What Am I Missing?

[Jerry713]

I’ve been watching commercials for a while now on vehicles with a hands free driving feature and, now hands free towing. What is the purpose or benefit of being able to drive with no hands. Why would anyone want to tow a trailer and not be in control of the steering wheel? What am I missing?

[norty1]

Originally Posted by Jerry713

What am I missing?

You are still sane!

[JFlightRisk]

I would not. Towing or not, I'm steerin'.

[Midnightmoon]

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm behind the time, but have no desire to turn my driving over to the vehicle. Heck, I still daily drive a manual transmission. Maybe I'll move to an automatic before I give up the steering to the computer...LOL

[Route 66 Traveler]

Got to be driving insurance companies nuts. Dumbest idea ever. I drive a car with “Lane Assist” that sometimes wants to veer to the right when going by an off-ramp when I am wanting to go straight.

If I wasn’t holding the steering wheel it would take the off-ramp at 75mph. Luckily there is a switch to turn it off!

[dwaynebmsg]

First thing I did when we got our Lexus was turn off the "Lane Assist".

[Riich]

Eventually I want to buy a Class C and it will be nice to be able to get out of the driver's seat and go make myself a sandwich. And maybe I'll make one for the wife too if she's been a good girl.

[Route 66 Traveler]

Let us know how that works out!

[norty1]

I see many problems for insurance companies. Oh well, us owners can claim we are not at fault.

[Jerry713]

Originally Posted by norty1

I see many problems for insurance companies. Oh well, us owners can claim we are not at fault.

I agree I’m surprised insurance companies even insure one of these vehicles. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are exclusions in some auto insurance policies that exclude damages related to this feature.

I see no benefit whatsoever from hands free driving.

[Jayflight 23]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

Got to be driving insurance companies nuts. Dumbest idea ever. I drive a car with “Lane Assist” that sometimes wants to veer to the right when going by an off-ramp when I am wanting to go straight.

If I wasn’t holding the steering wheel it would take the off-ramp at 75mph. Luckily there is a switch to turn it off!

Yes, that truly drives me nuts. lol While there are many new features in the newer vehicles, I believe that the self driving feature and the acceptance falls right in line with people not thinking with any common sense, which is truly needed in so many areas. Yes there are things that proven to makes no sense.

[Camper_bob]

I know my wife's Tahoe has "lane assist" or whatever it's called, and it gives the driver all kinds of "notifications" when it activates. You also have to acknowledge a warning next time the vehicle is started if any of those "nanny" features come on.

That lane assist gets SUPER annoying sometimes; when it activates, it's not a nice gentle nudge to the steering, it's a severe jolt, which causes problems when towing.

The only "automatic driving" feature I'm interested in is cruise control. I don't want or need a "self-driving" vehicle that can't see what I can see when I'm driving. And I shouldn't have to override a safety feature in order to drive safely. If you regularly depend on the vehicle and its computers to drive for you, you probably shouldn't be driving IMO.

[Route 66 Traveler]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

. If you regularly depend on the vehicle and its computers to drive for you, you probably shouldn't be driving IMO.

I feel the same about airliners that can land themselves! I watched a YouTube video of a cockpit video made during a takeoff in a 737 from a busy airport. During the time from first rolling down the runway, climb out and banking in a turn NEITHER pilot looked out the window once! Scary to think that they were completely relying on an air traffic controller to keep them...and the passengers...safe.

[Camper_bob]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

I feel the same about airliners that can land themselves! I watched a YouTube video of a cockpit video made during a takeoff in a 737 from a busy airport. During the time from first rolling down the runway, climb out and banking in a turn NEITHER pilot looked out the window once! Scary to think that they were completely relying on an air traffic controller to keep them...and the passengers...safe.

I see your point, but that's a bit different IMO. ATC knows the exact position of every aircraft out there, where it's going and how fast. The same cannot be said for an "autonomous" vehicle on a roadway surrounded by EXTREMELY unpredictable and unidentified vehicles and obstructions all being operated by EXTREMELY unpredictable and far less "trained" drivers.

To me it's an "all or none" proposition. Either ALL of the vehicles are "autonomous" and talking to each other, or NONE of them should be. There's no way a machine can read the road and have any chance at anticipating behavior like an experienced driver. One very real example is being able to see through the windows of the vehicle in front of you and see what the next vehicle is doing. Seeing the vehicle 2 or 3 in front of me apply their brakes has saved me a collision SEVERAL times. When the driver in between is not paying attention and has to slam on their brakes, but I've already backed off and am applying my brakes nice and easy. No way a machine can do that.

[Route 66 Traveler]

Originally Posted by Camper_bob

ATC knows the exact position of every aircraft out there, where it's going and how fast.

True, but ATC personnel are human and make mistakes. I flew my own private plane in the crowded skies of Southern California for over 10 years and 4 times I had ATC turn me into oncoming traffic instead of away. Seems they confused calling traffic at 10 o’clock instead of the correct 2 o’clock position. Once on a flight to Catalina Island we were eye wittinesses to a near mid air collision between 2 747’s over the Catalina VOR. I was just about to notify ATC when the crew of the Qantas saw the United plane just in time to make a dramatic turn to avoid the collision. They immediately reported a near miss which would cause big problems for the controller. When I was a student pilot my instructor was always reminding me to “Keep your head on a swivel”…looking out the window for other traffic. Hopefully ATC has improved since my flying days..

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

... Hopefully ATC has improved since my flying days..

I wouldn't count on it, as recently reported about a week ago, the FAA announced that they are now actively recruiting those with severe intellectual disabilities and psychiatric disabilities. (btw, I support those with disabilities obtaining employment, but some jobs are better suited for those with disabilities than other jobs).

[Route 66 Traveler]

Yea, I read that. Unbelievable that we have reduced standards for almost every occupation. I started driving commercially in 1972 and it involved many written tests, a difficult driving test, a drug and background check. Even the military has lowered their standards which is scary.

Got my fingers crossed…we are flying from Las Vegas to San Antonio in the morning. Hope the plane holds together and the pilots are trained and sober, and ATC controllers have a lot of seniority!

[jetlag]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

I feel the same about airliners that can land themselves! I watched a YouTube video of a cockpit video made during a takeoff in a 737 from a busy airport. During the time from first rolling down the runway, climb out and banking in a turn NEITHER pilot looked out the window once! Scary to think that they were completely relying on an air traffic controller to keep them...and the passengers...safe.

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

True, but ATC personnel are human and make mistakes. I flew my own private plane in the crowded skies of Southern California for over 10 years and 4 times I had ATC turn me into oncoming traffic instead of away. Seems they confused calling traffic at 10 o’clock instead of the correct 2 o’clock position. Once on a flight to Catalina Island we were eye wittinesses to a near mid air collision between 2 747’s over the Catalina VOR. I was just about to notify ATC when the crew of the Qantas saw the United plane just in time to make a dramatic turn to avoid the collision. They immediately reported a near miss which would cause big problems for the controller. When I was a student pilot my instructor was always reminding me to “Keep your head on a swivel”…looking out the window for other traffic. Hopefully ATC has improved since my flying days..

Originally Posted by craigav

I wouldn't count on it, as recently reported about a week ago, the FAA announced that they are now actively recruiting those with severe intellectual disabilities and psychiatric disabilities. (btw, I support those with disabilities obtaining employment, but some jobs are better suited for those with disabilities than other jobs).

Takeoff in an airliner is a busy time and we rely on ATC, along with the TCAS system I will address below. All aircraft flying in controlled airspace, which encompasses most airport terminal areas are required to have an operating transponder that is independent of any ground system. Assuming ATC somehow makes a mistake, TCAS will detect another aircraft on a collision course. It works well and may require abrupt altitude changes. The system alert you loudly to monitor a developing situation, or climb/descend. The last two will require immediate response. We trained for this in the simulator over and over. It's not pretty, but it works well. It has been around for many many years now. Over 34.5 years flying airliners I was involved in just a few real TCAS alerts. The first warning will paint a target in instruments. The next warning will ask you to monitor vertical speed. The system will paint a target in our instruments, and tell us whether he is below/above and climbing /descending. This warning was somewhat more common and most of the time resolved itself as the system was detecting a potential collision situation. This could happen if you you or the other traffic were climbing/descending to an assigned altitude at a higher rate than what the system thought it might be normal. The system does not know what the other target's assigned altitude is. Once the potential issue is resolved, it goes away. The next step is where you will more than likely piss off flight attendants and any unbuckled passenger lol. It will issue a climb/descent command, paint the target in red, and add a rate of climb/descent indicator in feet per minute required to avoid the other target. It requires immediate response. It will wake you up in a hurry! BTW- the system works anywhere and any altitude as long as you both have a transponder. I would rather be in the cockpit anytime rather than in a car, and feel far safer. ok, enough of a rant


PS- disregard the requirement indicated below. ATC will not allow you in any terminal area with radar without a transponder except in an emergency. And yes, stuff happens, yet flying is far safer than driving to the grocery store.



A traffic collision avoidance system (TCAS, pronounced /tiːkæs/; TEE-kas), also known as a traffic alert and collision avoidance system, is an aircraft collision avoidance system designed to reduce the incidence of mid-air collision (MAC) between aircraft. It monitors the airspace around an aircraft for other aircraft equipped with a corresponding active transponder, independent of air traffic control, and warns pilots of the presence of other transponder-equipped aircraft which may present a threat of MAC. It is a type of airborne collision avoidance system mandated by the International Civil Aviation Organization to be fitted to all aircraft with a maximum take-off mass (MTOM) of over 5,700 kg (12,600 lb) or authorized to carry more than 19 passengers. CFR 14, Ch I, part 135 requires that TCAS I be installed for aircraft with 10-30 passengers and TCAS II for aircraft with more than 30 passengers. ACAS/TCAS is based on secondary surveillance radar (SSR) transponder signals, but operates independently of ground-based equipment to provide advice to the pilot on potentially conflicting aircraft.
Combined TCAS and EHSI cockpit display (color) In modern glass cockpit aircraft, the TCAS display may be integrated in the Navigation Display (ND) or Electronic Horizontal Situation Indicator (EHSI).
Combined TCAS and VSI cockpit display (monochrome) In older glass cockpit aircraft and those with mechanical instrumentation, an integrated TCAS display including an instantaneous vertical speed indicator (IVSI) may replace the mechanical IVSI, which only indicates the rate at which the aircraft is descending or climbing.

[Route 66 Traveler]

Great explanation, thanks for taking the time to go into detail. The incident we witnessed was way before TCAS, like mid-90's. It was a clear day, we we cruising at 8500' about 10 miles from Catalina airport where we were going for lunch. We were working with the same controller as the 747's. The VOR on Catalina was used as a waypoint for aircraft inbound to LAX from points West. What we saw was like a movie in slow motion. The 747's were clearly visible to us, both at same altitude and slowing converging while both were headed to the VOR. ATC seemed to completely ignore what he was seeing on radar, but it was so obvious to us. They came so close to colliding that the United pilot came on the radio and calmly stated "Nice paint job Qantas!" They both notified ATC and requested a near miss report be filed.

So "Stuff" happens, hopefully not today. We are out the door and headed to see the grand kids in San Antonio!

[jetlag]

Have a great trip