Towing 16XRB with Dodge Grand Caravan

[Javin]

Originally Posted by secal48

One thing I don't see is which engine do you have in the caravan. We had grand caravans for 25 years towing a jayco pup and then an x17z. But we had the big engine and towing packages. Also look into a class 4 hitch, you be straining with a 3.

Ours has the standard V6 3.6L. It also has the heavy duty rad and transmission cooler which is now standard on all Grand Caravans. No one ever suggested a class 4 hitch so i will look into that.

[Javin]

Originally Posted by Subaru297

There should be another different sticker that has the number you need.

Hmm, wondering where this other sticker would be located and what info is it I'm looking for? That sticker I posted was on the driver side door jam. I will check other door jams for a different one.

[Sundancer330]

The payload for your van on the Dodge web site is 1540 pounds. Sounds like a lot but you can eat that up fast, tongue weight, WDH, luggage, people, dog, food, cooler, etc, etc. You will have to figure how much weight your family will subtract from this number to be safe. As others have said don't listen to a salesman, all they care about is the sale and not you or your familys safety. Someone mentioned a class four hitch, your van is only rated for a class 3, which is max 400 pound tongue weight, and 4000 towing.

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by Javin

Hmm, wondering where this other sticker would be located and what info is it I'm looking for? That sticker I posted was on the driver side door jam. I will check other door jams for a different one.

The Tire and Loading sticker is usually on the B-pillar (or center pillar) of the drivers side. When you open the drivers door look towards the lower-right of the opening. It will be a yellow and white sticker with the phrase "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX". This will tell you how much cargo capacity your specific vehicle has based on all options that were installed at the factory. If the your or the dealer added options the weight of those needs to be subtracted from this number.

[Subaru297]

Originally Posted by Javin

Hmm, wondering where this other sticker would be located and what info is it I'm looking for? That sticker I posted was on the driver side door jam. I will check other door jams for a different one.

As ttavasc mentioned above it should also be on your drivers door jamb somewhere. It is the same sticker that states your recommended tire pressures.

Cheers

[Javin]

Originally Posted by ttavasc

The Tire and Loading sticker is usually on the B-pillar (or center pillar) of the drivers side. When you open the drivers door look towards the lower-right of the opening. It will be a yellow and white sticker with the phrase "The combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed XXX". This will tell you how much cargo capacity your specific vehicle has based on all options that were installed at the factory. If the your or the dealer added options the weight of those needs to be subtracted from this number.

I found the other sticker which i attached. In case its hard to read it says...

The combined weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed 1150 lbs.

So what are all these numbers telling me?

-yellow sticker weight of the trailer is 2948 lbs.

-sticker on dodge says
GAWR
FRONT 2950 LB
REAR 3100 LB
GVWR - 6050 LB

-manual says..
GCWR- 8750 LBS
FRONTAL AREA- 40 SQ FEET
MAX GTW - UP TO 2 PEOPLE AND LUGGAGE 3500 LBS (SINCE I HAVE FOLD IN SEATS THIS HAS BEEN REDUCED 100 LBS)
MAX TONGUE WEIGHT- 360 LBS

Basically i just want to find out how much cargo could i carry and still be within safe legal limits. And also is it safe and wise that Jayco and the rv salesman is advertising the caravan as a TV for this trailer? Its on the Jayco website and lists a bunch of vans that apparently will tow it. Quote from Jayco site.
**Tow rating matches the GVWR of the 16XRB model only
Note: RV weights reflect 2017 Jayco models. Tow vehicle ratings are based on 2016 models.
web page.
https://www.jayco.com/tools/easytow/

Like I said i am new to all this being a tent camper before this. When we bought the van we thought it would be fine because we did see other vans pulling similar hybrids and even heavier ones like the Solaire 147X. I just dont want to regret this once the papers are signed. thanks again for all the help.

[Murff]

Okay, Javin.

The total weight you can put in your van is 1150 pounds. For extreme measure, let's say you have the trailer loaded to it's max weight of 3750 pounds. The tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the 3750 lbs. Again, at the extreme of 15%, your tongue weight would be 512 pounds.

That means you can still add 632 pounds to the inside of the van, except you should not have more than 360 pounds of tongue weight. If you could keep the tongue weight at the 360 pound max, you could load 790 pounds into the van.

Now the bad part; since your Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is 8750 lbs, and you had both the van and trailer maxed, you would be over the GCWR by nearly 1100 pounds (Van GVRW 6050 + Trailer GVRW 3750 = 9800)

Granted this is the extreme. Is Jayco wrong in stating your van is capable of pulling the trailer, depends on how things are loaded and how much is loaded.

Sorry if this doesn't help much.

Murff

[Javin]

Originally Posted by Murff

Okay, Javin.

The total weight you can put in your van is 1150 pounds. For extreme measure, let's say you have the trailer loaded to it's max weight of 3750 pounds. The tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the 3750 lbs. Again, at the extreme of 15%, your tongue weight would be 512 pounds.

That means you can still add 632 pounds to the inside of the van, except you should not have more than 360 pounds of tongue weight. If you could keep the tongue weight at the 360 pound max, you could load 790 pounds into the van.

Now the bad part; since your Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is 8750 lbs, and you had both the van and trailer maxed, you would be over the GCWR by nearly 1100 pounds (Van GVRW 6050 + Trailer GVRW 3750 = 9800)

Granted this is the extreme. Is Jayco wrong in stating your van is capable of pulling the trailer, depends on how things are loaded and how much is loaded.

Sorry if this doesn't help much.

Murff

Thanks so much for the detailed breakdown. This puts things into better perspective for someone who is completely new to this and learning the lingo. What would you say a Resonable and safe weight for cargo would be? I plan to weigh everything we put in the van or trailer starting with the battery and propane.

[Murff]

Hi Javin,

Busy day today and just got back to this thread. From the Jayco website:

The 16XRB Specs

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) View Definition 2850
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) View Definition 280
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) View Definition 3750
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) View Definition 900

If you loaded 400 pounds into the trailer, and keep in mind that you will need at least one battery and a full propane tank, that would bring the trailer up to 3250 pounds (2850 dry weight plus 400 pounds of stuff). At 10% of this (3250) weight, that would give you a tongue weight of 325 pounds and under your hitch limitation of 360. The tongue weight can be adjusted by loading more or less stuff in front of or behind the axle (Think teeter-totter) but remember you want at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue.

With the tongue weight now subtracted from your Payload of 1150 pounds, (1150 - 325) that leaves you with about 825 pounds that you could put in your van. This would include passengers and other camping stuff. I would highly recommend a good weight distributing hitch with the set up and a real light one for your combination would be the Andersen Hitch

If any one finds fault in my calculations, please offer any corrections, it has been a long mental day.

Hope this helps a bit more.

Murff

[Rustic Eagle]

Javin,

Here's another hypothetical loading condition of the 16XRB you are looking at:

(2,948lbs UVW per your Yellow Sticker) + (400lbs conservative Cargo-no fluids) + (50lbs Dealer battery) = 3,398lbs loaded

Loaded tongue weight: 3,398lbs @ 13% = 442lbs (@ 10% = 340lbs)

I used 13% as a target tongue weight (of gross) because the 16XRB is a single axle HTT and 13% would enhance TV handling, especially in less then ideal towing conditions.

IMO most owners of the smaller "Jay Feather 7" models find their actual loaded weights are closer to the HTT's GVWR due to the limited CCC (on Yellow Sticker).

Also, the weight of a standard WDH (30lbs - 50lbs) would be subtracted from the TV's avalible payload capacity as well.

Just food for thought.

Bob

[Javin]

Thank you to everyone who has helped me with this. I will be doing my research with the info you guys provided to get a better understanding of all this since alot of these definitions and terms are new to me. My families safety is my #1 priority so I may be back with more specific questions once i do more research.

Any one with further insights is always appreciated as well.

THANK YOU SO MUCH! I truly appreciate the time people spend to help me and my family with this.

[Murff]

I concur with Bob on his more realistic figures. The weight limitation of the hitch is a big factor.

Murff

[quantum743]

Hi Javin,

I agree with what the prior posters stated for your weight limits. I just wanted to add my experiences as I was in a similar position last year. We have a GMC Acadia with a tow rating of 5200 lbs and a similar sized engine (V6 3.6L). We ended up buying a 2016 16XRB. I was always paranoid of payload weight and the amount of cargo in the trailer. Trips to the scales confirmed I was close but within my limits. I always felt that the Acadia was overworking and searching for the right gear (even in the midwest with rolling hills). It could of been because I was new to towing, but I ended up stressing about the weights and Acaida's capabilities.

We bought a half ton truck towards the end of summer and I am happier with the experience. I am more comfortable towing longer distances on the highway and am not nearly as stressed about weights.

Just my two cents, but if you are worried now like I was, you probably will continue to worry about it after buying it. It is a great little trailer and so far it has treated us well.

[Javin]

Originally Posted by quantum743

Hi Javin,

I agree with what the prior posters stated for your weight limits. I just wanted to add my experiences as I was in a similar position last year. We have a GMC Acadia with a tow rating of 5200 lbs and a similar sized engine (V6 3.6L). We ended up buying a 2016 16XRB. I was always paranoid of payload weight and the amount of cargo in the trailer. Trips to the scales confirmed I was close but within my limits. I always felt that the Acadia was overworking and searching for the right gear (even in the midwest with rolling hills). It could of been because I was new to towing, but I ended up stressing about the weights and Acaida's capabilities.

We bought a half ton truck towards the end of summer and I am happier with the experience. I am more comfortable towing longer distances on the highway and am not nearly as stressed about weights.

Just my two cents, but if you are worried now like I was, you probably will continue to worry about it after buying it. It is a great little trailer and so far it has treated us well.

Thanks for your input. In hind sight i wish we had of bought something with more tow capacity but we initially thought we were getting a pop up. Like you I am nervous just being new to this so we will see how it goes. I will be travelling at a very moderate speed and fortunately its quite flat here in Ontario Canada where we will be travelling with max trips of 3 hours for now till I get used to towing.

You mentioned your tv gear, Just wondering if there is a specific gear I should be locking into when travelling around 60-65 mph or any other speed for that matter? The grand Caravan has a feature to lock into a gear while travelling.

[Kim Gass]

If it were me I wouldn't do it.. You are too close to maximum load. Also if you ever carry fresh water that load has to be considered.

We have a TV that can haul 5000 lbs. 3600 is plenty for it.. It works hard in the mountains. It has an undersized engine not meant for towing a big box with plenty of wind resistance.

Yes if you load up the front of the trailer you can exceed the tongue weight and the payload of your TV. For that reason we keep only two camp chairs and a BBQ in the basement.
The yellow sticker weight is minus propane, water, battery.. Those can easily weigh up to 300 lbs. No dishes personal stuff included.

[rkresge]

Repeating what I posted in the other thread you started, Javin, I tried towing with a very similar combination: 2009 Grand Caravan, 2014 165RB. Bad experience. Pay attention to your GC's manual regarding MAX TONGUE WEIGHT. That trailer is going to go over. Think propane tanks, clothing, food... You'll have it up to the trailer's GVWR in no time, and that means a tongue weight of 400-450 pounds. This is not a formula for success!!! Do what I did and get a real tow vehicle. (Sorry for the negative advice.)

Roger

[Bassdogs]

Originally Posted by Javin

thanks again for the tips, I will be reviewing the tow section in Caravan manual.
Just to clarify, the sticker basically says....

GAWR
FRONT 2950 LB
REAR 3100 LB

GVWR - 6050 LB

not sure if there are any numbers I'm missing but once again any help decoding/calculating this is appreciated.

I just find it a little misleading on this Jayco web page where it specifically says "Tow rating matches the GVWR of 16XRB only", then goes on to list Dodge Grand Caravan as a TV. Then the internet is full of folks saying don't do it. Being new to this its all very confusing and keeping me up at night. Mean while the salesman keeps patting me on the back saying "its fine buddy, its made to be towed by a Dodge Grand Caravan."

Stopped reading the responses on this so this may have already been said. To summarize, I would not recommend what you are suggesting and you can split hairs and put helium in all the tires [lighten up the rig - Ha Ha], but in the end it is not a good idea.

With that said, can you do it? Probably. Will you have issues? For sure.. Will you be safe? With proper care and planning I say yes. Back in the early 80's we pulled a full sized pup with a straight 6 Plymouth Valary wagon. With the pup fully loaded for a 2 week family vacation and the car stuffed with 3 adults, 3 10-12 aged kids and a dog; we successfully traveled west and crossed the Rockies twice on our way to Grand Lake Co and returned on the windy road heading thru the Rocky Mtn NP high ridge road. Later we drove that vehicle for another 8 years and racked up 100,000 miles with the oldest kid driving it for 2 years. Retired that wagon and donated it to Good Will, but in the end it was still driving and we had zero problems with the engine/drive train or suspension.

[rkresge]

Originally Posted by Javin

Mean while the salesman keeps patting me on the back saying "its fine buddy, its made to be towed by a Dodge Grand Caravan."

Were his lips moving????

Sorry, that may be the biggest, most frequently-told lie in the RV business.

I think bassdogs just made somewhat the same suggestion I did in another thread: Go with a popup instead of a hybrid if you're going to insist on towing with that Grand Caravan.

Good luck!

Roger

[Javin]

Originally Posted by Murff

Hi Javin,

Busy day today and just got back to this thread. From the Jayco website:

The 16XRB Specs

Unloaded Vehicle Weight (lbs) View Definition 2850
Dry Hitch Weight (lbs) View Definition 280
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (lbs) View Definition 3750
Cargo Carrying Capacity (lbs) View Definition 900

If you loaded 400 pounds into the trailer, and keep in mind that you will need at least one battery and a full propane tank, that would bring the trailer up to 3250 pounds (2850 dry weight plus 400 pounds of stuff). At 10% of this (3250) weight, that would give you a tongue weight of 325 pounds and under your hitch limitation of 360. The tongue weight can be adjusted by loading more or less stuff in front of or behind the axle (Think teeter-totter) but remember you want at least 10% of the trailer weight on the tongue.

With the tongue weight now subtracted from your Payload of 1150 pounds, (1150 - 325) that leaves you with about 825 pounds that you could put in your van. This would include passengers and other camping stuff. I would highly recommend a good weight distributing hitch with the set up and a real light one for your combination would be the Andersen Hitch

If any one finds fault in my calculations, please offer any corrections, it has been a long mental day.

Hope this helps a bit more.

Murff

Once again thanks to everyone for the input. Just wondering , since I'm completely new at this, how do you setup and determine the tongue weight? Is this something the dealer would assist in at the orientation session when picking up the trailer typically? Or is it up to me to bring the trailer to a scale when loaded? Or am I weighing stuff I put in the trailer and figuring out how to reach that critical 10-15%. Once again this is all new to me and I'm trying my best figure out the best way to go about all this. Thanks again for all the comments.

[ttavasc]

Originally Posted by Javin

Once again thanks to everyone for the input. Just wondering , since I'm completely new at this, how do you setup and determine the tongue weight? Is this something the dealer would assist in at the orientation session when picking up the trailer typically? Or is it up to me to bring the trailer to a scale when loaded? Or am I weighing stuff I put in the trailer and figuring out how to reach that critical 10-15%. Once again this is all new to me and I'm trying my best figure out the best way to go about all this. Thanks again for all the comments.

There are several ways that you can get tongue weights. I picked up a Sherline Tongue weight scale so that I can quickly and easily determine tongue weight. Another option is to make a tongue weight scale with a bathroom scale. Links for both of these options are here:

https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-1...words=sherline

Measuring trailer tongue weight with a bathroom scale

You can also derive tongue weight with multiple passes over the CAT scale. Here's the link to the sticky post for that procedure --> http://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f3...v-tt-3871.html

Even if you opt for the Sherline as I did, or use the home-made scale, at some point you still want to run your set up over a CAT scale fully loaded to verify your other weights and see how well adjusted your weight distributing hitch is. The tongue weight scale is really handy though, and very convenient.