
This issue is why Newmar has the floating cab design, albeit at an extreme price difference.
Not sure how the Dynamax rigs or smaller Renegade Valencia's deal with this transition. I would think it would be similar to our Seneca/Accolade attachment means i.e. mechanical fasteners.

 

[msherw]

I think the 'flexing' hunch is correct given the larger cab to box connection (different from the Hawks?) and the big Diesel engine with huge torque.

Regardless I am very troubled for you Seneca owners after the investment you made. Thought Jayco had this figured out for the big rig by now.

Rethinking my move to a Seneca in 2023.

 

[Rustynuts]

I finally opened up the drivers side, I wasn’t having any noise or squeak from this side but was easy to pull the 4 screws as the passenger side has a cabinet I have to remove. I found the drivers side in much better shape than yours and everything was tight and sealed up good. The joint where the upper cap and side corner cone together was screwed tight and had some sort of adhesive between them. I had 4 screws down the side into the cab and I can’t tell by your pics but it looks like they might have added a flange to screw into the upper bunk deck, yours has weatherstrip covering it. Looking at the corner to cab attachment, it also looks like there may be some adhesive/sealant between the pieces, tapping on the fiberglass panel it sounds very solid. Just going to add a little more spray foam at the base and throw some insulation in there and call it good. When I get caught up on things, I’ll open up the passenger side.

 

[MD3-JAY]

My driver's side was attached solid, never loose. It needed some sealant to fill open gaps and I did add insulation. At least it was solid and not moving.

The passenger's side was and still is the problem. It keeps working loose.
I can only add "bigger" and more screws so many times. It keeps stripping the screws.

Not sure what my next move is going to be but with it loose, squeaking and eventually begins to flap/knock... I have to come up with something.


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[Rustynuts]

well... I put in three larger screws and one trip later :

bottom screw is backed out and stripped.
middle screw is loose but still in the threads.
top screw is still snug.

Thinking I need some sort of adhesive in between the cab and the cap ?
Maybe some Gorilla glue construction adhesive ?
Thinking more screws also ?

Anyone else have any ideas ??


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Well I opened up my passenger side today. What I found is there are 5 screws through the panel into the cab, and all 5 were broken off, you can even see a hole above the top screw that probably broke during assembly and they just ran another screw in, probably why this side developed the squeak. I noticed that the passenger side panel does not fit as tight and close to the cab as the drivers side, looks like their mold shape is little off. Being all the screws were broken there was a big enough gap on the outside for me to look in there with a flashlight and there is a sparse application of an adhesive about where the screws are put in, and this had pulled away. I did a lot of searching today on the web and decided to use 3M 5200 marine adhesive sealant which is a flexible polyurethane polymer capable of retaining strong bonds during vibration, swelling, shrinking or shock and this stuff is strong, I have used it before. Since all 5 screws are broken off in the cab, I have to drill holes for new screws so I plan on drilling the holes of the broken screws out big enough to get the tip of the caulk tube in and pump in some at each broken screw point. Then when I put in the new screws, probably additional screws and dab some adhesive on the threads and run them in. Then I ordered some flexible caulk tip extensions and I will fill and pump adhesive in along the seam at the fiberglass and cab joint before I tighten all the screws down. The joint between the upper cap and cab side panel on the drivers side had a good amount of adhesive and 2 screws but on the passenger side, I can’t see any adhesive and one screw was broken, I was able to work the screw out with pliers and will try and spread this joint a little and work in some 5200 and put new screws in. This should create a strong yet still flexible joint....only time will tell.

 

[Rustynuts]

My driver's side was attached solid, never loose. It needed some sealant to fill open gaps and I did add insulation. At least it was solid and not moving.

The passenger's side was and still is the problem. It keeps working loose.
I can only add "bigger" and more screws so many times. It keeps stripping the screws.

Not sure what my next move is going to be but with it loose, squeaking and eventually begins to flap/knock... I have to come up with something.


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I think part of the issue is the passenger side does not fit the contour of the cab as good as the drivers side does. On the drivers side the screws are pulling the fiberglass tight to the cab but on the passenger side it is gapped and let’s it move around to much, breaking or loosening screws over again. I am going to try an fill the gap with the 5200 to make a tight joint once it cures.

 

[MD3-JAY]

I think part of the issue is the passenger side does not fit the contour of the cab as good as the drivers side does. On the drivers side the screws are pulling the fiberglass tight to the cab but on the passenger side it is gapped and let’s it move around to much, breaking or loosening screws over again. I am going to try an fill the gap with the 5200 to make a tight joint once it cures.

Please let me know how your fix works once you get some time to try it out..... I need to do something with mine.

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[75462]

Have you seen this video?
Do a search for: (my 2 year old Seneca 37HJ Toterhome body panel issues) in a web browser.
It shows some repair work.

I wonder if using auto-level feature and at times the front wheels come off the ground play a role in the stress at the front cap joint. The front jacks are at that joint. I now use blocks to get close to level and keep all tires on the ground. I try to approach uneven street conditions perpendicular so I don’t put a twist on the coach.

 

[Rustynuts]

Have you seen this video?
Do a search for: (my 2 year old Seneca 37HJ Toterhome body panel issues) in a web browser.
It shows some repair work.

I wonder if using auto-level feature and at times the front wheels come off the ground play a role in the stress at the front cap joint. The front jacks are at that joint. I now use blocks to get close to level and keep all tires on the ground. I try to approach uneven street conditions perpendicular so I don’t put a twist on the coach.

I have seen that video, his seemed a little worse than most but In Jaycos defense, he bought it used and who knows what the previous owner might have put it through.



I do have to agree with you that lifting the front tires off the ground has a LOT to do with this issue! If you just look where the front jacks are mounted and how much weight is in front of the jacks with the engine, transmission and axle, there has to be quite a bit of flex at that point which is right below this body/cab connection. I had a couple issue where the front wanted to lift of the ground so I always stopped the jacks and added blocks under the tires. I have since added an Air Dump system and haven't had the front tires lifting off since.

 

[Rustynuts]

I wonder if using auto-level feature and at times the front wheels come off the ground play a role in the stress at the front cap joint. The front jacks are at that joint. I now use blocks to get close to level and keep all tires on the ground. I try to approach uneven street conditions perpendicular so I don’t put a twist on the coach.

When you first mentioned this, I agreed that it might have something to do with it. The front jacks are positioned right at the cab joint.......and then I remembered this picture where the chassis is being lifted off a transport truck and if you look where the front lift strap is, at the same location the jacks are mounted......it looks like some frame flex at that point.

 

[75462]

When you first mentioned this, I agreed that it might have something to do with it. The front jacks are positioned right at the cab joint.......and then I remembered this picture where the chassis is being lifted off a transport truck and if you look where the front lift strap is, at the same location the jacks are mounted......it looks like some frame flex at that point.

Wow, that’s some frame flex!