GCWR- Law vs. Manufacturer

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

And I have a cousin who is a retired insurance adjuster and he said 99.9% of the time that is also a mute point.

I'd be more interested in what a lawyer would say. Adjusters are not the ones who would be leads in bringing or defending a civil suit. People in our society are litigious. There are people who actually make their living just suing others.

Originally Posted by 2edgesword

I for one can't understand how it would be legal to assume the truck and trailer are both maxed out and justify giving you a ticket. That would seem to violate the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. I'm assuming your truck can hit 90mph. Do you get a ticket assuming because the truck can reach that speed that you're guilt of speeding?

Getting a citation does not assume guilt. It's the LEO's job to make an assessment and issue the citation if they feel there is evidence of guilt. It's the courts job to prove you guilty.

[Grumpy]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

I'd be more interested in what a lawyer would say. Adjusters are not the ones who would be leads in bringing or defending a civil suit. People in our society are litigious. There are people who actually make their living just suing others.

Insurance companies are the ones usually sued. If you have a wreck, overloaded, driving too fast, texting, talking, eating or whatever you're at fault and could be sued. If the person injured doesn't like what your insurance is paying that's where the suits come in

[DocBrown]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Insurance companies are the ones usually sued. If you have a wreck, overloaded, driving too fast, texting, talking, eating or whatever you're at fault and could be sued. If the person injured doesn't like what your insurance is paying that's where the suits come in

But it's not the adjuster making the defense. It's the insurance company lawyers vs. the plaintiff's lawyers. The adjuster may be called to testify, but it's the court or jury that makes the final determination. Most of these kinds of cases are settled out of court, with no public record of the settlement, which is why it would be very hard to find out how many people have been found civilly liable for towing over manufacturers specifications. That's why it would interesting to get a lawyer's perspective. Anything else is just speculation.

[Grumpy]

My point is your insurance company still pays no matter what you did to cause the accident. Since everybody is "sue" happy I carried a $1,000.000 umbrella liability policy. You may get dropped after the claim is paid, but that's why you buy insurance.

[davolson]

We have the "same" set up with 2017 F250 diesel, 2018 28.5 RSTS. I too have struggled to figure out if we might be at or slightly over limits. I've tried to weigh each component at a local grain elevator scale loaded, but dont have each axle/total etc. I did find more specs specific to our truck at

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php which has been reassuring. FWIW have pulled it over 5 K miles and always handles beautifully but still hoping to nail down the numbers closer when ready for next trip.

[goducks]

Originally Posted by davolson

We have the "same" set up with 2017 F250 diesel, 2018 28.5 RSTS. I too have struggled to figure out if we might be at or slightly over limits. I've tried to weigh each component at a local grain elevator scale loaded, but dont have each axle/total etc. I did find more specs specific to our truck at

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/vindecoder.php which has been reassuring. FWIW have pulled it over 5 K miles and always handles beautifully but still hoping to nail down the numbers closer when ready for next trip.

Weigh the trucks front and rear loaded. Unhitch and go back and re-way the truck. It's not rocket science.

[davolson]

Correct. As I said, hadn't done it due to not having an easily accessible scale, or when at a truck stop, lines of big rigs to compete with etc etc. Not that i didn't know how. Rocket science is trying to figure out where and how to accomplish this at a busy J pilot or similar, fully loaded with dog/DW in pouring rain, line at the bathroom, and no place to park lol.

[goducks]

Originally Posted by davolson

Correct. As I said, hadn't done it due to not having an easily accessible scale, or when at a truck stop, lines of big rigs to compete with etc etc. Not that i didn't know how. Rocket science is trying to figure out where and how to accomplish this at a busy J pilot or similar, fully loaded with dog/DW in pouring rain, line at the bathroom, and no place to park lol.

Got it. Spoiled out here in Oregon. We have ODOT scales scattered all over the hwys. They're on 24/7/365 even if closed. You can pull in and weigh since the digital scale readout is still functioning.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by nighthawk87

Happens to folks heading to glamis all the time. CHP carries individual tire scales and passes out tickets or worse, tows you.

Was in Yellowstone last year and in one large parking lot, there were a couple dozen police & sheriff cars involved in some training.
One of the units had 6 or 8 HD platform scales in a permanent framework so clearly, these would be used at some point.

Cops were from WY, NV, CO, and MT.
You can draw your own conclusion.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by davolson

Correct. As I said, hadn't done it due to not having an easily accessible scale, or when at a truck stop, lines of big rigs to compete with etc etc. Not that i didn't know how. Rocket science is trying to figure out where and how to accomplish this at a busy J pilot or similar, fully loaded with dog/DW in pouring rain, line at the bathroom, and no place to park lol.

You can try Feed & Grain stores, building supply, gravel pits and cement companies.

[bono]

What are your conclusions, if I may ask?

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Was in Yellowstone last year and in one large parking lot, there were a couple dozen police & sheriff cars involved in some training.
One of the units had 6 or 8 HD platform scales in a permanent framework so clearly, these would be used at some point.

Cops were from WY, NV, CO, and MT.
You can draw your own conclusion.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by bono

What are your conclusions, if I may ask?

That some time somewhere some folks will get weighed. Most likely HD trucks but when someone puts a limit on load they usually have good reasons.

[Cannon]

In Georgia you must have a class E endorsement if combined weight rating of truck and trailer exceeds 26,000 lbs.

[RPR]

Please check and understand the info that is being repeated. Look up the DOT excemption regulation which covers and defines a RECREATIONAL VEHICLE. Federal DOT defines recreational vehicle different than a commercial vehicle. Personal pick up pulling a personal travel trailer is mentioned. Recreational use is the key. As mentioned before the DOT regulation book is over three inches thick and from personal experience DOT employees do not know everything that’s in it.

[71skyhawk]

In my second life I drove commercial longhaul flatdeck and you need to understand that the GCWR is the combined weight but the real numbers you want is the weight on a scale. Drive on scale till
1. only your front axle on middle of the scale; put in park, let scale "settle" - then record #. Then pull forward till only
2. Your rear axle on middle of the scale; repeat - then record # and pull forward again
3. till only BOTH trailer axles on the scale -put in park- - then record that #.

Add first two #'s and that is the weight on your truck - compare to manufacture limits on respective axles on the door sticker; you must be below each manufacturer axle max weight number
The 3rd weight is trailer axle weight and that should NEVER exceed trailer axle weight limits added together.

The total of 1+2+3 is your combined weight and CANNOT exceed truck manufacturer's GCVW. Any DOT highway scale will allow you to weight at no charge. I always weight several times a year with different loads [full fuel, 1/2 fuel, full water, no water, etc] and keep a log each time I weigh for reference; also shows I am being responsible if anybody ever stopped me to check.

You must be at or under the manufacturer weight for EACH axle. If you are over, your truck will still pull it but then your insurance may be invalid.

Nobody will ever give you a ticket without scaling you at a certified scale.

[PistonSlap]

Originally Posted by goducks

Got it. Spoiled out here in Oregon. We have ODOT scales scattered all over the hwys. They're on 24/7/365 even if closed. You can pull in and weigh since the digital scale readout is still functioning.

Same here in Idaho. There is one on my way out of town heading east on I-84 out of Boise. If it's closed I just roll in like I own the place and get my weight for the axles.

[Johnny Lightning]

Spoon059, for what it's worth, not every state has declared weights for non-commercial vehicles, I know Michigan does not. But then Michigan is home to the big 3 so we have some funny laws in the area of vehicles. I've seen declared weights more down south.

[Cincinnati Kid]

Originally Posted by 71skyhawk

In my second life I drove commercial longhaul flatdeck and you need to understand that the GCWR is the combined weight but the real numbers you want is the weight on a scale. Drive on scale till
1. only your front axle on middle of the scale; put in park, let scale "settle" - then record #. Then pull forward till only
2. Your rear axle on middle of the scale; repeat - then record # and pull forward again
3. till only BOTH trailer axles on the scale -put in park- - then record that #.

Add first two #'s and that is the weight on your truck - compare to manufacture limits on respective axles on the door sticker; you must be below each manufacturer axle max weight number
The 3rd weight is trailer axle weight and that should NEVER exceed trailer axle weight limits added together.

The total of 1+2+3 is your combined weight and CANNOT exceed truck manufacturer's GCVW. Any DOT highway scale will allow you to weight at no charge. I always weight several times a year with different loads [full fuel, 1/2 fuel, full water, no water, etc] and keep a log each time I weigh for reference; also shows I am being responsible if anybody ever stopped me to check.

You must be at or under the manufacturer weight for EACH axle. If you are over, your truck will still pull it but then your insurance may be invalid.

Nobody will ever give you a ticket without scaling you at a certified scale.

Thanks. More clear evidence that it's the actual combined weights, not the combination of the GCWRs that matter.

[Jacotim]

California is the land of Fruits and Nuts. Neither are edible

[2edgesword]

Originally Posted by DocBrown

Getting a citation does not assume guilt. It's the LEO's job to make an assessment and issue the citation if they feel there is evidence of guilt. It's the courts job to prove you guilty.

Are you saying a LEO can judge with accuracy how much two vehicles weight just by looking at them? And that assessment of weight is sufficient to claim the individual is guilty of an overweight violation justifying issuing a citiation?

I realize if you've seen enough cars going 65mph in a 55mph zone you can become accurate at assessing excessive speed. I've never hear that rational used for assessing the weight of two vehicles. If you have I'd been interested in reading some background information on that.