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Old 10-06-2016, 08:35 AM   #1
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North Point Braking Issue

Good morning members!

Quick question concerning braking on my fifth wheel: this is our first fifth wheel, so have little to compare it to, but I feel that the braking is insufficient on the rig. I'm towing with the braking gain maxed out to 10 on my 3500, and yet, it feels like the trailer is pushing me a bit when stopping. Even in a gravel lot, when manually braking with our controller, I can't get the wheels to even attempt to lock up. I know it's a heavy rig, but one test I've done is hold the controller to full braking while stopped, take truck out of park, take foot off of brake, and rig still rolls forward a few feet before coming to a soft stop. This just doesn't feel right.

I squawked this at my dealer, who said they took it down the road and it felt fine to them. They also claimed they inspected the system and found nothing wrong with it, however I've since been under the RV and found the left rear brake electrical leads chaffed about 30% through. My most recent visit to the dealer, they made the repair on the leads, but braking hasn't improved.

Any ideas? I'll be testing my truck this afternoon, but wonder if anybody has experienced this on their 5er?
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:39 AM   #2
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There have been other threads where it seems the truck maker's brake controllers do not provide maximum power to the trailer's brakes.


Check the towing sub-forum.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:41 AM   #3
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Yes I have. I went round and round with my dealer when my rig was new. Inspection of the brakes showed grease contamination of the shoes. Jayco and Dexter provided new brake assemblies and the replacement was covered under warranty.

My rig stops now as it should but don't expect a heavy fifth wheel to lock the brakes on pavement or even gravel. Mine are effective.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:10 AM   #4
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You have your truck set to Heavy Electric right? At 7.5 my rig stops well and I can achieve full lock up rolling with a slide of the override.

First I would start with the TV as some Ram controllers have been known to not put out enough voltage. See that your getting up to 13V on a full engage of the slide. Then push the pedal fully and see where is comes in at.

What I do to check my settings of the trailer is jack up one side and engage the override with the wheel spinning to check that each wheel is grabbing correctly. Then I set it down and do the pull test.

If your wheels are not locking up with no load then you have to pull a hub and see what's going on inside.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:11 AM   #5
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Your tow vehicle may have a changeable setting for light electric, heavy electric, light hydraulic over electric, and heavy hydraulic over electric. My 2014 RAM has these settings, all changeable from the user screen. Make sure that you are on the correct setting.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:44 AM   #6
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I'm definitely on heavy electric, and my gain is set at 10. Think I'll check the truck first as it sounds like maybe some history there, and then go after trailer troubleshooting. I'll let you all know what I find! Thanks for the input!
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:27 AM   #7
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I have not had any problems with braking, have gain set at 6.5 on my GMC, can lock up brakes when doing a manual override, my previous 5er had disc brakes, much superior to the drum brakes, all heavy 5th wheels should have disc brakes!!!!
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:37 AM   #8
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These brakes are forward adjusting, But mine I had to adjust myself, after a call to lippert they informed me that if they weren't adjusted properly the self adjusters will not adjust properly. Its easy to do :-)
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:14 AM   #9
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Yeah, I thought adjustment too at first, and the RV was going to dealer for other work so had them check it out. Their guy said everything was tight, so trusted that. Starting to not trust that they know much of what they claim...
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:57 AM   #10
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Brakes

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetTech View Post
Good morning members!

Quick question concerning braking on my fifth wheel: this is our first fifth wheel, so have little to compare it to, but I feel that the braking is insufficient on the rig. I'm towing with the braking gain maxed out to 10 on my 3500, and yet, it feels like the trailer is pushing me a bit when stopping. Even in a gravel lot, when manually braking with our controller, I can't get the wheels to even attempt to lock up. I know it's a heavy rig, but one test I've done is hold the controller to full braking while stopped, take truck out of park, take foot off of brake, and rig still rolls forward a few feet before coming to a soft stop. This just doesn't feel right.

I squawked this at my dealer, who said they took it down the road and it felt fine to them. They also claimed they inspected the system and found nothing wrong with it, however I've since been under the RV and found the left rear brake electrical leads chaffed about 30% through. My most recent visit to the dealer, they made the repair on the leads, but braking hasn't improved.

Any ideas? I'll be testing my truck this afternoon, but wonder if anybody has experienced this on their 5er?
JetTech my brakes on my Pinnacle are exactly the same as yours and I'm also at 10 with my brake controller.
I ask my dealer ( who I will NOT go back to ) to check brakes and they are fine I was told.
I said can you adjust them??? We don't do that here.
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Old 10-06-2016, 12:04 PM   #11
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I also have a 28' enclosed trailer and that trailer stops.
I think it's the fifth wheel brakes. Going to get them adjusted by a dealer that knows what they are doing or do it myself and see.
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Old 10-06-2016, 01:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobuck1 View Post
These brakes are forward adjusting, But mine I had to adjust myself, after a call to lippert they informed me that if they weren't adjusted properly the self adjusters will not adjust properly. Its easy to do :-)
Hi Sobuck,

Do you have any more details on this. That was my first thought to but my research showed that I had auto adjusting brakes and I quit looking down that path to fix my weak brakes.

Thanks
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Old 10-06-2016, 02:34 PM   #13
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I have a 28.5 RSTS HT my brakes were the same. tried to do the hard stop thing for the self adjuster which may work once they are adjusted. took about an hour to adjust,, Just took a 1500 mile trip some good grades and traffic brakes worked great
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:13 PM   #14
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Hey JetTech. I could have (and I have) written word for word of your post about my brakes. I still have poor brakes.
The other day my neighbor took my NorthPoint out for a tug with his 2015 Chevy. He pulls his 2014 Pinnacle at 4 on his built in controller. 5-6 is too much and anything over he locks.
He pulled mine at 10 and very little, just like me.

I can set my controller at 10 and pull my rig out of my driveway with the trigger pulled with ease, and it will coast a little when I let off the gas.

Dealer says the brakes are good.
I'm going back with my neighbors findings AND your thread. Thanks for posting.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasum View Post
JetTech my brakes on my Pinnacle are exactly the same as yours and I'm also at 10 with my brake controller.
I ask my dealer ( who I will NOT go back to ) to check brakes and they are fine I was told.
I said can you adjust them??? We don't do that here.
If not the dealer, then who?! That's when I'd call Jayco'a corporate offices! That's BS!
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klassic View Post
Hey JetTech. I could have (and I have) written word for word of your post about my brakes. I still have poor brakes.
The other day my neighbor took my NorthPoint out for a tug with his 2015 Chevy. He pulls his 2014 Pinnacle at 4 on his built in controller. 5-6 is too much and anything over he locks.
He pulled mine at 10 and very little, just like me.

I can set my controller at 10 and pull my rig out of my driveway with the trigger pulled with ease, and it will coast a little when I let off the gas.

Dealer says the brakes are good.
I'm going back with my neighbors findings AND your thread. Thanks for posting.
I hope they don't use it as an excuse to say it's normal!

Keep us in the loop!
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobuck1 View Post
These brakes are forward adjusting, But mine I had to adjust myself, after a call to lippert they informed me that if they weren't adjusted properly the self adjusters will not adjust properly. Its easy to do :-)
Did they send any literature on the procedure?
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Old 10-06-2016, 10:05 PM   #18
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The brakes on my TT needed a 'break in' period. Initially they were very poor and I had to have my brake controller set very high. The brakes improved greatly over time and now they are very good so my brake controller is at a normal level.

(I glanced through the posts and didn't see anything regarding breaking in the trailer's brakes.)

http://www.lci1.com/images/support/lipsheet/0139.pdf

Page 1 of 1
Rev: 09.30.2013
Contact us: Lippert Components Inc. - Welcome to Lippert Customer Service - Phone: (574) 537-8900 - Email: warranty@lci1.com
0139
LIP Sheet - 0139
AXLES AND SUSPENSION
BREAK-IN PERIOD FOR ELECTRIC DRUM BRAKES
The break-in period is a typical phenomenon with drum brakes and especially electric drum brakes. Electric
drum brakes will require a break-in period to achieve full performance. This break-in period applies for new
axles and any time new brake shoes and/or magnets are installed as part of regular maintenance.
Lippert Components has found through extensive brake testing that the break-in period for our drum
brakes can range from 20 to 50 brake applications. Brakes can be seated in by applying approximately 8-10
volts to the trailer brakes at an initial speed of 40 mph and allowing the truck/trailer combination to slow
down to 20 or 25 mph. For best results do not use truck brakes during this procedure. The trailer brakes will
seat -in faster by using them to stop both the truck and trailer. The easiest method is to apply the trailer
brakes using the manual activation lever located on the in-cab brake controller. Care must be taken to not
overheat the lining material, therefore brake applications conducted at one mile intervals will suffice.
The driver should feel a noticeable difference in the brake performance during this period, sometimes in as
few as 10 applications. After 50 applications, the brake lining material will be fully cured from the heat and
develop close to 100% contact with the brake drum surface. This break in period not only seats the shoe
lining material but also seats in the brake electro-magnets. During the break-in period, the linings will wear
at a faster rate than they do after they are seated in.
NOTE:
Brakes should be manually adjusted after the first 200 miles of operation and periodically thereafter,
approximately 3,000 mile intervals.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:26 AM   #19
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If your new trailer was towed from the factory the brakes should be already burnished and broken in.
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Old 10-07-2016, 06:49 AM   #20
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Quote:
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If your new trailer was towed from the factory the brakes should be already burnished and broken in.
Yep
Rock's were. So much so his rim melted
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