So I went by a CAT Scale today

[ecksdude]

I've still got about a month before my trailer arrives, but the family was loaded up in the truck today with a full tank and we were within reasonable distance of the CAT scales, so I decided to check.

Now, I expect the tongue weight of my trailer will be ~1300 lbs all said and done (2016 Eagle 284BHBE). The truck is a 2012 RAM 2500 diesel Megacab 4x4.

Front Axle: 5240 lbs
GAWR (front) 5500 lbs

Rear Axle: 3660 lbs
GAWR (rear): 6010 lbs

These numbers give me a nice warm fuzzy... I have another 2350 lbs in the rear to handle the ~1300 lbs of tongue weight from the trailer.

However, the GVWR tells a much different story:

Total weight (front & rear Axles): 8900 lbs
GVWR: 9600 lbs

According to this, if I add 1300 lbs tongue weight, I'll be over by 600 lbs.

Should I be worried?

[djtho1]

Dry hitch weight of that trailer is only 760, so you should be good. There really isn't much your truck won't tow, really . As far as the numbers, someone will chime in, but I would have no trouble towing that trailer with the truck you describe in your sig.

[ecksdude]

Originally Posted by djtho1

Dry hitch weight of that trailer is only 760, so you should be good. There really isn't much your truck won't tow, really . As far as the numbers, someone will chime in, but I would have no trouble towing that trailer with the truck you describe in your sig.

I guess I just don't understand why the GAWR's add up to over 11K lbs, but the GVWR is 9600 lbs?

The axle's should clearly hold the weight just fine based on the RAM documentation, so is it a matter of handling or brakes or something?

Everyone I've talked to thus far says I'll be fine and not to worry about it, but something's not right here... either the GVWR is BS (and if so, why?) or there's a mechanical limitation I'm going to be overshooting by a fair margin.

The dry weight alone would put me at max payload based on the GVWR numbers. That will only increase with a 200 lb hitch (Propride 3P) and loaded trailer with full tanks, etc.

[djtho1]

your axles should be basically the same as the ones in a 1-ton, so that will explain the difference between the GAWR and GVWR. You are actually towing a pretty light trailer for that truck, so that is why people are telling you not to worry. You do bring up an interesting point on the GVWR though, and I hope someone will chime in in the morning once the east coasters are up (I am currently in Oregon as well).

[ecksdude]

I saw somewhere that "legally" 3/4 ton trucks can't be listed over 10,000 lbs and that this is the reason for the cutoff. But that doesn't make much sense to me as I look at the ratings for, say 2012 3500 trucks, and while the axle rating are the same as mine, the GVWR is 10,100 lbs instead of 9600 lbs.

Why wouldn't the 3500 trucks list the full axle weights as GVWR if it was simply a legal thing for 3/4 ton trucks?

There has to be some other reason for the GVWR vs. GAWR and that makes me think I should be looking at a new truck...

I know I can trade mine in and basically come away wtih the same payments (though the term of the loan would reset and the balance would go up). I don't really want to do that, but I also don't want to do something inherently unsafe with my wife and 3 kids in the truck with me.

[djtho1]

Your current truck will tow that camper. Technically a F-150 with the ecoboost is rated to tow that camper and your rig has more capability than that (kinda like night and day). What is your towing experience? If you have any doubts, hook onto a friend's camper or see if you can do a test tow at the dealer. Do you have rear leaf or Dodge's new coil sprung rear?

[ecksdude]

As you've probably already determined from my questions, I'm not very experienced with towing.

We rented a trailer 2 years ago and went on a 6-week trip with it. It was a 5000 lb trailer and we were towing with a '99 Ford Expedition. On paper, it should have been fine, but the actual towing experience was rather nerve wracking. I know now that I made 2 signficant errors in judgement:

1. The Expedition had 250K miles on it already and despite the towing package, the engine struggled mightily to tow that trailer. Our weights were "within spec", but the engine was not really up to the task, and we broke down in New Mexico... that's where I bought the truck I have today, by the way...

2. The rental company set up the WDH for me but did not do it properly. At the time, I had no idea why the steering was so incredibly bad. Now I know that the WDH was not adjusted properly and the front axle didn't have enough weight on it to properly grip the road. I thank God we lived through the experience.

When we hooked up the trailer to the new truck in New Mexico, as you might expect, it was night and day difference. Suddenly we had a vehicle that was way more than capable of towing the trailer, probably even without a WDH. Honestly, it drove as though the trailer wasn't even there. The only time I noticed it was when I had the trailer brake controller adjusted improperly.

What I took away from that experience was:

1. I don't ever want to stretch the limit of towing specs again.

2. 250K is a lot of miles for a gas engine to start your first cross-country RV trip towing a trailer for the first time... =D

3. Diesel is awesome.

I will not change anything until I have the trailer and see how it handles, but I still would like to get some answers in the meantime if they can be had.

[ecksdude]

The truck is a 2012, so leaf springs, not coils.

I really do wonder how one can find out for certain the difference between the 2500 and 3500 models of a given model year.

The axles are most likely identical (based on the fact the GAWRs are identical between the two trucks). So is it simply leaf springs? Are there differences in the brakes?

If I simply add a 3500 spring pack, will it suddenly be (for all practical matters) a 3500 truck? Or is there something more?

What else would be different?

I guess if I bottom out on the springs when we're fully loaded, that will be a clue...

[bap]

GAWR tells you what each individual axle is capable of carrying. GVWR tells you what the truck as a whole unit is rated to carry, it takes into account things like axle capacity, frame capacity, brakes, power, tires and so on. That is why GVWR is not the sum of the GAWR. If you were out on the road and law enforcement put you across the scales, you could be considered over weight if the weight on one axle exceeded the GAWR on the door sticker even if you were not over the GVWR for the truck. Big truckers get nailed for this if the truck is not set up properly, that is why they have sliding 5th wheel hitches and sliding axles on some of the trailers to properly balance the load among the various axles.

[mohok1]

Hey, ecksdude, why are you traveling with full tanks? Doesn't make sense to me.
If you are so worried about being 600-lbs over, why not lighten your load, i.e., empty hot water tank, empty fresh and grey water tanks. Travel with one propane tank filled instead of 2. Just curious!!!

[ecksdude]

Originally Posted by mohok1

Hey, ecksdude, why are you traveling with full tanks? Doesn't make sense to me.
If you are so worried about being 600-lbs over, why not lighten your load, i.e., empty hot water tank, empty fresh and grey water tanks. Travel with one propane tank filled instead of 2. Just curious!!!

My estimate of tongue weight is NOT based on max load.

ProPride hitch: 200 lbs
2 - Honda generators in truck bed: 80 lbs
Trailer weight with 1000 lbs of cargo in it: 8015 x 0.12 = 961 lbs

Total payload (above what I weighed yesterday): 1241 lbs

So again... I'm ~600 pounds over GVWR.

[Amos]

I had the same concerns with the new rig. I drive a 2008 Dodge Ram Mega Cab and the specs are:

GAWR - Front 5200 lbs
Rear 6010 lbs
GVWR - 9000 lbs

CAT SCALES:
Truck only - Front 4620 lbs
Rear 3240 lbs
GV weight 7860 lbs

Truck/TT WITH Reese Dual Cam WD Hitch:
Front 4700 lbs
Rear 4600 lbs
TT axles 8500 lbs
GCVW 17800 lbs

I am well pleased with the weight distribution but, I am concerned that the GVWR is over by 300 lbs. We are heading to Orlando Friday and there will be an additional 700 lbs worth of passengers. This will put me over the GVWR by 1000 lbs but still under the axle ratings and the GCVW rating.

[ecksdude]

What kills me here is that, even if I had bought a 3500, but same year and type, I still would be slightly overweight unless I had DRW's.

I know the newer trucks have a better payload, but still.

I'll see how it goes our first trip. The first time I feel something's not right, though, I'm either going to have the springs replaced or simply head to the dealer for 3500 truck.

I hope I can gain some more confidence in what this means prior to that time.

[Subaru297]

Everything should be the same as a 3500 series truck except for the suspension components. If I was in your shoes I would add airbags to address that and try out the trailer and go from there. Breaking and propulsion should not be an issue.

3/4 ton trucks with diesels don't have a lot of payload to start with. Not many people realize that.....and of course there are exceptions to the rule.

The 10,000 limit in some cases is a regulatory issue. In some locals anything over 10k lbs GVWR has to be registered as a commercial vehicle which increases insurance, etc...

Similar reason why you won't see a mid sized pickup with a GVWR over 6000lbs.

Cheers

[gmast]

any one have experience upgrading tire rating and especially upgrading from the standard 16" to 17.5 or 18" inch wheels? This is on a 2010 37 Reflection.

[Northern Jay]

The spring pack on the rear axle makes a big difference between 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. With our 3500HD Silverado, I added a 5000lb set of Super Springs to the rear to keep the truck level with the Northern Lite Camper loaded. The Super springs reduced rear sag from 5" to 2.5". This kept the headlights properly aimed without physically resetting them. The Super springs also do NOT affect stock ride when nothing is in the bed or being towed. With the camper on board, we generally weigh between 10,500 and 11,000 lbs. GVWR on truck as manufactured is 9900lbs.
IMHO, you have both in to worry about. The truck is properly capable to tow AND control your desired TT. I would add the Super springs if you notice a bit much for rear sag BEFORE hooking up the WDH' bars. I think the goat will be okay tho. ; )
Happy Camping

[bluie5]

I tow a much heavier TT than what your getting with my MegaCab. All I have added was Timbrens to the rear to take up some of the sag. This is my second season with this combo with two long trips so far, including Rocky Mountains this summer. The truck is more than capable towing and no problems keeping it under control. Is a pleasant driving experience when hooked up to TT. I've not had it on scales yet but I'm not concerned about it.

[RedHorse1]

ecks,
This is an interesting question you've brought up. Our 1st TT/TV combination was similar to your rented combi (TT was a bit lighter) and we discovered that we were close on the R GAWR (about 200#) but still 500# below the GVWR. I've paid most attention to the individual axle weights trying to see that the entire rig was balanced and the axles were within their weights (mostly). The same is true for the current 5th.
Common opinion here seems to be that you will not have an issue and I tend to agree. I also expect you will hit the scales again after the new TT is delivered.

[ecksdude]

Time will tell, I guess. I have 3-5 more weeks before the trailer shows up and will definitely be hitting the scales on our first voyage out.

One thing that may be a lot different than others with similar setups is that I have a family of 5, and the kids are not tykes anymore, so we basically have the equivalent of 5 adults in the truck (by weight) which really cuts deep into the payload.

I notice a lot of folks are just couples traveling, or families with younger kids. That would definitely have an impact.

[djtho1]

Not much of one really. Your truck is fine for the load you are going to be hauling. To get an appreciable upgrade in the numbers you will have to move to a medium duty truck. I myself would have zero problems towing that trailer with your truck. Of course, I have been towing since before we worried about all of these numbers. We just hooked and drove back then (**** I'm getting old!).