Weatherproof Plastic box on roof - How to run wires to it?

[FloHauler]

Hi all - I've searched the forum and have not found a similar question - but feel free to point me there if one exists.

I bought a 2019 Jayco Octane 209 last fall. It originally came with a GoPower 190 watt panel on the roof. The prior owner added 6 100w Renogy panels and used solar cable connectors to wire them in parallel with the original single panel. It's been operating like this for 5 years. The original solar pre-wire has an entrance on the roof. The + and - cables from the roof extend to the electrical space between the refrigerator and the electric panel by the entrance door.

As I've been reviewing the setup, I noted the prior owner should have made some upgrades. The pre-wire from Jayco is 8awg wire. 800 watts really should have 6awg, and the original 30 amp GoPower charge controller should have been upgraded to 60 amps.

I would really like to upsize the solar connection to 6awg. When I was up looking at the roof, I found a "Kraloy" pvc weatherproof box that is surface mounted. It has a PVC conduit leading into the open area between the roof and the ceiling. I can see single blue and white wires that are probably 14 or 16awg below the conduit. I thought there might be a way to route new 6awg wire from the panels using the weatherproof box for a new entry route from the roof to the electrical panel, but I'm not sure how to easily do that.

Does anyone know what the Kraloy box was intended for? Any thoughts on how to route wire in the space between the ceiling and roof? I found some videos on the Jayco roof structure and it seems there is open space above the ceiling. Getting something routed between the box and the cutouts above the existing panel would seem to be a challenge. I don't want to chop holes in the ceiling. I could always mount some "wiremold" on the surface of the ceiling and enter the wiring space next to the refrigerator. I'd rather hide the wire in the ceiling if at all possible.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[craigav]

Welcome To the Jayco Owners Forums (JOF)

I tend to have a lot of thoughts, perhaps I should cut back on Tea in the evenings.

My first thought, is that about the only way to run the wire in an area like you described is to purchase one of these tools made just for that purpose (not necessarily this specific one or from this specific seller, the link is simply an example of the type of tool I am suggesting). This tool has a thin metal tape (aka snake) that you push into where you want to start at (ie the roof in this case perhaps) and hopefully with pushing and pushing it, that it exits the ceiling somewhere that you can find the end of it (perhaps you would need to drop the interior A/C cover or ???) and if you are successful pushing it from the roof to somewhere you can locate the end of the tool, then attach the wire to the end of the "snake" and pull the snake back with the wire attached to it. ~CA

btw, I have other thoughts as well regarding the math and wiring configurations. With those thoughts, I don't believe you need to upgrade to 6 awg unless you intend to add more solar panels. I have to run take care of a few things at this time, but will try to add more information likely within the hour after I return.

QQ. Do you intend to add more solar panels? Also, what model controller is installed if you know?

Gardner Bender EFT-15 Mini Cable Snake, 15'

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[craigav]

For my other thought and to be brief, if your controller is the one I believe it is, then it is limited to 600 watts input which ~800 watts is quite a bit higher than its rating and as you mentioned if all of the panels are parallel then the amperage would be a bit much for the 8awg wiring (800W @ 12V = 66.666 amps).

Understanding that the controller can't handle all of the panels (based on specifications only) then I would replace the controller (or reduce the number of panels connected to the controller but that wouldn't be my preference).

What I would and suggest to consider is the following (and at a high level):

Replace the controller with a Victron MPPT 100/50 (you could also use the 100/30 but you would lose 20A max charging current).

Wire two sets of parallel panels,

100+100+190 = 390w
100+100+100+100 = 400w

Both of these sets would commonly output around 18~19 volts

Series those two sets which would double the voltage to just under 40 volts and at less than half the current (amperage) going down the 8awg wire to the controller. My quick math indicates that there would be around 21 amps at ~38 volts flowing from the roof top to the controller (under optimal conditions) which the 8 awg can safely support with room to spare.

With the higher voltage and lower amps now reaching the new MPPT controller, the controller will take that ~40 volts and available current and convert that back to a lower voltage with up to 50A's of charge current at a voltage common for 12v batteries and you could keep the existing 8awg wire as ~21A on an 8awg is close to half of the current that the 8awg could support. ~CA

 

[FloHauler]

Thanks for your thoughts, CraigAV.

I do have a variety of snakes/fishtapes. I'm hoping there is someone who has some experience with the weatherproof box might share their experience.

There are at least a couple videos on YouTube of how Jayco constructs the ceiling of the trailer. While the ones I saw were a bit old, it seems they glue on the ceiling material after inserting wires, etc. From some preliminary, non-destructive exploring, it didn't seem like there was an easy way into the cavities. There are speakers, the aircon, fan, etc. in the ceiling that might provide a route, but that seems like it would be a PITA.

Honestly, if I run any new wire from the panels to the controller, it might be in some white wiremould. They have some low profile products that could accommodate larger awg conductors and not look awful.

While the system has run on the existing 8awg conductors, if there was a way to easily upgrade it, I would do it. I'm upgrading to a Renogy Rover 60amp Lite. The manufacturer's spec is for 6awg at 800 watts input/output to the controller. That said, I could not find any solar cable connectors on their site that were 6awg.

I don't plan on adding any additional panels. At this point, 800 watts is about as big as you want to go @12v imho. The Controller will run at higher voltages, and I could configure the existing panels for series/parallel, but I would have to reconfigure the batteries and change the inverter, and I would not do that any time soon.

Dave

 

[craigav]

I just took a quick look at the renogy controller you referenced, it appears to be a nice one and as a quick check it appears that it can do everything I was mentioning above that the Victron would do. I would install it and wire the panels as I suggested and keep the 8awg as is. ~CA

 

[craigav]

Just another thought to add while I had the renogy controller manual open (I was looking as I may be in the market for a new controller for myself soon as well). This is the location of what I am reading and suspect is the controller you purchased.

https://store-fhnch.mybigcommerce.com/content/RCC60RVRE/RCC60RVRE-G1.pdf

Your reference regarding renogy specs to use a 6awg for 800W is likely based on 60a flowing into the controller from the panels which would not be the case here. If the solar panels are connected as I suggested the voltage the combined set of panels will output would be ~38v (well within the renogy controller specs) and 800 watts at ~38 volts is ~21 Amps (not 60). The controller can output more amps at the lower voltage than the amps coming in, so with 60A out you should use a 6awg cable from the controller to the battery(s) but having 6awg on the incoming side isn't needed and would not provide any measurable benefit on the incoming side. ~CA

from pge 5

 

[FloHauler]

Thanks for all the thoughts and advice. Sorry if I led you down a rabbit hole, but that has been my life for the past couple weeks gaining an understanding of how the prior owner installed the system. I've done a simple system with Renogy components previously as more of a hobby project.

In the Jayco, the prior owner used the recommended GoPower charge controller and Aims inverter, and combined them with Renogy Li batteries. It took me a bit to understand the components, especially since I couldn't get eyes on the inverter to start. He put the inverter under the fridge, and installed it by removing the battery box. I've had enough other projects that I did not want to pull the battery box to access the space. I did cut a hole in the face of the under fridge platform and put a grille on it to improve airflow and provide access. That allowed me to see what was going on there and better understand the system. Originally I thought the Aims inverter integrated with the GoPower controller, but I found that was not the case.

I'll definitely look at the series/parallel setup. Appreciate all the good advice.

The new charge controller arrives tomorrow. I'm hoping to see better overall system performance with the larger controller capacity and MPPT in the Renogy vs. PWM in the GoPower.

And if anyone stumbles on this thread and has ideas on wire routing through the box on the roof, feel free to add your suggestions.

Just another thought to add while I had the renogy controller manual open (I was looking as I may be in the market for a new controller for myself soon as well). This is the location of what I am reading and suspect is the controller you purchased.

https://store-fhnch.mybigcommerce.com/content/RCC60RVRE/RCC60RVRE-G1.pdf

Your reference regarding renogy specs to use a 6awg for 800W is likely based on 60a flowing into the controller from the panels which would not be the case here. If the solar panels are connected as I suggested the voltage the combined set of panels will output would be ~38v (well within the renogy controller specs) and 800 watts at ~38 volts is ~21 Amps (not 60). The controller can output more amps at the lower voltage than the amps coming in, so with 60A out you should use a 6awg cable from the controller to the battery(s) but having 6awg on the incoming side isn't needed and would not provide any measurable benefit on the incoming side. ~CA

from pge 5

View attachment 1114501

 

[craigav]

Just a word of caution before you connect your new controller.

Wattage is not what determines the AWG wire size and instead it is the amperage (watts / volts).

Currently your 30A go power and the 800W of solar is at the edge when wired at 12V (all panels parallel) and the 800W of solar would be around 60 amps, way too much for your 8awg but the reason there isn't a big problem is that the controller is not pulling all of the current that is available from the panels.

Current is limited on the existing 8awg due to only having a 30A pwm charge controller. When you connect the new 60A MPPT controller then this will no longer be the case as that controller has twice the output and if the 800W solar are all in parallel @12~14V, then the amperage input could be around double going down the 8awg with the new controller vs the existing controller, and if the 8awg is not fuse protected then it could get so hot that well... an overloaded wire is very concerning.

Consider this as if I have a 30A battery charger and a lightweight extension cord that can just barely support my 30A battery charger, and then I unplug the 30A battery charger and plug in a 60A battery charger instead. While this isn't an exact match, it is in concept very similar.

This is why I strongly suggest to double the voltage from the panels to the new controller (prior to installing the new controller) which cuts the amps in half, going from a max of ~66A to much safer 33A which the 8awg can handle. btw, without cutting the amperage in half, then you would really need a 4awg instead of 6awg as the max potential amperage would be 800 watts divided by 12 volts or ~66A (the actual amperage would likely be less but still much too much for the 8awg or a new 6awg) ~CA

 

[FloHauler]

 

[PACA]

Hi all - I've searched the forum and have not found a similar question - but feel free to point me there if one exists.

I bought a 2019 Jayco Octane 209 last fall. It originally came with a GoPower 190 watt panel on the roof. The prior owner added 6 100w Renogy panels and used solar cable connectors to wire them in parallel with the original single panel. It's been operating like this for 5 years. The original solar pre-wire has an entrance on the roof. The + and - cables from the roof extend to the electrical space between the refrigerator and the electric panel by the entrance door.

As I've been reviewing the setup, I noted the prior owner should have made some upgrades. The pre-wire from Jayco is 8awg wire. 800 watts really should have 6awg, and the original 30 amp GoPower charge controller should have been upgraded to 60 amps.

I would really like to upsize the solar connection to 6awg. When I was up looking at the roof, I found a "Kraloy" pvc weatherproof box that is surface mounted. It has a PVC conduit leading into the open area between the roof and the ceiling. I can see single blue and white wires that are probably 14 or 16awg below the conduit. I thought there might be a way to route new 6awg wire from the panels using the weatherproof box for a new entry route from the roof to the electrical panel, but I'm not sure how to easily do that.

Does anyone know what the Kraloy box was intended for? Any thoughts on how to route wire in the space between the ceiling and roof? I found some videos on the Jayco roof structure and it seems there is open space above the ceiling. Getting something routed between the box and the cutouts above the existing panel would seem to be a challenge. I don't want to chop holes in the ceiling. I could always mount some "wiremold" on the surface of the ceiling and enter the wiring space next to the refrigerator. I'd rather hide the wire in the ceiling if at all possible.

Thanks,

Dave

This may be a “no turning back” option but can you use the existing 8awg wires to fish through a pair of 6awg (or even bigger if need be) wires to the controller location? You would have to separate the connector assembly at the roof, attach the new larger wires and pull the wires from the controller area. Not sure if the existing wires are secured anywhere inside the roof or wall areas but it might be something worth looking into.

 

[Tadsher]

Hi all - I've searched the forum and have not found a similar question - but feel free to point me there if one exists.

I bought a 2019 Jayco Octane 209 last fall. It originally came with a GoPower 190 watt panel on the roof. The prior owner added 6 100w Renogy panels and used solar cable connectors to wire them in parallel with the original single panel. It's been operating like this for 5 years. The original solar pre-wire has an entrance on the roof. The + and - cables from the roof extend to the electrical space between the refrigerator and the electric panel by the entrance door.

As I've been reviewing the setup, I noted the prior owner should have made some upgrades. The pre-wire from Jayco is 8awg wire. 800 watts really should have 6awg, and the original 30 amp GoPower charge controller should have been upgraded to 60 amps.

I would really like to upsize the solar connection to 6awg. When I was up looking at the roof, I found a "Kraloy" pvc weatherproof box that is surface mounted. It has a PVC conduit leading into the open area between the roof and the ceiling. I can see single blue and white wires that are probably 14 or 16awg below the conduit. I thought there might be a way to route new 6awg wire from the panels using the weatherproof box for a new entry route from the roof to the electrical panel, but I'm not sure how to easily do that.

Does anyone know what the Kraloy box was intended for? Any thoughts on how to route wire in the space between the ceiling and roof? I found some videos on the Jayco roof structure and it seems there is open space above the ceiling. Getting something routed between the box and the cutouts above the existing panel would seem to be a challenge. I don't want to chop holes in the ceiling. I could always mount some "wiremold" on the surface of the ceiling and enter the wiring space next to the refrigerator. I'd rather hide the wire in the ceiling if at all possible.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave, another point to remember is that the controller must be connected to the battery(s) before connecting the solar panels. Otherwise the controller will be destroyed.

 

[FloHauler]

This may be a “no turning back” option but can you use the existing 8awg wires to fish through a pair of 6awg (or even bigger if need be) wires to the controller location? You would have to separate the connector assembly at the roof, attach the new larger wires and pull the wires from the controller area. Not sure if the existing wires are secured anywhere inside the roof or wall areas but it might be something worth looking into.

Thx for the reply. The existing wires do not run through the waterproof box. If I were king, I would have required a conduit and pull string attached to the box.

 

[FloHauler]

Dave, another point to remember is that the controller must be connected to the battery(s) before connecting the solar panels. Otherwise the controller will be destroyed.

Thx. I did finish the controller install and attached the batteries first. (I did RTFM before installing )

As CraigAV mentioned, series-parallel is an option to increase voltage and reduce amperage. The old setup had a GoPower controller that did not provide a 24v option. As I was looking further into the existing system, I realized I was only getting a max of 700 watts from the panels as they were wired in parallel and had one 200 watt panel and 6 100 watt panel.

I’ve ditched the 200 watt panel am almost finished adding 4 100 watt panels. I’ll be splitting them into two strings of 5 in series parallel. The new Renogy controller handles 24v with no problems and charges the 12v LI bank.