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Old 11-12-2015, 01:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Country_Mouse View Post
Camper_Bob, Thank you! That totally makes sense to me now. I will (and have my husband too) go watch those videos. I have read and reread the manual and it just wasn't totally sinking in.

Let me ask you this...If we get this hitch set up correctly, and it takes more weight off of the TV rear axle, does that count as weight off of the rawr? Or when they make that rating are they only referencing pre wdh? If we redistribute 300 more lbs off the rear axle we could avoid buying a new TV.

I have been shopping and all I can find that gives us any more payload and fits us all comfortably is the 3/4 ton Suburban. Few and far between used ones and none cheaper than $17K.

Our 8950# tow rating Expedition seems to be right at the top of SUV tow ratings.
The other Bob (Rustic Eagle) would have a better answer to that question. I don't believe that to be the case though. I'm sorry I don't have an answer on that, but I've never bothered to look into it because I've never been that close on GAWR.

I agree that the Expy is generally at the top of the stack as far as towing/hauling capacity in the SUV category, or at least they have been. I was looking for a full-size SUV for my wife a while back, and the Expys kept my eye the longest. We're not in the market any more, but I wanted something that could tow our trailer in a pinch. The Expy would do it, but it wouldn't be too happy about it

Unfortunately, I think you're right. Since they don't make the Excursion any more, and the 3/4T Suburbans are not readily available except for fleet orders (and GM has threatened to stop making them too), that sticks you with a CC pickup for towing capacity, but then you don't have enough passenger space. So then you're stuck with a "chase" vehicle for hauling bodies. Not necessarily a bad situation, but could make it a lot more difficult for long trips.

There is something else though. I don't know a whole lot about it, but have you considered a van? One or two on here, and possibly a few over on rv.net have advocated towing with a large capacity van. I know we used a Ford many years ago. It was a 15-passenger van and it had the Triton V-10 I believe. It should have enough payload, but to my knowledge, they're not generally designed to pull a lot. The gearing isn't right IIRC? I dunno, someone else will have to address that in more detail...

I do know that I saw a gentleman pulling a pretty sizable Airstream with his full-size Ford work van. He was a contractor and traveled a lot. He lived in the Airstream and his van was full of all his tools and such so he worked out of the van. I don't know about what his weights and measures were, but he seemed to be very comfortable with his setup.
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:59 PM   #32
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Country_Mouse,

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Originally Posted by Country_Mouse View Post
snip....... Let me ask you this...If we get this hitch set up correctly, and it takes more weight off of the TV rear axle, does that count as weight off of the rawr? Or when they make that rating are they only referencing pre wdh? If we redistribute 300 more lbs off the rear axle we could avoid buying a new TV........ snip
The RAWR is the vehicle manufacture's "fixed" maximum axle weight limit based on the configuration of the vehicle in question...., and this same specified RGAWR limit doesn't change with the incorporation of a WDH. What the WDH does is aid in "reducing the weight" placed over the TV's rear axle do to the effect of the TT's loaded tongue weight placed on the hitch ball.

But "yes", if it is determined (via CAT scale) that your TV's front suspension requires an additional 300lbs transferred to it off the TV's rear axle, then based on your initial CAT scale results you would be right at your TV's specified RGAWR.

NOTE: Using fender heights will get one in the "ball park" when adjusting a WDH, but the CAT scale refines/confirms the WDH adjustment process. With this in mind....; dropping a TV's front fender height "below" it's unhitched height, or increasing the weight transferred to the TV's front axle (suspension) "above" it's unhitched weight..., under these conditions the front suspension will be compromised effecting TV ride and handling.

Hope this helps.

Bob
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:22 PM   #33
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I spoke with Equalizer today. Going to try adding a washer or two. He said to visualize it like a teeter totter that weight from front axle was going to rear axle. I don't think tongue weight and cargo in TV are exceeding limit. If I took the curb weight and divided it in two I'd have approx. 2750# per axle. We only had about 500# of passengers (including pups) in 2nd and 3rd row seats. That would be 3250# over rear axle plus tongue weight. Scale said 4700# over rear axle without wdh. There is no way our tongue weight was 1400#! Even at 15% of a fully loaded trailer (which we weren't ) tongue would be only 900#. Saying this "out loud" helps me work through it in my head. 😉

Soooo, what I think is happening is that weight from the front axle has shifted too much to the rear and we need to put more back on the front. I realize that is what the wdh is for but seeing it in real life action makes it sink in.
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Old 11-13-2015, 10:25 AM   #34
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I spoke with Equalizer today. Going to try adding a washer or two. He said to visualize it like a teeter totter that weight from front axle was going to rear axle. I don't think tongue weight and cargo in TV are exceeding limit. If I took the curb weight and divided it in two I'd have approx. 2750# per axle. We only had about 500# of passengers (including pups) in 2nd and 3rd row seats. That would be 3250# over rear axle plus tongue weight. Scale said 4700# over rear axle without wdh. There is no way our tongue weight was 1400#! Even at 15% of a fully loaded trailer (which we weren't ) tongue would be only 900#. Saying this "out loud" helps me work through it in my head. 😉

Soooo, what I think is happening is that weight from the front axle has shifted too much to the rear and we need to put more back on the front. I realize that is what the wdh is for but seeing it in real life action makes it sink in.
Be careful with your logic in dividing the vehicle weight in half to get axle weights. This is why you need to weigh EACH AXLE SEPARATELY on your cat scale. VERY few vehicles are actually balanced front and rear even when they're empty. Start putting stuff/people in the truck, and weights can be all over the place.

Furthermore, the rear axle will usually hold more weight than the front axle. Think about it; most of the weight you will add to a vehicle is mostly over the rear axle. The front axle primarily holds the engine, not much weight generally gets added to the front axle during normal usage. For example, in my truck, the rear axle GAWR is 1000 lbs higher than the front axle, and in my wife's XTerra, the rear GAWR is 300 lbs. over the front.

Bob is right about the fender heights. They will get you close, but the scale will tell the absolute truth. You need a front and rear axle weight with and without the trailer (using the 3-pass method described in the towing thread sticky) to get the true numbers.
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Old 11-13-2015, 10:49 AM   #35
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Be careful with your logic in dividing the vehicle weight in half to get axle weights. This is why you need to weigh EACH AXLE SEPARATELY on your cat scale. VERY few vehicles are actually balanced front and rear even when they're empty. Start putting stuff/people in the truck, and weights can be all over the place.

Furthermore, the rear axle will usually hold more weight than the front axle. Think about it; most of the weight you will add to a vehicle is mostly over the rear axle. The front axle primarily holds the engine, not much weight generally gets added to the front axle during normal usage. For example, in my truck, the rear axle GAWR is 1000 lbs higher than the front axle, and in my wife's XTerra, the rear GAWR is 300 lbs. over the front.

Bob is right about the fender heights. They will get you close, but the scale will tell the absolute truth. You need a front and rear axle weight with and without the trailer (using the 3-pass method described in the towing thread sticky) to get the true numbers.
Absolutely!

Country, take another look at my weight spreadsheet that I posted earlier in this conversation. I expect our empty weights would be similar. Ford changed rear axles on the Expe in '03 but I doubt the rear weights changed by a huge amount.
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Old 11-13-2015, 01:18 PM   #36
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Be careful with your logic in dividing the vehicle weight in half to get axle weights. This is why you need to weigh EACH AXLE SEPARATELY on your cat scale.......snip
X2

Bob
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Old 11-13-2015, 01:50 PM   #37
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Duly noted. Thanks guys.

Still shopping for that Excursion....
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