Opinions/thoughts on why my towing stability went sideways.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 10:36 AM

I have a 2014 F150 XLT, SCAB, 4x4, Max Tow and HDPP (which has 3.73 rear axle, and 8' box). My trailer is a 23RB. The WDH is a Blue Ox Sway Pro w/ 1k springs.

I've had this combo for many miles, including a 8900 mile trip from VA to FL to the Rockies, high plains, etc. It's been one of the best towing combos around. 99.9% of 18 wheelers never bothered the combo. Medium winds never pushed the front end of the truck much.

However, Thursday, I finally took off the OEM BFG Rugged Trail T/A LT245/75R17 LRE tires that had 71K miles on them and replaced with BFG All Terrain KO2's of the exact same size.

Yet Friday, the tow was most unpleasant. The front end was so squirrel-ly it was most unpleasant to drive. The front end really felt it was too light, as if not enough weight had been shifted back to the front axle. I was very careful to use exactly 9 links like I have always done.

Could the new tires have caused the problem? That's the only thing that has changed. Would putting more air in the rear tires make a difference. I put in the same amount as called for on the yellow sticker on the truck door jam, 60# as I did for the front tires, 55#.

Could counting down to the 10th link put more weight to the front axle, and help the towing?

ASTMedic · 05-28-2019, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlee

I have a 2014 F150 XLT, SCAB, 4x4, Max Tow and HDPP (which has 3.73 rear axle, and 8' box). My trailer is a 23RB. The WDH is a Blue Ox Sway Pro w/ 1k springs.

I've had this combo for many miles, including a 8900 mile trip from VA to FL to the Rockies, high plains, etc. It's been one of the best towing combos around. 99.9% of 18 wheelers never bothered the combo. Medium winds never pushed the front end of the truck much.

However, Thursday, I finally took off the OEM BFG Rugged Trail T/A LT245/75R17 LRE tires that had 71K miles on them and replaced with BFG All Terrain KO2's of the exact same size.

Yet Friday, the tow was most unpleasant. The front end was so squirrel-ly it was most unpleasant to drive. The front end really felt it was too light, as if not enough weight had been shifted back to the front axle. I was very careful to use exactly 9 links like I have always done.

Could the new tires have caused the problem? That's the only thing that has changed. Would putting more air in the rear tires make a difference. I put in the same amount as called for on the yellow sticker on the truck door jam, 60# as I did for the front tires, 55#.

Could counting down to the 10th link put more weight to the front axle, and help the towing?

Measure the front end unloaded and loaded with bars on. See if you're getting good return of the front end.

curver900 · 05-28-2019, 10:45 AM

is the load rating the same??? from tire to tire?

My guess is the sidewall on the new tire has more flex than the old one.. and the tread is probably different as well... tires can cause all kinds of changes...

If that is the only change you made then it is the tires.

a quick look the load rating on the OEM is 119 (2998 lbs) the load rating on your new ones is 104 (2094lbs). second the weight of the tires are 5lbs different...
the max psi is 80 on the OEM and only 50 on the new ones.. are you sure they have enough load capacity for your trailer???

**Midnightmoon** · 05-28-2019, 11:07 AM

Many people refer to it as "tread squirm" on new tires. Very common complaint on one of the diesel forums I frequent. Quite possibly those tires will wear in and become more secure once the new wears off.

It is also possible that the tread pattern is just more agressivie than what you hand before contributing to a different feel.

I certainly believe it is tire related and not truck or hitch related. It would be too much of a coincidence of something else happened at the same time you changed tires.

fast_st · 05-28-2019, 02:08 PM

I'm thinking Curver is on the right path. If you had your tires on and inflated you may have had them up to the sidewall pressure rating where a tire tech will inflate to the door tag numbers which is usually a super soft setting for a F150, not a load carrying or towing number by any means.

Keep your tired aired up stiff in the rear for towing. A different tire may have a different size profile even though it claims to be the same tire. I would go through the full set up on the tension bars again.

Flyrotor · 05-28-2019, 03:26 PM

I'm going to say it is all your tires, take them back, if you bought them from Discount Tire, they will probably exchange them for you, make sure you get the proper load rating.

oldmanAZ · 05-28-2019, 03:35 PM

Yes, air pressure matters. I suggest inflating all your tires to the maximum shown on the tire sidewalls and see if that does the trick. It's cheap, easy, and you will know quickly if it helps or not.

jimp · 05-28-2019, 05:30 PM

Joining the "its the tires" wagon, but I would increase the PSI by 5# at a time and see if it improves or not. Making a big jump in PSI probably won't tell you much. Experimenting with different PSI front/rear can probably solve your issue.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTMedic

Measure the front end unloaded and loaded with bars on. See if you're getting good return of the front end.

Nothing changed but the tires from the 8900 mile trip we took pulling the exact same trailer. Weight should have been near the same.

The biggest variable in weight with the trailer would be water in the two tanks that are just forward of the axles. I've carried as little as 10-15 gallons, and as much as 86 gallons, and the trailer has tracked the same, as has the truck.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curver900

is the load rating the same??? from tire to tire?

My guess is the sidewall on the new tire has more flex than the old one.. and the tread is probably different as well... tires can cause all kinds of changes...

If that is the only change you made then it is the tires.

a quick look the load rating on the OEM is 119 (2998 lbs) the load rating on your new ones is 104 (2094lbs). second the weight of the tires are 5lbs different...
the max psi is 80 on the OEM and only 50 on the new ones.. are you sure they have enough load capacity for your trailer???

I wouldn't think the new tires had more wall flex, but I could be wrong. The old tires were OEM LT245/75R17 LRE Rugged trail T/A by BFG. The new tires are LT245/75R17 LRE All Terrain T/A KO2 also by BFG.

The KO2s have a much larger shoulder block arrangement. The Max load for each tire is 3195#, max pressure is the same for both, 80# psi, Section width is 9.8" for both, as is the diameter, 31.5" and revolutions per mile, 660.

However, the KO2s weigh more, 3 pounds heavier, greater tread depth, 15 to 14.5, greater tread width 8.1" to 7.6".

The old tires certainly had the capacity, and the new tires are equal to or larger in every category.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midnightmoon

Many people refer to it as "tread squirm" on new tires. Very common complaint on one of the diesel forums I frequent. Quite possibly those tires will wear in and become more secure once the new wears off.

It is also possible that the tread pattern is just more aggressive than what you hand before contributing to a different feel.

I certainly believe it is tire related and not truck or hitch related. It would be too much of a coincidence of something else happened at the same time you changed tires.

Maybe the tires need to be "broken" in.

The tread design is exactly the same as the tires I took off, however, the tread width is .5" wider, and the tread depth on the new tire is .5 deeper.

Another thing that is much more agressive on the KO2s is the large block shoulder design. The shoulder design on the old tires was smaller and more rounded.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fast_st

I'm thinking Curver is on the right path. If you had your tires on and inflated you may have had them up to the sidewall pressure rating where a tire tech will inflate to the door tag numbers which is usually a super soft setting for a F150, not a load carrying or towing number by any means.

Keep your tired aired up stiff in the rear for towing. A different tire may have a different size profile even though it claims to be the same tire. I would go through the full set up on the tension bars again.

The old tires which were also LRE LT tires were always aired to 60# in the rear, and 55#, whether I was towing or not. I aired the new tires to the same amount of air. I don't consider that to be a super soft inflation, but it's certainly far from the most air I can put in them.

Once I get the trailer back from the dealer, where it's in for warranty work, I'll air up the tires more and see if that helps.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyrotor

I'm going to say it is all your tires, take them back, if you bought them from Discount Tire, they will probably exchange them for you, make sure you get the proper load rating.

I got the tires from Sam's Club, but they are definitely the proper load rating. I replaced the exact same size as originally came on the truck.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

Yes, air pressure matters. I suggest inflating all your tires to the maximum shown on the tire sidewalls and see if that does the trick. It's cheap, easy, and you will know quickly if it helps or not.

I'll do this in a week when I get my trailer back.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

Yes, air pressure matters. I suggest inflating all your tires to the maximum shown on the tire sidewalls and see if that does the trick. It's cheap, easy, and you will know quickly if it helps or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimp

Joining the "its the tires" wagon, but I would increase the PSI by 5# at a time and see if it improves or not. Making a big jump in PSI probably won't tell you much. Experimenting with different PSI front/rear can probably solve your issue.

I tend to be impatient with this stuff, and would tend to just air to the max to find out if that were the problem. I'll try to have patience and do the air inflation incrementally.

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 08:26 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions I've received. Since the consensus seems to be largely air pressure related, that's where I'll start first. Plus, I'll probably have over a thousand miles on the new tires by the time I tow it again, so the tires should be thoroughly "broken" in.

Timber · 05-28-2019, 09:06 PM

I see that your truck is a 2014 and the trailer is a 2017, so I assume when you started towing it your tires all ready had X amount of mileage on them, which would make them less flexible than your new tires. New tires with deeper lugs will be a little more flexible so hoping that the added air pressure will help you

Atlee · 05-28-2019, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timber

I see that your truck is a 2014 and the trailer is a 2017, so I assume when you started towing it your tires all ready had X amount of mileage on them, which would make them less flexible than your new tires. New tires with deeper lugs will be a little more flexible so hoping that the added air pressure will help you

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely air up the new tires when I hook up the trailer next week.

fast_st · 05-29-2019, 04:36 AM

You could try adding a thousand pounds of bbq and your favorite beverage to the truck bed.

twin88cam · 05-29-2019, 06:11 AM

The KO2's have a more open shoulder/ outside rib tread that will contribute to the instability of the tire, tread squirm. This is the same reason a lot of long haul, over the road tires have a solid, or almost solid outer rib, helps with tread wear and stability. They may stiffen up in time as the tire heat cycles, and the tread wearing down will also help. As you drive and get use to it, you will probably not notice as much either.

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