On our trip to Florida in the Grey Hawk I noticed a certain amount of, what I will call, "Side Push" when being passed by big trucks. I have been researching the Sumo Springs not as a total cure for the side push, but do they help at all. I'm sure there are many on this forum that have installed them. My question is have they helped to lessen the push or are they a total waste of time and $250.00. Thanks in advance....
Sumo Springs...
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gunafulltime
Senior Member
I think they do. I do not know from experience with Sumos, but we put a set of Timbrens (similar product) on our truck, and they help a lot; under load, the truck stays steady and doesn't sag. The Timbrens were more than $250. I don't remember what we paid for them, but we are grateful for them.
MagnusBjorn
Senior Member
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Like others have said they do help but are not a fixall. To me they were worth the money and the easy installation was a plus.
Camper_bob
Senior Member
I'll agree with the others and say that they do help some.
But I'll add something: that is not really their purpose. Where they REALLY shine is in the "wallowing", especially during turns at slow speeds. You go from thinking you're going to roll the whole works before install, to a nice, controlled, relatively flat turn after they're in.
Really, the best thing you can do for what you're experiencing is get Caster adjusted to at least ~5.5.
Upgrading the front sway bar helps too, as does upgrading the steering damper. But all these things are not a direct fix.
Standard upgrade/mod list for the Ford E450 Chassis:
-Increase Caster. You will need to find a shop willing to install the required adjustment sleeves to achieve ~5.5 degrees. The way it's set from Ford is "within spec" for the chassis, so the shop needs to be willing to listen to you, and it's best if they have experience with it.
-Tighten rear helper springs (they are usually just "installed" and not adjusted properly)
-Upgrade front sway bar (Ford OEM is a piece of junk)
-Upgrade front steering damper
-Upgrade front bump stops; Sumo or other
-Install rear trac bar
-Upgrade front/rear shocks
You do all of that, and it's likely to drive like a Suburban. Maybe an older one, but still a LOT better than how it comes off the lot. Plus that's about everything you can do that I know of.
But I'll add something: that is not really their purpose. Where they REALLY shine is in the "wallowing", especially during turns at slow speeds. You go from thinking you're going to roll the whole works before install, to a nice, controlled, relatively flat turn after they're in.
Really, the best thing you can do for what you're experiencing is get Caster adjusted to at least ~5.5.
Upgrading the front sway bar helps too, as does upgrading the steering damper. But all these things are not a direct fix.
Standard upgrade/mod list for the Ford E450 Chassis:
-Increase Caster. You will need to find a shop willing to install the required adjustment sleeves to achieve ~5.5 degrees. The way it's set from Ford is "within spec" for the chassis, so the shop needs to be willing to listen to you, and it's best if they have experience with it.
-Tighten rear helper springs (they are usually just "installed" and not adjusted properly)
-Upgrade front sway bar (Ford OEM is a piece of junk)
-Upgrade front steering damper
-Upgrade front bump stops; Sumo or other
-Install rear trac bar
-Upgrade front/rear shocks
You do all of that, and it's likely to drive like a Suburban. Maybe an older one, but still a LOT better than how it comes off the lot. Plus that's about everything you can do that I know of.
Chute Flyer
New Member
I agree with Camper Bob. All the above was done to our 2020 24B and it made a world of difference.
Kevin Cooper
Senior Member
Personally, I would never put those on my RV. I saw an older couples fifth wheel RV that they added sumo springs to. Those things put lots of stress on the frame that was not designed for what they do. Long story short, they called their insurance company because a Tech inspected it and found that those devices had bent the frame. When the insurance showed up to inspect it, it was totaled out. They had to go and buy a new one.
I suggest that you get your front end aligned. Mis-alignment can cause your RV to jump sideways when a passing truck leans the body a little.
How would sumos put stress on the frame? They literally just replace the bumper stops
Kevin Cooper
Senior Member
Sumo springs are installed so that the body of the RV does not sway as far as standard components. Sumo springs are installed to restrict the sway, correct? If they are restricting the body from moving, that means that more pressure is on the frame at a small point where the spring is. IE, more force than it was designed to.
Plumberman
Advanced Member
I would wonder what kind of frame was in that 5th wheel. Ours was a Lippert frame. Bent the pin box up 2" under normal use. There are PICS all over the internet of the frame failures especially around the springs and the pin box. If the Sumo's were installed between the spring shackles, like a bump stop and it bent the frame I would look at the spring pack first (import steel flexes...A LOT) then check the load placement in the 5th wheel.
Kevin Cooper
Senior Member
Here is the video of the totaled RV with Sumo springs.
https://youtu.be/XtSsxr_vYvY?si=78t8U5ONYd6WKWGD
https://youtu.be/XtSsxr_vYvY?si=78t8U5ONYd6WKWGD
This has to be a cheap 5th wheel frame thing. I have never heard of a motorhome frame bending from sumo springs. If a frame can bend from those then that frame is doomed from the get go. If anyone has heard of a Ford frame , be it f53 or e450, bending from sumo springs I would really like to read about it.
Plumberman
Advanced Member
Here is one of many strings about Lippert frames. Solitude 5th wheels are built on those frames. Google Lippert Frame Failures
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f52/lippert-components-frame-failure-465928.html
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f52/lippert-components-frame-failure-465928.html
It's amazing how my original post got twisted from installing Sumo Springs on a Class C Greyhawk to accidents that happened because of their use on a Fifth wheel Camper. I can only imagine where this conversation would be if they made Sumo Springs for boats.
Camper_bob
Senior Member
Yeah, Sumo springs on a Class C are a completely different animal than on a 5th wheel.
On a Class C chassis, the mount where the bump stop is located is DESIGNED to take that impact. All you're doing with any "extended bump stop" (which is all a Sumo spring is) on a motorhome chassis is slowing down and softening that impact. It's CERTAINLY not going to be bending any frames.
As was said before, on a motor home, the install is well worth it IMO.
Plumberman
Advanced Member
Ok, so to get back on subject I have Sumo Springs on my Super C and yes they helped a lot with body roll especially when entering or leaving a driveway. However, to be completely transparent, I also replace the shocks at the same time. The stock shocks were trash.
Johnynorthland
Senior Member
Everything helps, but you can’t eliminate that type of sway, it’s physics. A track bar is your best bet!, I did everything, butI once I did the track bar there was a significant reduction of sway and tail wagging!
Off topic, but where is anyone getting Sumo Springs for$250? When I plug in my coach on the Sumo website, I get in excess of $1,500 for front and rear?
Plumberman
Advanced Member
Mine were around $370.00 for the pair. Front only.
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