Global warming???

[Seann45]

Wed. Sept 5 2018 and the outside temp is 29F at 6 am in Saskatoon SK… please tell me about Global warming again I must have misunderstood something.

[Mustang65]

You asked for it!!!

The idea that Global Warming is a natural cycle is well understood from paleo data covering the past 1 million years. Is there a difference between current climate, and the natural cycle? For the past million years the natural climate has oscillated between warm periods and ice ages. This shifting in and out of warm periods and ice ages is correlated strongly with Milankovitch cycles. In order to understand the difference between natural cycle and human-caused/influenced global warming, one needs to consider changes in radiative forcing and how this affects systems on Earth such as the atmosphere, vegetation, ice and snow, ocean chemistry and ocean heat content overturn cycles and related effects. The current radiative forcing levels are clearly outside of the natural cycle range.

:-)

Don
My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[Screwby]

It was all the Aquanet in the 80s depleting the ozone layer

[stateboy]

Or us as kids shooting out freon tubes on discarded fridges with our BB guns in the 60s and 70s.

[WinnieView]

Originally Posted by Mustang65

You asked for it!!!

The idea that Global Warming is a natural cycle is well understood from paleo data covering the past 1 million years. Is there a difference between current climate, and the natural cycle? For the past million years the natural climate has oscillated between warm periods and ice ages. This shifting in and out of warm periods and ice ages is correlated strongly with Milankovitch cycles. In order to understand the difference between natural cycle and human-caused/influenced global warming, one needs to consider changes in radiative forcing and how this affects systems on Earth such as the atmosphere, vegetation, ice and snow, ocean chemistry and ocean heat content overturn cycles and related effects. The current radiative forcing levels are clearly outside of the natural cycle range.

:-)

Don
My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

Last Summer was the "hottest on record" for Phoenix according to the NWS, for as long as they've been keeping records.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by 2008Seneca

Last Summer was the "hottest on record" for Phoenix according to the NWS, for as long as they've been keeping records.

But many areas in the Midwest had more 90 degree days in August 1936 than this year.

[Camper_bob]

That's why we don't say "Global Warming" any more. People took it too literally. The more accurate moniker is "Climate Change", because there has been a change in global climate patterns. It's not really difficult to observe either, even in my relatively short lifetime.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time it was 29 in Saskatoon this time of year?

[bankr63]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

Out of curiosity, when was the last time it was 29 in Saskatoon this time of year?

Previous lowest temperature on this date was 30 in 1903. Recordings go back to 1892. Normal low is 46.

https://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/sk-...?unit=imperial

[Mustang65]

Pull up a chair, get your reading glasses get a beer or two, pop the top and start reading.

GLOBAL WARMING

Don


My Registry

RVing with SOLAR

[spoon059]

Originally Posted by 2008Seneca

Last Summer was the "hottest on record" for Phoenix according to the NWS, for as long as they've been keeping records.

How long has that been, and how accurate are the records? I find it humorous that in my area they record temps at the airports and try to make me believe that hundred year old records are falling...

#1 temps vary from place to place. It can be 33 and raining at the airport and 20 miles away its 31 and snowing.
#2 I've noticed that temps near a large concrete building with significant black paved non porous areas tend to hold heat longer than a field or other natural area. So even if its 31 degrees in all the areas around the airport, all that black asphalt and concrete heatsink are still just a little warmer. Weird how a degree or two can vastly throw off these wild claims of "record temperatures"...
#3 I've always wondered just how exact thermometers can be. I've got digital thermometers in my house that vary from 1-4 degrees, even right next to each other. Never mind a mercury thermometer that can give the impression of a degree cooler or hotter depending upon whether you are looking straight on, from below or above.


Moral of the story... when I hear that a city was the "hottest on record", it means very very little to me. I do know that NYC was supposed to be under water 3 years ago... https://canadafreepress.com/article/...2015-because-o
At one point the Earth was frozen, at another it was flooded, I'm sure there have been droughts in between as well. All of that occurred before the Industrial Revolution that is currently being blamed for everything.

Nah, I don't really listen to the noise. It is 99 degrees today in September in the Mid Atlantic. All that means is that its still boating season, still have a while left in camping season and my electric bill will probably be a little higher than last year. Anyway, I'm not a scientist getting paid a lot of federal tax dollars to continue to search for evidence of this theory...

[curver900]

there is what is called normal.. which is no more than an average of all the numbers.. collected over the short period of less than 150 years.. in the 1800's through the 1970's there was someone who went out (maybe) every day around the same time.. give or take and read a thermometer... did they do it at 5am? midnight 01? noon? some were good some not so much.. there where very few thermometers (none on a mountain top for instance) now that was only in the US and Europe... did they do it in Africa? Greenland? anywhere else the arctic? no... so we have "records" from manual reading of temps that come up with an average of a very small sample of a VERY large mass... Don't forget only 29% of the earth is land, so your numbers are even more worthless... the rest is all water..

Based on those numbers and now we say oh in the last 50 years the climate has changed soooo soooo much, but don't forget that in 1970 it was global cooling remember that????the same group who came up with that also came up with "global warming" and then "climate change".

Look back at recent history (in the last 4000 years) and the desert SW wasn't a desert, Egypt wasn't a desert, but now they are... why? it all changes... the best thing that ever happened to humans and mammals in general is warmth.. period.. and if the temp goes up another 20 degrees you will still be better off than if it goes -20 degrees... when there is no time to grow food you can see at how many will perish in a great famine...

if there is money to be made and control to be had, scare tactics are the work of those people... enjoy....

Technology hasn't been around long enough to even know how to figure out if climate is changing one way or another, heck they can't even predict the weather more than 5 days accurately.. they can't even get the future cast to match up with what is happening...

It is sad to me that people "know for sure without a doubt" based on <.00001% of the time earth has been around they know the climate is going to kill us all off...

remember that more than 99% of all life that has been on this planet in the 4.5 billion years it has been around has gone extinct... 86% of it has never been described...

[curver900]

Originally Posted by spoon059

How long has that been, and how accurate are the records? I find it humorous that in my area they record temps at the airports and try to make me believe that hundred year old records are falling...

#1 temps vary from place to place. It can be 33 and raining at the airport and 20 miles away its 31 and snowing.
#2 I've noticed that temps near a large concrete building with significant black paved non porous areas tend to hold heat longer than a field or other natural area. So even if its 31 degrees in all the areas around the airport, all that black asphalt and concrete heatsink are still just a little warmer. Weird how a degree or two can vastly throw off these wild claims of "record temperatures"...
#3 I've always wondered just how exact thermometers can be. I've got digital thermometers in my house that vary from 1-4 degrees, even right next to each other. Never mind a mercury thermometer that can give the impression of a degree cooler or hotter depending upon whether you are looking straight on, from below or above.


Moral of the story... when I hear that a city was the "hottest on record", it means very very little to me. I do know that NYC was supposed to be under water 3 years ago... https://canadafreepress.com/article/...2015-because-o
At one point the Earth was frozen, at another it was flooded, I'm sure there have been droughts in between as well. All of that occurred before the Industrial Revolution that is currently being blamed for everything.

Nah, I don't really listen to the noise. It is 99 degrees today in September in the Mid Atlantic. All that means is that its still boating season, still have a while left in camping season and my electric bill will probably be a little higher than last year. Anyway, I'm not a scientist getting paid a lot of federal tax dollars to continue to search for evidence of this theory...

exactly it is a theory and all theory's have to prove themselves if they can't then a new hypothesis is needed... still waiting.. it is a religion not science... science only deals in facts.. don't forget the fact there would be no snow now according to those climate believers... all the glaciers melted... this generation would be doomed... now that hasn't happened so..... that proves your theory is wrong... and you need a new hypothesis..

THAT is how science works...

[PapiG]

Was 92f on the Atlantic Coast of Nova Scotia a few weeks ago.... Way hotter than normal.

[Crabman]

I remember in the 70s they said we were heading for an ice age.

[jpgale]

I don't want to get into the debate on climate change as a whole, I have my view it may be right or wrong and it really does not matter very much. I do however believe that regardless of climate change it does behove us all to minimize our impact upon this world, this is creating excess carbon dioxide, deforestation, use of natural resources. I am not saying we should stop, just that we should be careful how we maintain our home, to me it is just like maintaining a house or RV if we take care of it, it will last a long time and look after us. For me my goal is very similar to climate change supporters but for a different purpose. I want to see more recycling and a reduction of fossil fuels because they are limited resources. (With metals and such until such time as mining the asteroid belt is possible). I would like to see sustainable replacement fuels simply because they are maintainable.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by jpgale

I don't want to get into the debate on climate change as a whole, I have my view it may be right or wrong and it really does not matter very much. I do however believe that regardless of climate change it does behove us all to minimize our impact upon this world, this is creating excess carbon dioxide, deforestation, use of natural resources. I am not saying we should stop, just that we should be careful how we maintain our home, to me it is just like maintaining a house or RV if we take care of it, it will last a long time and look after us. For me my goal is very similar to climate change supporters but for a different purpose. I want to see more recycling and a reduction of fossil fuels because they are limited resources. (With metals and such until such time as mining the asteroid belt is possible). I would like to see sustainable replacement fuels simply because they are maintainable.

VERY well said, and I agree. I'm not as concerned with whether we are changing our climate as I am with finding more efficient ways to live here.

On another note, at least according to most of what I've read, there are more ways to predict/determine temperature than reading a thermometer. If you can determine CO2 saturation in the atmosphere at various times in history (say for example, in ice cores), and that correlates with global average temperature (if that is truly determinable), then it stands to reason that at the CO2 saturation levels we're observing now (apparently, astronomically higher than at any determinable point in history), the temperature would correlate relatively predictably. On a global scale.

If scientists are wrong, their theory or hypothesis doesn't stand up for whatever reason, what's the harm in reducing our consumption of non-renewable resources? What's the harm in reducing our carbon output? I just don't see a downside, regardless of the motivation... Trying to scare people with doom and gloom is not the right approach either way.

ETA: I forgot to add how ironic it is that most of us consume fuel at a MUCH higher rate than the general population! LOL!!!

[redsnapper]

Scientists can determine and make the call, the globe is warming, based on 150 years of exams, with a planet that is billions of years old.

Ok got that

[billjmck]

I like the way you think!!!

Sorry, I was referring to Spoon059 earlier today.

[Seann45]

"Global Warming" has been happening for the last 10,000 years ever since the Glaciers started melting.. Its been a cycle on this planet ever since we got an atmosphere. BUT as stated on here earlier we need to be concerned about the air we breathe and how we treat the planet. Over population is the biggest factor.. How much farm land have we lost in the last 20 years?

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Seann45

"Global Warming" has been happening for the last 10,000 years ever since the Glaciers started melting.. Its been a cycle on this planet ever since we got an atmosphere. BUT as stated on here earlier we need to be concerned about the air we breathe and how we treat the planet. Over population is the biggest factor.. How much farm land have we lost in the last 20 years?

Land use is an excellent point. I have some VERY large agricultural clients, and farm land is getting harder and harder to come by. Thousands of acres are being "lost" to residential development. Every acre that is developed is another acre that can't be farmed.

That being said, yields are FAR more efficient than they have ever been. My guys can get SIGNIFICANTLY more yield out of every acre than they could even 10 or 20 years ago. The improvements over the last 5 decades or so are staggering.