Recommended WDH for White Hawk 29BH

[Texdan25]

I am thinking about getting a 29BH (moving up from a White Hawk 27DSRL). Published tongue weight is 730 or so I think. I have an Equalizer E2 WDH rated at 1000/10,000. Would I be OK with this? What all is affecting the Tongue Weight other that propane tanks, water, etc? Can heavier spring bars be purchased separately or would I need a whole new WDH setup?



I got this response from Rustic Eagle on another thread:


The recommended "loaded" tongue weight for a 29BH (35ft. long, 8,500lb GVWR) would be in the 13% to 15% range of the TT's gross loaded weight. A TT's gross loaded weight is dependent on one's personal cargo loading requirements/habits. IMO a 1,200lb rated WDH would better address potential loaded tongue weight range of the 29BH. Your present 1,000lb rated WDH will work, but you will have to confirm your typical loading requirement. Average 29BH "as shipped" UVW's are around 7,300lbs (yellow sticker).

CAT scale how-to: https://www.jaycoowners.com/forums/f...v-tt-3871.html

Feel free to start a new dedicated thread (better JOF visibility/replies) if you have additional WDH, weight, towing, etc., questions about the 29BH or your TV. This thread primarily focuses on loaded "scaled" tongue & pin weights.

Bob

[oldmanAZ]

I'd be concerned about sway issues...

IMO, because the 29BH is longer with an outside kitchen and likely more storage behind the rear axle, there may be a greater chance for sway issues.

You didn't mention the tow vehicle you'd be using or if you have any issues with sway with your current trailer & E-2 hitch.

So, if I were in your shoes (and the dealer wasn't offering to include a new hitch) I'd give your current hitch a shot with the idea of buying a new hitch (IMO, Equalizer brand 4-point 1,200/12,000) if you find you have any concerns after towing your loaded 29BH.

[Rustic Eagle]

Texdan25,

Originally Posted by Texdan25

snip...... Can heavier spring bars be purchased separately or would I need a whole new WDH setup?.......snip

Good question......., I'm not familiar with the Fastway e2 WDH ball mount/spring bar design/rating compatibly (1,000lb & 1,200lb spring bar compatible with same ball mount), but I'm sure someone will chime in that is.

Here's a little more insight behind my prior 1,200lb WDH recommendation for the 29BH:

Hypothetical moderately loaded 29BH: (7,300lb UVW - yellow sticker) + (500lbs cargo - no fluids) + (50lbs dealer-battery, etc.) = 7,850lbs gross weight

Loaded tongue weight range: (7,850lbs gross weight) = 1,020lbs to 1,178lbs

Loaded tongue weight range with 42 gallons (350lbs) freshwater: (8,200lbs gross weight) = 1,066lbs to 1,230lbs

As mentioned, we all have different loading habits that effect our TV/TT weights.

Bob

[Texdan25]

Originally Posted by oldmanAZ

I'd be concerned about sway issues...

IMO, because the 29BH is longer with an outside kitchen and likely more storage behind the rear axle, there may be a greater chance for sway issues.

You didn't mention the tow vehicle you'd be using or if you have any issues with sway with your current trailer & E-2 hitch.

So, if I were in your shoes (and the dealer wasn't offering to include a new hitch) I'd give your current hitch a shot with the idea of buying a new hitch (IMO, Equalizer brand 4-point 1,200/12,000) if you find you have any concerns after towing your loaded 29BH.

Thanks Oldman,
MY TV is a 2013 Chevy Diesel 2500HD, and I have had no sway problems towing the White Hawk 27DSRL. It's 30 ft. long overall with a TW of 550 or so, GVWR of 7500. Good point about the sway due to outdoor kitchen and storage in the back (under the bunks). Hate to have to buy an $800+ hitch since I have a perfectly good one but guess that's the way it goes when you upsize!

[Texdan25]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Texdan25,



Good question......., I'm not familiar with the Fastway e2 WDH ball mount/spring bar design/rating compatibly (1,000lb & 1,200lb spring bar compatible with same ball mount), but I'm sure someone will chime in that is.

Here's a little more insight behind my prior 1,200lb WDH recommendation for the 29BH:

Hypothetical moderately loaded 29BH: (7,300lb UVW - yellow sticker) + (500lbs cargo - no fluids) + (50lbs dealer-battery, etc.) = 7,850lbs gross weight

Loaded tongue weight range: (7,850lbs gross weight) = 1,020lbs to 1,178lbs

Loaded tongue weight range with 42 gallons (350lbs) freshwater: (8,200lbs gross weight) = 1,066lbs to 1,230lbs

As mentioned, we all have different loading habits that effect our TV/TT weights.

Bob

Thanks again Bob, great example. I don't tow with fresh water so that's out of the equation. Would it help the tongue weight by removing the propane bottles and putting them in the front truck bed, I would think together they're probably 40 lbs. Or is that nit-picking? By the way, it looks like the Dry weight is around 6900 lbs.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Texdan25

snip....... Would it help the tongue weight by removing the propane bottles and putting them in the front truck bed, I would think together they're probably 40 lbs. Or is that nit-picking? By the way, it looks like the Dry weight is around 6900 lbs.

Texdan25,

Personally, I would leave the LP tanks mounted to the TT, much safer there and not worth the aggravation for the net tongue weight actually saved. You have an adequate 3/4 ton TV, sounds like possibly just a spring bar rating issue thus far. Give "Fastway" a call and see if the spring bars are interchangeable (upgrade to a 1,200lb bar)....., cheaper than a new WDH!

The dry weight of "around 6,900lbs" you referenced is Jayco's "published" (web site, brochure, etc.) UVW weight, not a "as-shipped" UVW.

There is a yellow sticker attached to the side of the TT that has the "as-shipped" UVW, and the 2019 sampling (3) of yellow stickers that I found (dealer inventory-internet) reflected between 7,320lbs - 7,390lbs for an "as-shipped" UVW for the 29BH.

Bob

[Texdan25]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Texdan25,

Personally, I would leave the LP tanks mounted to the TT, much safer there and not worth the aggravation for the net tongue weight actually saved. You have an adequate 3/4 ton TV, sounds like possibly just a spring bar rating issue thus far. Give "Fastway" a call and see if the spring bars are interchangeable (upgrade to a 1,200lb bar)....., cheaper than a new WDH!

The dry weight of "around 6,900lbs" you referenced is Jayco's "published" (web site, brochure, etc.) UVW weight, not a "as-shipped" UVW.

There is a yellow sticker attached to the side of the TT that has the "as-shipped" UVW, and the 2019 sampling (3) of yellow stickers that I found (dealer inventory-internet) reflected between 7,320lbs - 7,390lbs for an "as-shipped" UVW for the 29BH.

Bob

Thanks Bob, great info. After doing a lot of research last night on here I have decided that 'if' we get the 29BH I will buy an Equal-i-zer due to the 4 point system and higher quality. Here's a question for you: if I can get a 1400 TW rated for about the same price as a 1200 would that be the way to go? Some folks say an over-rated WDH can damage the TT while someone else said they talked to Equal-i-zer and was told it would not hurt anything. Thanks for all the advise!

[Rustic Eagle]

Texdan25,

Originally Posted by Texdan25

snip....... folks say an over-rated WDH can damage the TT while someone else said they talked to Equal-i-zer and was told it would not hurt anything......snip

Yes, in some cases a WDH rated too high for an application (overkill) can be problematic......, especially with a lightweight model TT a-frame that has a WDH rate limit attached to it. In some cases a TV with a soft suspension one might experience a "stiff" towing experience with an obviously over rated WDH.

With your TV/TT (3/4 ton/29BH) combination the use of a 1,400lb rated WDH wouldn't be considered "overkill" considering a 1,000lb to 1,200lb loaded tongue weight range is highly probable..., and most CAT scale results reflect loaded tongue weights closer to 15% of gross weight than 13%.

Originally Posted by Texdan25

snip....... if I can get a 1400 TW rated for about the same price as a 1200 would that be the way to go?....snip

I would, because there isn't a downside considering that a 1,200lb rated WDH would be my minimum recommendation for your TV/TT (29BH) combination. I also agree with 'oldmanAZ' that the Equal-i-zer's 4-point sway control would be a nice upgrade from your present Fastway e2 sway control.

My present TV/TT loaded combination has a scaled tongue weight of 1,100lbs (15%) and I use my 1,500lb rated WDH from my heavier-prior TT..., very pleased with the towing characteristics.

With any WDH proper adjustment is 'key' in optimizing the function/performance of the WDH.

Bob

[Texdan25]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Texdan25,



Yes, in some cases a WDH rated too high for an application (overkill) can be problematic......, primarily with a lightweight TT a-frame having a WDH rate limit attached to it. In some cases a TV with a soft suspension one might experience a "stiff" towing experience with an obviously over rated WDH.

With your TV/TT (3/4 ton/29BH) combination the use of a 1,400lb rated WDH wouldn't be considered "overkill" considering a 1,000lb to 1,200lb loaded tongue weight range is highly probable..., and most CAT scale results reflect loaded tongue weights closer to 15% of gross weight than 10%.



I would, because there isn't a downside considering that a 1,200lb rated WDH would be my minimum recommendation for your TV/TT (29BH) combination. I also agree with 'oldmanAZ' that the Equal-i-zer's 4-point sway control would be a nice upgrade from your present Fastway e2 sway control.

My present TV/TT loaded combination has a scaled tongue weight of 1,100lbs (15%) and I use my 1,500lb rated WDH from my heavier-prior TT..., very pleased with the towing characteristics.

With any WDH proper adjustment is 'key' in optimizing the function/performance of the WDH.

Bob

Thanks Bob, appreciate the feedback.

[mia389]

I use a Blue Ox Sway Pro for mine. I have a 29BH in the shop right now. I just checked the tongue weight on it. It is a customers in for service and its still packed with all his goodies. It was 875lbs. This unit only had 1 A/C installed. It also had a 170lb technician in it while I checked the tongue weight lol.

I have had a lot of customer complaints about the E2 hitches. We don't sell them here but some customers have them when they trade in and want to change out to Husky, Blue OX or Equalizers. I have personally used Blue OXs and Equalizers and both are excellent hitches. I prefer BlueOx as they are easier to hook up to and make no noise. I can always tell when I am camping when people pull in with Equalizers. They can make some noise.

[ALJO]

Before you buy a new WDH setup, why not try it out first and see how it performs for you? If the experience is negative you always can buy another setup. You can buy then a 1400 lbs. bar system. Higher bar ratings make the bounce less, that's my experience.

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by mia389

snip........I have a 29BH in the shop right now. I just checked the tongue weight on it. It is a customers in for service and its still packed with all his goodies. It was 875lbs. This unit only had 1 A/C installed. It also had a 170lb technician in it while I checked the tongue weight lol........snip

Interesting the 'loaded' 875lb reading is only 125lbs over the 29BH's published dry hitch weight.

Just curious, was the slide extended when the tongue was weighed ?..., I ask because an extended slide almost always gives a lighter tongue weight reading than a retracted slide. I found that out using my Sherline tongue weight scale on my retired Eagle TT, and was about where my tongue weight went compared to a prior CAT scale reading. I closed my slide and the Sherline added another 200lbs.

Bob

[mia389]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Interesting the 'loaded' 875lb reading is only 125lbs over the 29BH's published dry hitch weight.

Just curious, was the slide extended when the tongue was weighed ?..., I ask because an extended slide almost always gives a lighter tongue weight reading than a retracted slide. I found that out using my Sherline tongue weight scale on my retired Eagle TT, and was about where my tongue weight went compared to a prior CAT scale reading. I closed my slide and the Sherline added another 200lbs.

Bob

Slide out was in. I have found to add 100lbs to Jaycos published tongue weights listed in their spec guides to be pretty accurate when customers pick up their trailer. Of course this will go up when they start loading it up.

My tongue weight on my 29BH is a bit higher. Last time I checked right before I left on a 300 miles trip, it was at 980. Mine is fully loaded. Only option I don't have is the BAL automatic leveling jacks. My trailer was at 7200lbs. I thought I was packed very heavy but I still had 1300lbs I could of put in. Thats about 15% of weight on tongue.

[Texdan25]

Originally Posted by ALJO

Before you buy a new WDH setup, why not try it out first and see how it performs for you? If the experience is negative you always can buy another setup. You can buy then a 1400 lbs. bar system. Higher bar ratings make the bounce less, that's my experience.

I definitely get a lot of bounce with my 1000 lb. E2 while pulling my White Hawk 27DSRL (5500 dry, 7500 GVWR). With the trailer I'm considering I would be more concerned with more bounce and sway so figure the Equalizer is the way to go....

[Rustic Eagle]

mia389,

Appreciate the feedback.

Originally Posted by mia389

snip...... My tongue weight on my 29BH is a bit higher. Last time I checked right before I left on a 300 miles trip, it was at 980. Mine is fully loaded. Only option I don't have is the BAL automatic leveling jacks. My trailer was at 7200lbs. I thought I was packed very heavy but I still had 1300lbs I could of put in. Thats about 15% of weight on tongue.

I must be misinterpreting what your "7,200lbs" figure represents (TT axle weights ?, yellow sticker UVW ?) ....., what was the "gross weight" of your TT with your 980lb loaded tongue weight?

With 2019 29BH's as-shipped UVW's around 7,300lbs, I'm trying to figure how you ended up with 1,300lbs of additional cargo capacity available when fully loaded.

Thanks in advance,

Bob

[mia389]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

mia389,

Appreciate the feedback.



I must be misinterpreting what your "7,200lbs" figure represents (TT axle weights ?, yellow sticker UVW ?) ....., what was the "gross weight" of your TT with your 980lb loaded tongue weight?

With 2019 29BH's as-shipped UVW's around 7,300lbs, I'm trying to figure how you ended up with 1,300lbs of additional cargo capacity available when fully loaded.

Thanks in advance,

Bob

Good catch! I was at 8200lbs not the 7200lbs I had typed. That through all my math off. I had only 300lbs available. 12% was on the tongue. My trailer UVW is around 7300lbs. 8200lbs I had the 980TW.

[Texdan25]

Originally Posted by Rustic Eagle

Interesting the 'loaded' 875lb reading is only 125lbs over the 29BH's published dry hitch weight.

Just curious, was the slide extended when the tongue was weighed ?..., I ask because an extended slide almost always gives a lighter tongue weight reading than a retracted slide. I found that out using my Sherline tongue weight scale on my retired Eagle TT, and was about where my tongue weight went compared to a prior CAT scale reading. I closed my slide and the Sherline added another 200lbs.

Bob

So I could just tow the 29BH with the slide out and use my existing 1000# E2 WHD right Bob?

[mia389]

I use 1000lb bars on my BlueOx Sway Pro. I have never experienced the "bounce" yet. I have put many miles on and love the Blue Ox. It keeps the trailer where its suppose to be. I am pulling alot of trailer for a 1/2 ton but it does great.

I definitely feel sway when I pull it without the Blue Ox. I have pulled it to storage a few times without hooking up WDH and its a night and day difference above 40mph.

The one thing that is constant!

[Rustic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Texdan25

So I could just tow the 29BH with the slide out and use my existing 1000# E2 WHD right Bob?

That might just work......., let me know the route you're taking so I can get a video

Bob

[Rustic Eagle]

mia389,

Originally Posted by mia389

Good catch! I was at 8200lbs not the 7200lbs I had typed....snip

Thanks for the clarification

Bob