Understanding the Electrical System

[rocknbil]

2001 Jayco Quest


Heater option, no electrical pump or electrical lift options


Still new to pop up ownership, I was fortunate to have this one come with a manual. Unfortunately there are some things the manual doesn't cover.


Overall system - is all of this correct?

It is my understanding that all of the interior appliances - heater igniter, lights - are normally powered by the 12V of the towing vehicle unless you have a battery supplement. We have a 650 CCA 12V marine battery which will be mounted to the tongue in a battery box and in use when camping. When running off the battery, the converter does not step up voltage so none of the 120 VAC will work (understood.)



When connecting the 120 VAC, the 120VAC outlets should now work, and I may leave the battery connected and the converter in the trailer will keep the battery charged. Is this correct? Inversely, when 120 VAC is disconnected and no appliances are on, this will not cause a drain on the battery, correct?



I would probably disconnect it anyway when packing up, the overall concern is whether I will blow anything up if I have both the battery and 120VAC connected at any given time.


Actual converter location


When we open up the sink and countertop (driver's side of the trailer) there is a wood box/protective cover in the storage compartment beneath it I have not removed (for inspection.) This is the location of the converter, correct?

GFCI

The manual goes to length to discuss the GFCI in this trailer but no indication where it is located (I haven't looked very hard. :-D ) Where is the breaker located?

 

[Kevin Cooper]

Simple explanation of the systems. Let’s do 12 volt DC first. Plug into the towing vehicle will allow some limited voltage. Your lights, water pump, gas water heater, gas refrigerator, smoke detector, and battery charging. should all work.
The only 120 volt power is IF you have an inverter. It inverts battery 12Vdc to 120Vac. Typically TV unless larger system.
Disconnect tow vehicle, and your 120 volt appliances and receptacles should work. The refrigerator, heater, water heater, and AC units all must have 12Vdc in order to work. The converter provides that power if you have no battery. It also charges your house battery if you have one.
There is no issue with leaving everything turned on while on shore power.
As far as battery drain, smoke detectors, carbon monoxide detectors stay on unless battery disconnect it in off position. Sometimes parasitic drain is caused by something that has not shut off when it is supposed to.
Hope this helps.

 

[rocknbil]

The only 120 volt power is IF you have an inverter. It inverts battery 12Vdc to 120Vac. Typically TV unless larger system.]

Thanks . . . but wait. This trailer has a 120V cord coming out of it. Are you saying I can't connect that, with an adapter like this, to any standard 102VAC supply (like a house?) I do have a 3500 watt generator/inverter (H.F. Predator,) but the plugs coming out of it are 120VAC.

I did search around for the GFCI, neither of the 120V plug ins have one, can't seem to locate it LOL

 

[Grumpy]

Thanks . . . but wait. This trailer has a 120V cord coming out of it. Are you saying I can't connect that, with an adapter like this, to any standard 102VAC supply (like a house?) I do have a 3500 watt generator/inverter (H.F. Predator,) but the plugs coming out of it are 120VAC.

I did search around for the GFCI, neither of the 120V plug ins have one, can't seem to locate it LOL

You don't have an Inverter in a pop-up and yes you can use the adapter.

 

[Kevin Cooper]

Thanks . . . but wait. This trailer has a 120V cord coming out of it. Are you saying I can't connect that, with an adapter like this, to any standard 102VAC supply (like a house?) I do have a 3500 watt generator/inverter (H.F. Predator,) but the plugs coming out of it are 120VAC.

I did search around for the GFCI, neither of the 120V plug ins have one, can't seem to locate it LOL

I didn’t say or imply that. You have a 30 amp 120 volt cord and plug. As Grumpy said, you can use the adapter. But with the adapter, you are on 15 or 20 amp branch circuit. So, you may not be able to run everything that you can on the 30 amp connection.
I strongly suggest that you get a neutral-ground bonding plug and plug it into your generator when using it on your RV. You can also buy a dog bone to plug into the 30 amp twist lock on your generator, and plug your RV cord plug into that. RV dealers or Amazon have both.

 

[rocknbil]

I didn’t say or imply that.

OK, this seemed pretty specific. You mean a step-up inverter.

The only 120 volt power is IF you have an inverter.

So, you may not be able to run everything that you can on the 30 amp connection.

"Because you can doesn't mean you should." :-D This trailer has a total of 2 12VDC dome lights, the electricity for the heater igniter, and two interior 120V outlets that will most likely only be used to charge cell phones or batteries, if that. Neither of them have the GFCI breaker I'm asking about. I may consider replacing the icebox with a small fridge but I'm doubting even the need for that.

 

[Taftcoach]

You don't have an Inverter in a pop-up and yes you can use the adapter.

I added one to mine. I sometimes miss it in my TT.

 

[rocknbil]

Okay . . one last question. I've been on the line with the Jayco dealer for an hour and they don't know! LOL . . .

This pop up has a 120v inverter with 12vDC output. There is a black and white wire going "forward" from the inverter compartment, which I presume are the same 12vDC wires at the tongue.


Battery is disconnected.


I plug in 120v, All 120 plugs work and I DID find the GFCI breaker and reset it (under the table on the side.)


With only 120v, the interior dome lights (12v) do not work. The question:

Is the intent of this inverter to supply voltage only to keep the battery charged and the battery must be connected at all times?

If this is the case this makes sense to me, just trying to make sure I understand what's happening.

 

[Kevin Cooper]

Clarification. Inverters change DC to AC. In RV, 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC. You have a converter. 120 volts AC to 12 volts DC. The small wires should be connected to a 15 amp breaker in the panel. The larger wires should be connected to the fuses side of the panel. The battery will also connect to the fuses side of the battery. The converter is a power supply and a battery charger. If no battery connected, and the RV is plugged in, all of the 12 volt items should work. Lights, water heater, carbon monoxide detector, gas heater, AC unit controls, etc.
You say the wires are going forward. Not sure where forward is.

 

[rocknbil]

Clarification. Inverters change DC to AC. In RV, 12 volts DC to 120 volts AC. You have a converter. 120 volts AC to 12 volts DC.

Correct, wrong terminology. CONVERTER not inverter. :-D

The small wires should be connected to a 15 amp breaker in the panel.

And that's where it goes astray. There is no panel or breakers, no switches, just a "box.". The large black 120V cable goes into the converter, and wires come out. From what I can read sideways and upside-down, it says "120VDC to 12VDC."


The 12VDC output is a black wire and a white wire. When I say "going forward" I mean these wires disappear under the cabinet and go toward the front of the trailer - presumably the same wires that come out at the trailer tongue and connect to the battery.

If no battery connected, and the RV is plugged in, all of the 12 volt items should work. Lights, water heater, carbon monoxide detector, gas heater, AC unit controls, etc.

That's what I thought! The only 12v items in this unit are two dome lights, gas detector, igniter for the heater, blower fan for the heater. All work on battery, none with 120 VAC connected.



Thank you for the info, I will keep looking but there are no fuses or a breaker panel that I can see. The manual explicitly says ""the converter .... transforms this energy into 12 volt DC power, which is used inside the camper. 12V DC energy supplies power to all lights . . . . " etc."

Something may be wrong with the converter, time to pull it from the trailer get out the VOM.

 

[pconroy]

Thank you for the info, I will keep looking but there are no fuses or a breaker panel that I can see. The manual explicitly says ""the converter .... transforms this energy into 12 volt DC power, which is used inside the camper. 12V DC energy supplies power to all lights . . . . " etc."

Something may be wrong with the converter, time to pull it from the trailer get out the VOM.

My "converter box" has both - 12V blade style fuses for the 12V DC stuff and breakers for the 120V stuff.

[ Your converter's other job is to keep the trailer battery charged. ]


See if you can find a make / model number on your converter. For example, mine's a Progressive Dynamics PD4060K. WFCO is a very common brand.

Once you pull the make/model, hit the manufacturer website for the docs.

FWIW - that's what should be done for all of the appliances in your popup.


Good luck!

 

[rocknbil]

See if you can find a make / model number on your converter.

Looks very generic other than on the top is CS 1200 12A (12 amp) which by a little research looks like a Centurion (???) Also from my precursory research it sounds like breakers are internal. (long history of hobby electronics, so I know how not to fry myself LOL)

Rumor has it this company no longer exists as well.


As you can see, no nothin'. :-D In the first pic you can see the 12V wires in the lower left, I'm betting when I test them I'll find no voltage when plugged in.


Being it was made pre-2001 I'm betting on capacitor plague (won't know till I open it up.)

 

[Vicr]

That is the back and top of the converter. If you look at the front of the converter there will be a cover. Open it and viola! There are the breakers and fuses.

 

[rocknbil]

That is the back and top of the converter. If you look at the front of the converter there will be a cover. Open it and viola! There are the breakers and fuses.

I was JUST about to do that but it's 110 outside . . . sun shining right in . . . after sundown, thank you! Might not have to take it apart after all!

 

[rocknbil]

Welp. Breakers on, all fuses good, took it apart, and found the problem (or at least the first one.) A blown (and of course discontinued) E13007F2 951 power transistor, note the nasty split. That'll do it.

Was totally wrong on the caps, they are all good. Just the power transistor.

Hard to even find a data sheet for this bugger. Hmm, take it in the shorts for a new converter at the RV place or find equivalent and swap out the P.T. (there are two on this heat sink, might as well do them both if I'm going to do it.)I just want to go camping and have everything work LOL

GADS I am missing the old Radio Shack right now.


- Might fix the problem, might show other problems that led to the blow up
- New one warranty, and will work
- New one expensive, transistor might be a few bucks and a wait for it to come in

 

[rocknbil]

For anyone interested I went with a WFCO 8712PB for $130. (Shown is the 8725.) Direct drop in, had to trim 1/4" from the top of the original mount. Everything finally works as expected. :-D

I will probably repair the original but so far the only replacements for the power transistors are $30 (!!!!!!!) and I need two.

 

[norty1]

That's what I would have done!