Converting from 30a to 50a

[Route 66 Traveler]

Originally Posted by Vicr

This is about wire size and over current device settings, not about legs and voltage. Please re-read my previous post. A 30 amp RV service cord is rated at 30 amps so you can't plug it into a 50 amp circuit.

Why would wire size make a difference? Anything over 30 amps is going to trip the breaker inside the RV. Thousands of those adapters have been used for many years without a problem.

[JimD]

This is the panel that is installed in my 30 amp rig. Progressive Dynamics 5500.

[Vicr]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

Why would wire size make a difference? Anything over 30 amps is going to trip the breaker inside the RV. Thousands of those adapters have been used for many years without a problem.

I don't write the code and I don't enforce it but I have worked under the NEC for 38 years. The code doesn't make make provisions to what could be unknowns. Who is to say an RV has a 30 amp main breaker installed? Maybe the RV supply cord is wired directly to the bus? Article 240 is expressly written to protect conductors from over current conditions. Most people on these internet boards cry about manufactures who produce poor quality products and then in the same sentence complain about codes and laws that are in place to protect them and their property.

[JimD]

Something just came to mind. If you have a generator you would also have to change the transfer switch. Also, your current generator would not be able to work with the two separate busses. This would be my game changer.

[pconroy]

Originally Posted by Vicr

The over current protection (breaker) for the 50 amp pedestal receptacle is 50 amps. The conductors in the RV supply cable is rated for 30 amps therefore the supply cable conductors are undersized to be on a 50 amp circuit.
NEC Article 240.

Given our litigious society, color me skeptical. They're still on the market, you can buy them at a variety of places, including Walmart.


I'd be inclined to believe that if they were against code, given the number of RV fires and the deep pockets of Walmart, there would have been lawsuits. Including those started by the insurance companies.


You may be right, but I'm trying to find out as well.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Vicr

I don't write the code and I don't enforce it but I have worked under the NEC for 38 years. The code doesn't make make provisions to what could be unknowns. Who is to say an RV has a 30 amp main breaker installed? Maybe the RV supply cord is wired directly to the bus? Article 240 is expressly written to protect conductors from over current conditions. Most people on these internet boards cry about manufactures who produce poor quality products and then in the same sentence complain about codes and laws that are in place to protect them and their property.

Keep in mind that if a 30a RV doesn't have a 30a main breaker, then that RV isn't up to code to start with. Not to go deep, but the NEC codes for RV's are listed separately under the NEC codebook section 551 (part IV - 551.40 specific to this topic) as they are a little bit different than other "non-RV" specific NEC codes, therefore RV's have their own NEC codebook section.

In any case, can you plug in a 30a RV to a 50a plug with an adapter? Yes you certainly can and many people do just that, is there some code that says not to do that, perhaps so. The NEC code I referenced doesn't actually say anything about adapters, with that in mind, I make no claims that any such adapter meets any specific code requirement, just that they are commonly in use and that they do allow a 30a rv to plug into a 50a receptacle.

~CA

[Vicr]

Originally Posted by pconroy

Given our litigious society, color me skeptical. They're still on the market, you can buy them at a variety of places, including Walmart.


I'd be inclined to believe that if they were against code, given the number of RV fires and the deep pockets of Walmart, there would have been lawsuits. Including those started by the insurance companies.


You may be right, but I'm trying to find out as well.

"when used" I wrote. This is where the lawyers step in and deny a fire claim because the dogbone adaptor is a device which is a vehicle to skirting the code and the consumer has the decision not to use them or use them whether or not they are aware of the consequences. Trust me part of my job is to keep our very large electrical contracting company out of harms way and in total compliance with codes, laws and statutes.

[JimD]

Wow, this discussion on the 50 amp to 30 amp adapter got me to thinking since I carry one. I looked up the specs on the adapter and see it is only rated for 30 amps and uses 10 gauge wire. So as others have mentioned, how can this be plugged into a 50 amp service.

The purpose of a circuit breaker, as I have been taught (somehow, don't remember how), is to protect the wiring and not the item that is plugged in. So, you are plugging in an adapter into an outlet that is fused at 50 amps and then connecting your 30 amp capable power cord into this adapter.

This then is fusing your complete power cord which is only capable of 30 amps due to its wire size (I assume they aren't using heavy gauge wire capable of 50 amps) to a 50 amp breaker. Once the cable connects to the breaker panel inside your rig you are protected downstream by its 30 amp main breaker.

Odds are the 50 amp breaker would protect the complete power cord if there was a problem. But, there is a remote possibility that the cable could melt or catch fire if there was a problem between the pedestal and the rig's panel.

Will I lose sleep over this, no. Will I not use the adapter, no. So far I haven't had the need to use the adapter because I haven't encountered any bad 30 amp pedestals. What I will do is to make sure I absolutely have to plug into the 50 amp socket before switching over to the adaptor.

[Jagiven]

Your 23J, is basically the same HTT that I have. It is very doable.

Upgrading the the entire power control center in my opinion is a lot safer than using a dogbone to adapt from a 50 amp shore power post, to a 30 amp cord. As the cord between the TT power control center and shore power is not protected at the 30 amp rating that it should have.

The upgrade in theory is easy. New power distribution box, new properly sized wiring.
I would install a twist lock RV connector out side the RV were your current wire hole is at, then a new 50 amp RV cord. Pending on your hardware decisions, I cannot see it costing less than $500 if you do the work yourself.

Hardest part is pulling the old power control unit and making all the new wire connections through that small hole. When I pulled mine, my legs kept falling asleep.

[Vicr]

Originally Posted by craigav

Keep in mind that if a 30a RV doesn't have a 30a main breaker, then that RV isn't up to code to start with. Not to go deep, but the NEC codes for RV's are listed separately under the NEC codebook section 551 (part IV - 551.40 specific to this topic) as they are a little bit different than other "non-RV" specific NEC codes, therefore RV's have their own NEC codebook section.

In any case, can you plug in a 30a RV to a 50a plug with an adapter? Yes you certainly can and many people do just that, is there some code that says not to do that, perhaps so. The NEC code I referenced doesn't actually say anything about adapters, with that in mind, I make no claims that any such adapter meets any specific code requirement, just that they are commonly in use and that they do allow a 30a rv to plug into a 50a receptacle.

~CA

Yes, i am extremely well versed in the NEC code section 551 for RV's but article 551 does not supersede any other part of the NEC hence article 240 prevails on over current protection. Consumers can do anything they want with a product, doesn't mean that product is being used in a safe manner even when used for the purpose that it was designed.

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by JimD

Wow, this discussion on the 50 amp to 30 amp adapter got me to thinking since I carry one. I looked up the specs on the adapter and see it is only rated for 30 amps and uses 10 gauge wire. So as others have mentioned, how can this be plugged into a 50 amp service.

The purpose of a circuit breaker, as I have been taught (somehow, don't remember how), is to protect the wiring and not the item that is plugged in. So, you are plugging in an adapter into an outlet that is fused at 50 amps and then connecting your 30 amp capable power cord into this adapter.

This then is fusing your complete power cord which is only capable of 30 amps due to its wire size (I assume they aren't using heavy gauge wire capable of 50 amps) to a 50 amp breaker. Once the cable connects to the breaker panel inside your rig you are protected downstream by its 30 amp main breaker.

Odds are the 50 amp breaker would protect the complete power cord if there was a problem. But, there is a remote possibility that the cable could melt or catch fire if there was a problem between the pedestal and the rig's panel.

Will I lose sleep over this, no. Will I not use the adapter, no. So far I haven't had the need to use the adapter because I haven't encountered any bad 30 amp pedestals. What I will do is to make sure I absolutely have to plug into the 50 amp socket before switching over to the adaptor.

I avoid using my 50 amp adaptor unless absolutely a necessity. I wish there was some type of circuit breaker protection in the dogbone.

[Route 66 Traveler]

Originally Posted by JimD

Also, your current generator would not be able to work with the two separate busses.

My 3500 watt generator powers my 50amp travel trailer just fine. I use a Progressive 30 to 50 watt adapter, but of course that limits my power usage to 30 amps.

[craigav]

Originally Posted by slabat

if you have a camper that is 30A can you convert it to 50A easily?

Getting back to the gest of the question, if the question is can you run a 30a RV off of a 50A plug, then the answer is yes. I have been (and many of us perhaps) where all that was working or available was the 50a pedestal plug and used an adapter.

If the question is can I pull 50 amps inside the RV for say another a/c when I have a 30a RV, then certainly a lot more has to be done than what a 50 to 30 amp adapter provides for.

So it gets back to what the OP is thinking about doing, just plugging in because there is no 30a plug, or something more elaborate that requires more than 30 amps in the RV. ~CA

[craigav]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

My 3500 watt generator powers my 50amp travel trailer just fine. I use a Progressive 30 to 50 watt adapter, but of course that limits my power usage to 30 amps.

Keeping what style plug(s) the generator has aside for moment, a 3500w 120v generator doesn't put out more than 30 amps, so you should be good in any case.

Your generator likely has a twist-lock style plug (or similar) which as you mentioned has to have an adapter to mate to the 30a rv plug. ~CA

[JimD]

Originally Posted by Route 66 Traveler

My 3500 watt generator powers my 50amp travel trailer just fine. I use a Progressive 30 to 50 watt adapter, but of course that limits my power usage to 30 amps.

I was referring to a built-in generator that connects through an automatic transfer switch. The generators in 30 amp rigs only have a single power line while the ones in 50 amp rigs feed in 2 separate lines.

External generators plugged into the shore power cord operate differently. I have a small inverter generator that I plug into the power cord and love it for what I use it for.

[Jagiven]

Originally Posted by JimD

I was referring to a built-in generator that connects through an automatic transfer switch. The generators in 30 amp rigs only have a single power line while the ones in 50 amp rigs feed in 2 separate lines.

External generators plugged into the shore power cord operate differently. I have a small inverter generator that I plug into the power cord and love it for what I use it for.

The OP has a 23J which is a HTT, so there is no generator. It is one of the basic TTs.

[ALJO]

Why get excited, the OP Slabat hasn't even explained why he wants to increase from 30 to 50 Amp.? It is doable following proper code, but it is a costly process which doesn't provide much benefit for the size of the RV.

[SloPoke]

Originally Posted by Cavie

the short answer is yes, if you have enough money. It would be cheaper to learn "Energy Management" and burn gas when you can. You must change out the Circuit breaker box, ATS and shore power cord. $$$$$$$

Agree... and I have done it twice, both times to add a second AC. As Jim summarized it, our first swap was on our old Motorhome and we wanted a second AC for our trips boondocking along the shores of lake Mead. It was expensive, but I did all the work and saved the labor costs of an electrician. The 50A cord was more $$$ than the distribution panel, but it allowed us to run two AC units on a 5,500W Coleman Generator that had a twist lock receptacle.

Ten years later, we added a second AC to my buddies 5er. We again replaced the cord and the distribution panel, balanced the two legs as far as load and were able to power his rig with his Generac 6kw generator too. Many fantastic trips to the lake in 105F + temperature were possible.
Both of these did not use an ATS, as the only source was a portable genny we plugged the power cord into.

Originally Posted by Vicr

Short answer is YES. .....if you're an electrician.

Originally Posted by Vicr

And a National Electrical Code violation when used.

Funny, (not really funny, more like ironic) there was a thread about this about a year ago... it went the same way, It's all about protecting the wiring, not the appliance.

[slabat]

Originally Posted by curver900

why would you want to? extra air conditioner?

Yes, I would like to put an second air conditioner on my camper.

[slabat]

Originally Posted by Jagiven

The OP has a 23J which is a HTT, so there is no generator. It is one of the basic TTs.

I just upgraded last year and did not change my information. I have a 2020 White Hawk 31 BH now and am considering putting a second air on it.